9 ms·

Apes reveal secrets to good sleep

32 points by romefort 11y ago

leaveyou 11y ago
Nowhere in this article are any secrets revealed. It's the second article from BBC with misleading title this week. I will avoid next time.
- paublyrne 11y ago
  It says the secret is that they lie down, whereas monkeys do not, and - consequently - do not sleep as well.
  - logfromblammo 11y ago
    What a cunningly well-hidden secret! I shall attempt it myself at my earliest opportunity! But wait! Surely there are multiple possible orientations and degrees of freedom for a horizontal human body? Even collapsing left-right symmetries, there is still a half-circle of potential orientations between supine and prone. And even that ignores the multiple possible limb orientations. Obviously, more research is required. Also, if the monkeys sleep lightly for fear of predators, I wonder how thoroughly the researchers disguised the human presence for the monkeys held in captivity. Both chimpanzees and humans are, after all, known predators of monkeys.
    - sitkack 11y ago
      I'd put dress clothes on monkeys and send them coach to the other coast where they are to give a presentation to other monkeys on how best to convince a third set of monkeys to buy brand x bananas. And if they do sleep, it will definitely be sitting upright.
- bryanlarsen 11y ago
  It's standard science reporting. Science rarely gives a firm answer; firm answers in science reporting is usually a sign of bad reporting.
- cdelsolar 11y ago
  The article also misused "begging the question".
  - aptwebapps 11y ago
    We had this argument already. I think 'bane won, but you may disagree. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3592345 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3592345
mitchtbaum 11y ago
These people's reasoning strikes me as laughable (and sad too since it comes to us with elevated credibility): * deep, relaxed sleep helps us develop. * our relative apes also prefer deep, relaxed sleep. * each prepares a sleeping surface. * these sleeping platforms we [these researchers] have looked at must be what explains good sleep. ¶ How about what makes for a relaxed mind??.. Perhaps researching and writing stories about that would give better help for people to live well... and rest easy. ( Reminds me of a Harry Chapin quote from his grandfather, http://en.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Harry_Chapin&oldid=1657420 http://en.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Harry_Chapin&... ) --- While we focus on sleeping surfaces instead, two data points in my view seem to reflect well on exactly an opposite approach. I switched to sleeping primarily on my floor (cushioned with a blanket on expanded foam mats [hoping to upgrade to expanded silicone later]) and it feels wonderfully restorative. This biomechanics researcher has had similar results with her family and offers a rich theoretical frame, http://www.katysays.com/ http://www.katysays.com/ & Joe Rogan Experience #601 - Katy Bowman http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ub5OLNnN-o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ub5OLNnN-o . Humans who sleep in hammocks might also have an interesting take. _Sleep is sacred._ P.S. Given this meeting ground: As a human with access to modern-ish computing devices, I find that 'switching them off' makes a world of difference when "unwinding" (perhaps rewinding?). Keeping artificial lights out of my room where I sleep and letting my mind clear helps me relax. Alternatively, some nights I need some way to get notes out so I keep a comp with me, and I also can use a simple mp3 player with audio recording, easy button control, and and a near 1 sec resume recording delay.. I rarely transcode them... Onward to voice user interfaces!
- minikites 11y ago
  Thanks for linking to that quote, it's something I've been thinking about recently.
- jonah 11y ago
  Re your P.S.: There's a growing body of research[0] showing that the quality (color, etc.) in addition to quantity of light in your environment has profound effects on alertness and sleep. It sounds like you're doing the right thing by keeping light out of your sleeping environment. For the lights you do need, consider their spectrum and color temperature. [0] https://justgetflux.com/research.html https://justgetflux.com/research.html
ccvannorman 11y ago
great, they get "better" sleep, but what tests were done to measure the real world effects of this between the groups, other than "we think it was a factor in cognitive evolution"?
drzaiusapelord 11y ago
The scientists at Duke University aren't the most sophisticated around, but calling them apes seems a bit harsh.

32 points by romefort 11y ago

Nowhere in this article are any secrets revealed. It's the second article from BBC with misleading title this week. I will avoid next time.

paublyrne 11y ago
It says the secret is that they lie down, whereas monkeys do not, and - consequently - do not sleep as well.
- logfromblammo 11y ago
  What a cunningly well-hidden secret! I shall attempt it myself at my earliest opportunity! But wait! Surely there are multiple possible orientations and degrees of freedom for a horizontal human body? Even collapsing left-right symmetries, there is still a half-circle of potential orientations between supine and prone. And even that ignores the multiple possible limb orientations. Obviously, more research is required. Also, if the monkeys sleep lightly for fear of predators, I wonder how thoroughly the researchers disguised the human presence for the monkeys held in captivity. Both chimpanzees and humans are, after all, known predators of monkeys.
  - sitkack 11y ago
    I'd put dress clothes on monkeys and send them coach to the other coast where they are to give a presentation to other monkeys on how best to convince a third set of monkeys to buy brand x bananas. And if they do sleep, it will definitely be sitting upright.
bryanlarsen 11y ago
It's standard science reporting. Science rarely gives a firm answer; firm answers in science reporting is usually a sign of bad reporting.
cdelsolar 11y ago
The article also misused "begging the question".
- aptwebapps 11y ago
  We had this argument already. I think 'bane won, but you may disagree. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3592345 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3592345

mitchtbaum 11y ago

These people's reasoning strikes me as laughable (and sad too since it comes to us with elevated credibility): * deep, relaxed sleep helps us develop. * our relative apes also prefer deep, relaxed sleep. * each prepares a sleeping surface. * these sleeping platforms we [these researchers] have looked at must be what explains good sleep. ¶ How about what makes for a relaxed mind??.. Perhaps researching and writing stories about that would give better help for people to live well... and rest easy. ( Reminds me of a Harry Chapin quote from his grandfather, http://en.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Harry_Chapin&oldid=1657420 http://en.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Harry_Chapin&... ) --- While we focus on sleeping surfaces instead, two data points in my view seem to reflect well on exactly an opposite approach. I switched to sleeping primarily on my floor (cushioned with a blanket on expanded foam mats [hoping to upgrade to expanded silicone later]) and it feels wonderfully restorative. This biomechanics researcher has had similar results with her family and offers a rich theoretical frame, http://www.katysays.com/ http://www.katysays.com/ & Joe Rogan Experience #601 - Katy Bowman http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ub5OLNnN-o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ub5OLNnN-o . Humans who sleep in hammocks might also have an interesting take. _Sleep is sacred._ P.S. Given this meeting ground: As a human with access to modern-ish computing devices, I find that 'switching them off' makes a world of difference when "unwinding" (perhaps rewinding?). Keeping artificial lights out of my room where I sleep and letting my mind clear helps me relax. Alternatively, some nights I need some way to get notes out so I keep a comp with me, and I also can use a simple mp3 player with audio recording, easy button control, and and a near 1 sec resume recording delay.. I rarely transcode them... Onward to voice user interfaces!

minikites 11y ago
Thanks for linking to that quote, it's something I've been thinking about recently.
jonah 11y ago
Re your P.S.: There's a growing body of research[0] showing that the quality (color, etc.) in addition to quantity of light in your environment has profound effects on alertness and sleep. It sounds like you're doing the right thing by keeping light out of your sleeping environment. For the lights you do need, consider their spectrum and color temperature. [0] https://justgetflux.com/research.html https://justgetflux.com/research.html

ccvannorman 11y ago

great, they get "better" sleep, but what tests were done to measure the real world effects of this between the groups, other than "we think it was a factor in cognitive evolution"?

drzaiusapelord 11y ago

The scientists at Duke University aren't the most sophisticated around, but calling them apes seems a bit harsh.