5 ms·

Gut Wars: One Man's Adventure with Antibiotics and Ulcerative Colitis

60 points by accarmichael 11y ago

Shivetya 11y ago
I can sympathize with him. While my issues didn't get as far as his, my issue resulted from taking Cipro which killed all the good bacteria in my gut making room for something else to move in. Sadly what moved in was related to dogs feces as I have a pair and you don't have to see it to get contaminated. End result, new drugs to wipe out the bad then a few months with specific medications and kefir and related food products to rebuild the bacteria in my gut. It is no fun planning any drive, even to work, where the primary issue is knowing who is open and has public bathrooms
- partisan 11y ago
  Reading this makes me feel really fortunate. I had a bout with colitis, but the doctor prescribed me Cipro and it went away with no other side effects. As an aside, even talking to the doctor made me immediately feel better. Being a pessimist, I assumed the worst and was already planning out my will. This doctor, who looked like Gene Simmons, asked me how many days off I wanted from work, and told me "You gotta take it easy, bro" with a jerky boys accent, he completely snapped me out of whatever I was going through with his amazing personality.
stevebot 11y ago
Any recommendations for probiotics? I've tried a couple with no luck myself.
- cpncrunch 11y ago
  I think you are better concentrating on natural prebiotics, by eating lots of fruit and vegetables. Apples in particular are meant to have very good prebiotic properties.
  - stevebot 11y ago
    Thanks, and I do love apples. Any good literature that you have read on the topic? I'm interested in changing to a more probiotic friendly diet.
    - cpncrunch 11y ago
      There is this study: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140929181156.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140929181156.ht... Although it is looking into obesity, they did find that apples restored abnormal microbiota. I suffer from mild IBS myself, and find that eating an apple a day seems to help (although it's impossible to know for sure without doing a double-blind trial on myself).
- d357r0y3r 11y ago
  Sauerkraut is a good option if you like actual food.
  - stevebot 11y ago
    I love Sauerkraut on a good sausage. Do you actually eat it on it's own?
    - s_baby 11y ago
      Pretty good as a side dish.
    - cdcarter 11y ago
      A beet/cabbage mixture sauerkraut is DELICIOUS to eat on it's own.
  - jlangenauer 11y ago
    And if you've never made, and eaten, homemade sauerkraut, then let me tell you: you're missing out.
- pkaye 11y ago
  I had good experience with the Trader Joe's Milk Kefir.
- chez17 11y ago
  I would first do some research on probiotics. From what I've seen, the only proven benefit came using them ina very certain situation which I forget completely (it was something like it helped clear up diarrhea after an antibiotic quicker or something like that). My point is they aren't cheap and you could simply be wasting money. I'm honestly not informed enough either way, but when I looked into them a few years ago, there was little to no proven benefits of using them.
  - cdcarter 11y ago
    Well, since TFA is specifically about post-antibiotics gut problems, the commenter is in a good place to be asking for information.
- rebootthesystem 11y ago
  I've used this in the past: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SXBWDOY http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SXBWDOY Seems to work. My wife uses it regularly. Just a couple of data points for what it's worth.
- bjterry 11y ago
  I like General Biotics[1]. It has 115 strains which is an order of magnitude more than any other supplement. One of the founders is a researcher in the field published in all the big name journals. They don't make claims that can't be scientifically supported, unlike most health supplement companies. Highly recommended. 1: http://www.generalbiotics.com/ http://www.generalbiotics.com/
a8da6b0c91d 11y ago
The obvious importance of gut bacteria is the health-news flavor of the month, but I don't know. There are definitely two sides to this debate. On the other side some very smart people with nothing to sell (probiotics/prebiotics/tests) argue for a relatively sterile gut. They say feeding gut bacteria with fermentable fibers/starches in general generates LPS and other stressful toxins. Some lab experiments definitely bear out this idea. Animals with sterilized guts fed sterile diets live way longer, and are stronger/healthier. Like I said I don't know, but I advise extreme caution on this stuff where there's any tangential connection to probiotics/prebiotics/tests.
- themoonbus 11y ago
  Can you point to any of those smart people who argue for a sterile gut? I have honestly never heard that, and I've been following news / research (on a surface level) for a couple years.
  - Chinjut 11y ago
    I would also like to know what that was in reference to. Talk about vague, unspecified "toxins" tends to trigger skepticism on my part (but I suppose "LPS" is something specific I know nothing about)...
- ubiologist 11y ago
  Disclosure: I work for a microbiome biotech company. I have no connection to ubiome. I'm sure this commenter means well but this person is severely misinformed. Any person with even a minimal understanding of our gut microbiome would never argue for a relatively sterile gut. We rely on out gut bacteria to digest foods and there is a healthy, normal exchange of metabolites between the microbes and our bodies. Microbes digest foods such as fiber and starches into (for example) short-chain fatty acids that have been shown to have beneficial effects on our bodies. They also prime our immune system so that we are better prepared to combat invasion of potential pathogens. LPS is a necessary component of all gram negative bacteria. Many of our commensal bacteria are gram negatives. The problem with LPS is when it gets to places where it shouldn't be (e.g. crossing our gut epithelial barrier). Some labs utilize germ-free mice to investigate the causative role of the microbiome on the host. While these animal models can serve as great systems in which to investigate certain hypotheses, every germ-free model researcher would no doubt agree that the immune system of germ-free animals is completely different and severely compromised compared to a normal, conventional animal. They, in fact, do NOT live longer and are NOT stronger/healthier. I felt that the above comment needed to be rectified before people starting actually believing it.
mullingitover 11y ago
Wouldn't this be a great case for fecal transplant? I have to wonder how effective oral probiotics can really be, give that the oral route includes an acid bath on the way to the intestines. Seems that a fecal transplant would get the desired results near-instantly.
jivardo_nucci 11y ago
Looks like a candidate for a fecal transplant: http://www.mayoclinic.org/medical-professionals/clinical-updates/digestive-diseases/quick-inexpensive-90-percent-cure-rate http://www.mayoclinic.org/medical-professionals/clinical-upd... Most facilities do it the fancy way (use a tube down the nose or up the rear), run tests and, as usual, charge you and your donor out the a! But I've read of DIY'ers who simply spun out the solids, held their nose and swilled the goods(I suppose a real man would use a spoon) or took them in an enema: http://blogs.plos.org/publichealth/2013/05/29/why-diy-fecal-transplants-are-a-thing-and-the-fda-is-only-part-of-the-reason/ http://blogs.plos.org/publichealth/2013/05/29/why-diy-fecal-... http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27503660 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27503660 Either way it works. "Compatible" donor? Healthy family member(s). As the author of the article notes, probiotics can't possibly match the variety of organisms that a typical human has in their gut. Business proposal: a repository where people deposit feces prior to taking strong antibiotics, so that, should they find themselves consequently absent intestinal flora and fauna, those could easily be restored. Kind of a new twist on the old curse "Eat shit and die!"
- noonespecial 11y ago
  Talk about making a "back up". The possible vowel deficient start-up names for this alone are amusing me greatly.
tapia 11y ago
I'm always happy to read this kind of articles. I have a history with C. ulcerosa myself (now under control) and since it begun my gut just hasn't been the same. I am pretty sure my microbiota was left in a very bad shape after some hard periods, and since then I have tried to bring it back to balance... but it seems a hard task. I haven't tried probiotic supplements, like described in the article, but just tried to include probiotic-rich food in my diet, like yogurt and sauerkraut, and also prebiotics like bananas and honey. So it would be just great to get exactly the combination of probiotics-supplements that one needs, based on this kind of uBiome test, and then just wait until you have a balanced microbiota again. But for what the article describes, we would have to wait a bit until the real effects of each particular probiotics-combination are understood.
- sunsu 11y ago
  I recommend General Biotics: http://www.generalbiotics.com http://www.generalbiotics.com David frequents HN (which is how I found it) and he even took the time to personally answer questions for me via email. There is no probiotic on the market like it and it is based on real science.
  - tapia 11y ago
    Wow, thanks! It looks very interesting. I had never heard of it :)
JoshTko 11y ago
I think a key component often missing in these discussions is creating a habitat where good gut bacteria can thrive. This article identifies having fiber a critical to maintaining good gut bacteria. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fiber-famished-gut-microbes-linked-to-poor-health1/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fiber-famished-gut...
junto 11y ago
Since this isn't the first time UC has come up on HN (are programmers more prevalent maybe?), may I ask for a quick show of hands of people that have UC or had UC and if you've managed to beat it then how? Me, I've had UC since 2012. I take Pentasa 2mg granulated mesalazine per day. I am an ex-smoker and internalize stress. My UC is definitely exacerbated by poor sleep and high stress. Antibiotics were also what started me off on this horrible disease. I'd love to get rid of it.

60 points by accarmichael 11y ago

I can sympathize with him. While my issues didn't get as far as his, my issue resulted from taking Cipro which killed all the good bacteria in my gut making room for something else to move in. Sadly what moved in was related to dogs feces as I have a pair and you don't have to see it to get contaminated. End result, new drugs to wipe out the bad then a few months with specific medications and kefir and related food products to rebuild the bacteria in my gut. It is no fun planning any drive, even to work, where the primary issue is knowing who is open and has public bathrooms

partisan 11y ago
Reading this makes me feel really fortunate. I had a bout with colitis, but the doctor prescribed me Cipro and it went away with no other side effects. As an aside, even talking to the doctor made me immediately feel better. Being a pessimist, I assumed the worst and was already planning out my will. This doctor, who looked like Gene Simmons, asked me how many days off I wanted from work, and told me "You gotta take it easy, bro" with a jerky boys accent, he completely snapped me out of whatever I was going through with his amazing personality.

stevebot 11y ago

Any recommendations for probiotics? I've tried a couple with no luck myself.

cpncrunch 11y ago
I think you are better concentrating on natural prebiotics, by eating lots of fruit and vegetables. Apples in particular are meant to have very good prebiotic properties.
- stevebot 11y ago
  Thanks, and I do love apples. Any good literature that you have read on the topic? I'm interested in changing to a more probiotic friendly diet.
  - cpncrunch 11y ago
    There is this study: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140929181156.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140929181156.ht... Although it is looking into obesity, they did find that apples restored abnormal microbiota. I suffer from mild IBS myself, and find that eating an apple a day seems to help (although it's impossible to know for sure without doing a double-blind trial on myself).
d357r0y3r 11y ago
Sauerkraut is a good option if you like actual food.
- stevebot 11y ago
  I love Sauerkraut on a good sausage. Do you actually eat it on it's own?
  - s_baby 11y ago
    Pretty good as a side dish.
  - cdcarter 11y ago
    A beet/cabbage mixture sauerkraut is DELICIOUS to eat on it's own.
- jlangenauer 11y ago
  And if you've never made, and eaten, homemade sauerkraut, then let me tell you: you're missing out.
pkaye 11y ago
I had good experience with the Trader Joe's Milk Kefir.
chez17 11y ago
I would first do some research on probiotics. From what I've seen, the only proven benefit came using them ina very certain situation which I forget completely (it was something like it helped clear up diarrhea after an antibiotic quicker or something like that). My point is they aren't cheap and you could simply be wasting money. I'm honestly not informed enough either way, but when I looked into them a few years ago, there was little to no proven benefits of using them.
- cdcarter 11y ago
  Well, since TFA is specifically about post-antibiotics gut problems, the commenter is in a good place to be asking for information.
rebootthesystem 11y ago
I've used this in the past: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SXBWDOY http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SXBWDOY Seems to work. My wife uses it regularly. Just a couple of data points for what it's worth.
bjterry 11y ago
I like General Biotics[1]. It has 115 strains which is an order of magnitude more than any other supplement. One of the founders is a researcher in the field published in all the big name journals. They don't make claims that can't be scientifically supported, unlike most health supplement companies. Highly recommended. 1: http://www.generalbiotics.com/ http://www.generalbiotics.com/

a8da6b0c91d 11y ago

The obvious importance of gut bacteria is the health-news flavor of the month, but I don't know. There are definitely two sides to this debate. On the other side some very smart people with nothing to sell (probiotics/prebiotics/tests) argue for a relatively sterile gut. They say feeding gut bacteria with fermentable fibers/starches in general generates LPS and other stressful toxins. Some lab experiments definitely bear out this idea. Animals with sterilized guts fed sterile diets live way longer, and are stronger/healthier. Like I said I don't know, but I advise extreme caution on this stuff where there's any tangential connection to probiotics/prebiotics/tests.

themoonbus 11y ago
Can you point to any of those smart people who argue for a sterile gut? I have honestly never heard that, and I've been following news / research (on a surface level) for a couple years.
- Chinjut 11y ago
  I would also like to know what that was in reference to. Talk about vague, unspecified "toxins" tends to trigger skepticism on my part (but I suppose "LPS" is something specific I know nothing about)...
ubiologist 11y ago
Disclosure: I work for a microbiome biotech company. I have no connection to ubiome. I'm sure this commenter means well but this person is severely misinformed. Any person with even a minimal understanding of our gut microbiome would never argue for a relatively sterile gut. We rely on out gut bacteria to digest foods and there is a healthy, normal exchange of metabolites between the microbes and our bodies. Microbes digest foods such as fiber and starches into (for example) short-chain fatty acids that have been shown to have beneficial effects on our bodies. They also prime our immune system so that we are better prepared to combat invasion of potential pathogens. LPS is a necessary component of all gram negative bacteria. Many of our commensal bacteria are gram negatives. The problem with LPS is when it gets to places where it shouldn't be (e.g. crossing our gut epithelial barrier). Some labs utilize germ-free mice to investigate the causative role of the microbiome on the host. While these animal models can serve as great systems in which to investigate certain hypotheses, every germ-free model researcher would no doubt agree that the immune system of germ-free animals is completely different and severely compromised compared to a normal, conventional animal. They, in fact, do NOT live longer and are NOT stronger/healthier. I felt that the above comment needed to be rectified before people starting actually believing it.

mullingitover 11y ago

Wouldn't this be a great case for fecal transplant? I have to wonder how effective oral probiotics can really be, give that the oral route includes an acid bath on the way to the intestines. Seems that a fecal transplant would get the desired results near-instantly.

jivardo_nucci 11y ago

Looks like a candidate for a fecal transplant: http://www.mayoclinic.org/medical-professionals/clinical-updates/digestive-diseases/quick-inexpensive-90-percent-cure-rate http://www.mayoclinic.org/medical-professionals/clinical-upd... Most facilities do it the fancy way (use a tube down the nose or up the rear), run tests and, as usual, charge you and your donor out the a! But I've read of DIY'ers who simply spun out the solids, held their nose and swilled the goods(I suppose a real man would use a spoon) or took them in an enema: http://blogs.plos.org/publichealth/2013/05/29/why-diy-fecal-transplants-are-a-thing-and-the-fda-is-only-part-of-the-reason/ http://blogs.plos.org/publichealth/2013/05/29/why-diy-fecal-... http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27503660 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27503660 Either way it works. "Compatible" donor? Healthy family member(s). As the author of the article notes, probiotics can't possibly match the variety of organisms that a typical human has in their gut. Business proposal: a repository where people deposit feces prior to taking strong antibiotics, so that, should they find themselves consequently absent intestinal flora and fauna, those could easily be restored. Kind of a new twist on the old curse "Eat shit and die!"

noonespecial 11y ago
Talk about making a "back up". The possible vowel deficient start-up names for this alone are amusing me greatly.

tapia 11y ago

I'm always happy to read this kind of articles. I have a history with C. ulcerosa myself (now under control) and since it begun my gut just hasn't been the same. I am pretty sure my microbiota was left in a very bad shape after some hard periods, and since then I have tried to bring it back to balance... but it seems a hard task. I haven't tried probiotic supplements, like described in the article, but just tried to include probiotic-rich food in my diet, like yogurt and sauerkraut, and also prebiotics like bananas and honey. So it would be just great to get exactly the combination of probiotics-supplements that one needs, based on this kind of uBiome test, and then just wait until you have a balanced microbiota again. But for what the article describes, we would have to wait a bit until the real effects of each particular probiotics-combination are understood.

sunsu 11y ago
I recommend General Biotics: http://www.generalbiotics.com http://www.generalbiotics.com David frequents HN (which is how I found it) and he even took the time to personally answer questions for me via email. There is no probiotic on the market like it and it is based on real science.
- tapia 11y ago
  Wow, thanks! It looks very interesting. I had never heard of it :)

JoshTko 11y ago

I think a key component often missing in these discussions is creating a habitat where good gut bacteria can thrive. This article identifies having fiber a critical to maintaining good gut bacteria. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fiber-famished-gut-microbes-linked-to-poor-health1/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fiber-famished-gut...

junto 11y ago

Since this isn't the first time UC has come up on HN (are programmers more prevalent maybe?), may I ask for a quick show of hands of people that have UC or had UC and if you've managed to beat it then how? Me, I've had UC since 2012. I take Pentasa 2mg granulated mesalazine per day. I am an ex-smoker and internalize stress. My UC is definitely exacerbated by poor sleep and high stress. Antibiotics were also what started me off on this horrible disease. I'd love to get rid of it.