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Government grows with GDP because people want more services, less crime, less poverty, and stuff like that; there is a reason libertarians can't get elected. T

Government grows with GDP because people want more services, less crime, less poverty, and stuff like that; there is a reason libertarians can't get elected. There is no reason for that stuff to grow with (real) GDP, unless you define "poverty" as a relative quantity. It doesn't cost more (in real $) to provide someone with housing and food simply because other people also consume caviar (which raises GDP). It doesn't cost more to put someone in jail simply because other people have an XBox. That stuff would grow linearly with population, however, unlike research. Research doesn't grow because 1 scientist can make 1 discovery which then works for either 10 people or 10B people. And really, why not spend additional GDP on public R&D? Concretely speaking - the population increases from 150M to 300M and that population now enjoys XBoxes, MRIs, restaurant meals and larger houses. Why have the number of feasible research projects suddenly quadrupled? Why should there be a relation between restaurant meals and research projects?

seanmcdirmid 12y ago
> Concretely speaking - the population increases from 150M to 300M and that population now enjoys XBoxes, MRIs, restaurant meals and larger houses. Why have the number of feasible research projects suddenly quadrupled? Why should there be a relation between restaurant meals and research projects? Those Xboxes and MRIs came from research. Tomorrow they probably want holodecks and cures for cancers (selfish peasants!). > Why should there be a relation between restaurant meals and research projects? Future GDP growth depends on basic research, and so vice versa.
- yummyfajitas 12y ago
  If the population doubles, why do holodecks require 2x as many resources to invent? Alternately, if Keynesian stimulus or welfare reform causes Americans to return to the workforce and raises GDP, why do holodecks require 2x as many resources to invent? That's the core question which you are ducking. No one, least of all me, disputes that research is useful - that's all you've actually argued. I'm merely disputing your assertion of a linear scaling law between GDP and the funds needed for research, and you haven't provided an argument why such a law would exist.
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    > If the population doubles, why do holodecks require 2x as many resources to invent? If the population doubles, what are those people going to do with all their time? Fast food check out? Speculation and day trading? > I'm merely disputing your assertion of a linear scaling law between GDP and the funds needed for research, and you haven't provided an argument why such a law would exist. Society has to do something with its resources. We've been investing in R&D since at least the neolithic revolution, increasingly more so as our populations increase. I don't see a good reason why that should stop, so .... > That's the core question which you are ducking. Our technology increases faster as our population increases. We'll get holodecks sooner if we have 2X resources to spend on it, and it would be nice to have them before I'm dead. It is quite nice to have a civil debate about these things.

seanmcdirmid 12y ago

> Concretely speaking - the population increases from 150M to 300M and that population now enjoys XBoxes, MRIs, restaurant meals and larger houses. Why have the number of feasible research projects suddenly quadrupled? Why should there be a relation between restaurant meals and research projects? Those Xboxes and MRIs came from research. Tomorrow they probably want holodecks and cures for cancers (selfish peasants!). > Why should there be a relation between restaurant meals and research projects? Future GDP growth depends on basic research, and so vice versa.

yummyfajitas 12y ago
If the population doubles, why do holodecks require 2x as many resources to invent? Alternately, if Keynesian stimulus or welfare reform causes Americans to return to the workforce and raises GDP, why do holodecks require 2x as many resources to invent? That's the core question which you are ducking. No one, least of all me, disputes that research is useful - that's all you've actually argued. I'm merely disputing your assertion of a linear scaling law between GDP and the funds needed for research, and you haven't provided an argument why such a law would exist.
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  > If the population doubles, why do holodecks require 2x as many resources to invent? If the population doubles, what are those people going to do with all their time? Fast food check out? Speculation and day trading? > I'm merely disputing your assertion of a linear scaling law between GDP and the funds needed for research, and you haven't provided an argument why such a law would exist. Society has to do something with its resources. We've been investing in R&D since at least the neolithic revolution, increasingly more so as our populations increase. I don't see a good reason why that should stop, so .... > That's the core question which you are ducking. Our technology increases faster as our population increases. We'll get holodecks sooner if we have 2X resources to spend on it, and it would be nice to have them before I'm dead. It is quite nice to have a civil debate about these things.