5 ms·

Love seeing that American flag on the side of American spacecraft. This is truly a land of freedom, technological innovation, and unprecedented human happiness.

by javert 11y ago

Love seeing that American flag on the side of American spacecraft. This is truly a land of freedom, technological innovation, and unprecedented human happiness. A few people alive today have forgotten that, but most people alive today have never known it. edit: HN, I just typed a long response to a comment below but can't post it becuase I'm "submitting too fast." Cut the crap and tell me about that before I write a long comment.

ISL 11y ago
Most Americans take our assets and advantages for granted, as we've not known anything else. There are a number of good places to live in the world, and the United States is one of them.
- javert 11y ago
  I wouldn't even say that. By "land of freedom," I really meant in the past and in essence, but not in practice today. The spirit is still there, that's all. Tell me a place in the world where I can live without being treated, in principle, like a sacrificial animal, and I'll tell you it's good to live there.
  - lotsofmangos 11y ago
    You're not talking of the past, you're confusing dream with memory.
- kolev 11y ago
  You really think so? I personally think the US is going downhill recently with the violation of basic human rights (NSA, police brutality, arm-twisting to please minorities, etc.) Corporate interest (Monsanto, fracking, military complex, law firms, etc.) is above people's, conflicts are still stirred around the globe and military aggression is still ongoing. Innocent people are killed by drones abroad and others labeled as "terrorists" assassinated without trials. Saudi Arabia and Qatar are allies. UN is often ignored. Cold War 2.0 is being brewed as 1.0 was fun and profit. As a First World country with such bold claims, many basics need to be taken care of before this baseless patriotism. My hopes were in Ron Paul, but this great American will never be let make the much-needed changes to truly justify the "democracy" label!
  - adventured 11y ago
    Police brutality has gone down significantly over 40 years. The rate at which police kill black people has dropped by between 50% and 75% over 40 years, depending on the age group. The rate of police killing all other races, hasn't changed in 40 years (as in, it hasn't gotten any worse). What you're seeing are actions by the police that would have previously gone unreported, or otherwise not been widely exposed to a large population via eg social media. Obviously the NSA reference is spot on. As would have been a point about incarceration and SWAT deployments. It's also worth noting that the war on drugs is finally beginning to end. That is an improvement, and will lead to less police brutality almost by default as pot is fully legalized across the US, and other drugs start to be de-criminalized in favor of treatment. Corporations are far more regulated and controlled today than they were as recently as the 1960s or 1970s. The EPA didn't even exist until 1970. If you think corporate interests are running rampant today, you really would have hated the first 150 years of US corporate history. And of course the US has been militarily aggressive since WW2, with Korea and Vietnam being larger military actions than Afghanistan and Iraq. Not much has actually changed there in 70 years.
    - kolev 11y ago
      Well, I'm sure there are improvements, but the status quo is not good enough for me personally - it's 2015. It doesn't serve America best to say "we're great, there's no better". On the contrary, we should always strive to improve, and avoid the patriotic circle jerks.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
alexhawdon 11y ago
Although I'm no hater of the good old USA, this is a little self-congratulatory. You're certainly technological leaders in most fields for the understandable reasons of wealth, size and necessity (military driving cutting-edge research in order to maintain position as the dominant world superpower). But I'm afraid the 'unprecedented human happiness' you cite is only readily available to an elite few. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/23/swiss-reign-supreme-in-world-happiness-ranks http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/23/swiss-reign-sup...
- javert 11y ago
  > You're certainly technological leaders in most fields for the understandable reasons of wealth, size and necessity This ignores the history of capitalism, which is more important than the factors you mention. And capitalism was a philosophical and legal development. > But I'm afraid the 'unprecedented human happiness' you cite is only readily available to an elite few. That's just not true. The American sense of life is a happy one, unlike the British or continental European sense of nausea, dread, anti-semitism, nationalism, requiring one's brother to be one's keeper, and so on. Unfortunately I think the American sense of life is mostly gone in the east coast cities.
  - josai 11y ago
    > unlike the British or continental European sense of nausea, dread, anti-semitism, nationalism, requiring one's brother to be one's keeper, and so on What utter nonsense.
    - javert 11y ago
      It's not nonsense. The latest case is trying to completely fuck over Google just 'cause. Oh, here's another one: Tall poppy syndrome. That unspeakable evil is not present in the U.S. I was horrified to hear about it.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
cromwellian 11y ago
http://youtu.be/BJWKccHQFOA?t=189 http://youtu.be/BJWKccHQFOA?t=189 I'll grant you that culturally and regulatory wise, there are advantages to certain regions in the US. Some of those features are shared in parts of Canada, UK, Australia and other Commonwealth culture countries, where a view of entrepreneurship, risk, and ambition seems to differ with that of say, some continental Europe cultures. But I'd also include China, a politically unfree country in that last, in the sense that, despite "Communism", the country has many regions of wild west of wide eye entrepreneurs and greed. Like Obama said, you may believe in American Exceptionalism like the British believe in British Exceptionalism, or the French believe in Francophone Exceptionalism, but it's not unique. Canada's not really less free than the US for example. And unprecedented human happiness? Really, with the events of Baltimore (my hometown) going on, you can say this with a straight face? We live in an amazing amazing time that entrepreneurs can now do what only nation states did in the past. But our current situation is a precarious thing, and rather than be rah-rah about freedom and human happiness, we need to be worried about the environment and a breakdown in our social structure that might be fueled by such amazing abilities. Automation, software, robotics, et al, are starting to devalue labor, but we have not evolved politically or socially to deal with perhaps, the decline of work itself, as a focus of human self worth or well being.
- happyscrappy 11y ago
  >with the events of Baltimore Those rioters are thugs trashing their own neighborhood for a laugh. SJWs will pretend it is about poverty but blacks who live there understand exactly what is happening and were even trying to protect the police who are majority black.
  - lotsofmangos 11y ago
    You should probably go read David Simon's take on it. It is brilliant and depressing and might provide you with some of the nuance you are evidently lacking. - http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/david-simon-talks-about-where-the-baltimore-police-went-wrong-429 http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/david-simon-talks-about-where...
AnimalMuppet 11y ago
> HN, I just typed a long response to a comment below but can't post it becuase I'm "submitting too fast." Cut the crap and tell me about that before I write a long comment. Use the back button to get back to the page you posted it from. The text is still there in the text window. Copy it. That is, the text is probably there. HN seems to be better at preserving it than many other sites, but I don't guarantee that this will work.
- javert 11y ago
  Thanks, but I know that. It's just that I want to write a comment, post it, and move on. I don't want to go back, leave the tab open, and have to remember to try again in 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, and so on. Today, I actually did the dishes and the laundry, and still could not post the long post I was referring to, so I just closed the tab (gave up). At that point, you either close the tab, or you put it on your todo list, and I am not going to clutter up my todo list with stuff like that.

by javert 11y ago

ISL 11y ago

Most Americans take our assets and advantages for granted, as we've not known anything else. There are a number of good places to live in the world, and the United States is one of them.

javert 11y ago
I wouldn't even say that. By "land of freedom," I really meant in the past and in essence, but not in practice today. The spirit is still there, that's all. Tell me a place in the world where I can live without being treated, in principle, like a sacrificial animal, and I'll tell you it's good to live there.
- lotsofmangos 11y ago
  You're not talking of the past, you're confusing dream with memory.
kolev 11y ago
You really think so? I personally think the US is going downhill recently with the violation of basic human rights (NSA, police brutality, arm-twisting to please minorities, etc.) Corporate interest (Monsanto, fracking, military complex, law firms, etc.) is above people's, conflicts are still stirred around the globe and military aggression is still ongoing. Innocent people are killed by drones abroad and others labeled as "terrorists" assassinated without trials. Saudi Arabia and Qatar are allies. UN is often ignored. Cold War 2.0 is being brewed as 1.0 was fun and profit. As a First World country with such bold claims, many basics need to be taken care of before this baseless patriotism. My hopes were in Ron Paul, but this great American will never be let make the much-needed changes to truly justify the "democracy" label!
- adventured 11y ago
  Police brutality has gone down significantly over 40 years. The rate at which police kill black people has dropped by between 50% and 75% over 40 years, depending on the age group. The rate of police killing all other races, hasn't changed in 40 years (as in, it hasn't gotten any worse). What you're seeing are actions by the police that would have previously gone unreported, or otherwise not been widely exposed to a large population via eg social media. Obviously the NSA reference is spot on. As would have been a point about incarceration and SWAT deployments. It's also worth noting that the war on drugs is finally beginning to end. That is an improvement, and will lead to less police brutality almost by default as pot is fully legalized across the US, and other drugs start to be de-criminalized in favor of treatment. Corporations are far more regulated and controlled today than they were as recently as the 1960s or 1970s. The EPA didn't even exist until 1970. If you think corporate interests are running rampant today, you really would have hated the first 150 years of US corporate history. And of course the US has been militarily aggressive since WW2, with Korea and Vietnam being larger military actions than Afghanistan and Iraq. Not much has actually changed there in 70 years.
  - kolev 11y ago
    Well, I'm sure there are improvements, but the status quo is not good enough for me personally - it's 2015. It doesn't serve America best to say "we're great, there's no better". On the contrary, we should always strive to improve, and avoid the patriotic circle jerks.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]

alexhawdon 11y ago

Although I'm no hater of the good old USA, this is a little self-congratulatory. You're certainly technological leaders in most fields for the understandable reasons of wealth, size and necessity (military driving cutting-edge research in order to maintain position as the dominant world superpower). But I'm afraid the 'unprecedented human happiness' you cite is only readily available to an elite few. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/23/swiss-reign-supreme-in-world-happiness-ranks http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/23/swiss-reign-sup...

javert 11y ago
> You're certainly technological leaders in most fields for the understandable reasons of wealth, size and necessity This ignores the history of capitalism, which is more important than the factors you mention. And capitalism was a philosophical and legal development. > But I'm afraid the 'unprecedented human happiness' you cite is only readily available to an elite few. That's just not true. The American sense of life is a happy one, unlike the British or continental European sense of nausea, dread, anti-semitism, nationalism, requiring one's brother to be one's keeper, and so on. Unfortunately I think the American sense of life is mostly gone in the east coast cities.
- josai 11y ago
  > unlike the British or continental European sense of nausea, dread, anti-semitism, nationalism, requiring one's brother to be one's keeper, and so on What utter nonsense.
  - javert 11y ago
    It's not nonsense. The latest case is trying to completely fuck over Google just 'cause. Oh, here's another one: Tall poppy syndrome. That unspeakable evil is not present in the U.S. I was horrified to hear about it.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]

cromwellian 11y ago

http://youtu.be/BJWKccHQFOA?t=189 http://youtu.be/BJWKccHQFOA?t=189 I'll grant you that culturally and regulatory wise, there are advantages to certain regions in the US. Some of those features are shared in parts of Canada, UK, Australia and other Commonwealth culture countries, where a view of entrepreneurship, risk, and ambition seems to differ with that of say, some continental Europe cultures. But I'd also include China, a politically unfree country in that last, in the sense that, despite "Communism", the country has many regions of wild west of wide eye entrepreneurs and greed. Like Obama said, you may believe in American Exceptionalism like the British believe in British Exceptionalism, or the French believe in Francophone Exceptionalism, but it's not unique. Canada's not really less free than the US for example. And unprecedented human happiness? Really, with the events of Baltimore (my hometown) going on, you can say this with a straight face? We live in an amazing amazing time that entrepreneurs can now do what only nation states did in the past. But our current situation is a precarious thing, and rather than be rah-rah about freedom and human happiness, we need to be worried about the environment and a breakdown in our social structure that might be fueled by such amazing abilities. Automation, software, robotics, et al, are starting to devalue labor, but we have not evolved politically or socially to deal with perhaps, the decline of work itself, as a focus of human self worth or well being.

happyscrappy 11y ago
>with the events of Baltimore Those rioters are thugs trashing their own neighborhood for a laugh. SJWs will pretend it is about poverty but blacks who live there understand exactly what is happening and were even trying to protect the police who are majority black.
- lotsofmangos 11y ago
  You should probably go read David Simon's take on it. It is brilliant and depressing and might provide you with some of the nuance you are evidently lacking. - http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/david-simon-talks-about-where-the-baltimore-police-went-wrong-429 http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/david-simon-talks-about-where...

AnimalMuppet 11y ago

> HN, I just typed a long response to a comment below but can't post it becuase I'm "submitting too fast." Cut the crap and tell me about that before I write a long comment. Use the back button to get back to the page you posted it from. The text is still there in the text window. Copy it. That is, the text is probably there. HN seems to be better at preserving it than many other sites, but I don't guarantee that this will work.

javert 11y ago
Thanks, but I know that. It's just that I want to write a comment, post it, and move on. I don't want to go back, leave the tab open, and have to remember to try again in 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, and so on. Today, I actually did the dishes and the laundry, and still could not post the long post I was referring to, so I just closed the tab (gave up). At that point, you either close the tab, or you put it on your todo list, and I am not going to clutter up my todo list with stuff like that.