4 ms·

"It costs roughly 10 times as much for a startup to provide health insurance for a person in their 50s with a family than it does for a single 20-something. (Ju

by timr 12y ago

"It costs roughly 10 times as much for a startup to provide health insurance for a person in their 50s with a family than it does for a single 20-something. (Just one more thing contributing to the rampant age discrimination in Silicon Valley.)" Maybe someday we'll get to the point where we realize that it's economically better for everyone to have single-payer health insurance in this country.

adaml_623 12y ago
I need to know is that 10 times $20 per month or 10 times $100 per month? What percentage of salary are we talking?
- metric10 12y ago
  Depending on the size of the engineer's family and the quality of the insurance, I'm sure you'll go over $1000 pretty easily. People don't realize that their employer pays most of their insurance. The 20-something probably costs $100/month for a high deductible HSA. Edit: I've only seen what it costs for me personally, a single engineer in my 30's and a non-smoker. It's around $200/month for the catastrophic coverage. I vaugely recall paying around $65/month in my 20's pre-ACA. I know there's a hockey stick, though, so I expect 2 adults in their 50's with 4 children would add up. Again, this is for an HSA high-deductible plan.
- bjwbell 12y ago
  10 times $100 I assume. I'm in my 20's and pay my health insurance myself, it's ~$250 per month for a high deductible plan.
- danbmil99 12y ago
  On what planet is insurance $20 a month that covers anything of value? 10X is a bit of an exaggeration, it's more like 4X. about 250 for a young single person up to over 1000 for a family. As a fiftysomething high-cost employee, I am aware of this in negotiation. May be illegal or immoral, but I can't blame potential employers for factoring this into the equation.
  - villa68o 12y ago
    I better understood now, why I have hard time to switch my job now. I am working at high visibility projects in a very big company: cloud computing, SDN/NFV, etc. I have a master degree in engineering and a MBA from fairly reputable universities. I had my professional engineer licenses in 10+ states before (I have not keep up with annual fee). And, I received 20+ some patents on wireless and devices for my company. But, I feel I am under used and under paid. The things they want me to do is too easy. My working life is easy for me, and I want to do battle. So, I am training myself with by finishing on 2-3 Coursea classes per year (math, ML, SNA,..), attending workshops and Meetups in the valley. I worked 10-12 per day for many years now. It works, I have fair knowledge on new areas and hands on development skill now. I get average 2-3 Linkedin head hunter requests per month for link or discussion job opportunities. I turned most of them down, because some of them too narrow scoped and I also do not want to embarrass myself: I gave my links/phone number to some, but they never call me back. I will be 69 years old in few months. It took me a little efforts to get here. No problem, I will create my own battle ground. I am not done yet.
  - adaml_623 12y ago
    A better question might be, "What country do you come from where you don't know how much health insurance in the US costs." But thank you for the numbers. An extra 9K a year doesn't really sound that much to pay for experience but I guess penny pinching is the order of the day for too many managers.
slackson 12y ago
Putting aside single-payer, what's the rationale for doing health insurance through employers, rather than individuals paying for it out of their income?
- jsaxton86 12y ago
  Taxation is a huge part of it. Employees don't have to pay taxes on the benefit. I think with the ACA, some small business can claim a tax credit for providing health insurance to their employees, but I'm not 100% sure about that part.
- metric10 12y ago
  It's a hold over from World War 2 wage controls. Offering to pay health insurance on the side got around them. It no doubt continues because of the pre-tax benefits. That is, if your employer pays for it then it isn't subject to federal and state income taxes as well as FICA taxes. Depending on your income level and state, those could be around as 30-35% at a programmer's salary range.
  - walshemj 12y ago
    I know someone who while working for Citbank was paying around 25% that just for his insurance (for him self his partners some FBI officer) - makes the UK's NI at 13.8% seem very good value.
- eleusive 12y ago
  For one, it reduces the effects of adverse selection[1]. The idea is that everyone reaps economic benefits through such programs, as an average company will have a pool of workers, some who are "healthy" although others may have medical problems. Compare this to a individuals wanting health insurance - if they're young and healthy they're less likely to want to pay much for insurance, which leaves older and sicker people to pay higher and higher premiums. Of course this is really only an issue with privatized insurance and is a great argument for having a single-payer solution. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_selection http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_selection
joncalhoun 12y ago
Do you have the source for the quote?
- timr 12y ago
  the linked post.

by timr 12y ago

adaml_623 12y ago

I need to know is that 10 times $20 per month or 10 times $100 per month? What percentage of salary are we talking?

metric10 12y ago
Depending on the size of the engineer's family and the quality of the insurance, I'm sure you'll go over $1000 pretty easily. People don't realize that their employer pays most of their insurance. The 20-something probably costs $100/month for a high deductible HSA. Edit: I've only seen what it costs for me personally, a single engineer in my 30's and a non-smoker. It's around $200/month for the catastrophic coverage. I vaugely recall paying around $65/month in my 20's pre-ACA. I know there's a hockey stick, though, so I expect 2 adults in their 50's with 4 children would add up. Again, this is for an HSA high-deductible plan.
bjwbell 12y ago
10 times $100 I assume. I'm in my 20's and pay my health insurance myself, it's ~$250 per month for a high deductible plan.
danbmil99 12y ago
On what planet is insurance $20 a month that covers anything of value? 10X is a bit of an exaggeration, it's more like 4X. about 250 for a young single person up to over 1000 for a family. As a fiftysomething high-cost employee, I am aware of this in negotiation. May be illegal or immoral, but I can't blame potential employers for factoring this into the equation.
- villa68o 12y ago
  I better understood now, why I have hard time to switch my job now. I am working at high visibility projects in a very big company: cloud computing, SDN/NFV, etc. I have a master degree in engineering and a MBA from fairly reputable universities. I had my professional engineer licenses in 10+ states before (I have not keep up with annual fee). And, I received 20+ some patents on wireless and devices for my company. But, I feel I am under used and under paid. The things they want me to do is too easy. My working life is easy for me, and I want to do battle. So, I am training myself with by finishing on 2-3 Coursea classes per year (math, ML, SNA,..), attending workshops and Meetups in the valley. I worked 10-12 per day for many years now. It works, I have fair knowledge on new areas and hands on development skill now. I get average 2-3 Linkedin head hunter requests per month for link or discussion job opportunities. I turned most of them down, because some of them too narrow scoped and I also do not want to embarrass myself: I gave my links/phone number to some, but they never call me back. I will be 69 years old in few months. It took me a little efforts to get here. No problem, I will create my own battle ground. I am not done yet.
- adaml_623 12y ago
  A better question might be, "What country do you come from where you don't know how much health insurance in the US costs." But thank you for the numbers. An extra 9K a year doesn't really sound that much to pay for experience but I guess penny pinching is the order of the day for too many managers.

slackson 12y ago

Putting aside single-payer, what's the rationale for doing health insurance through employers, rather than individuals paying for it out of their income?

jsaxton86 12y ago
Taxation is a huge part of it. Employees don't have to pay taxes on the benefit. I think with the ACA, some small business can claim a tax credit for providing health insurance to their employees, but I'm not 100% sure about that part.
metric10 12y ago
It's a hold over from World War 2 wage controls. Offering to pay health insurance on the side got around them. It no doubt continues because of the pre-tax benefits. That is, if your employer pays for it then it isn't subject to federal and state income taxes as well as FICA taxes. Depending on your income level and state, those could be around as 30-35% at a programmer's salary range.
- walshemj 12y ago
  I know someone who while working for Citbank was paying around 25% that just for his insurance (for him self his partners some FBI officer) - makes the UK's NI at 13.8% seem very good value.
eleusive 12y ago
For one, it reduces the effects of adverse selection[1]. The idea is that everyone reaps economic benefits through such programs, as an average company will have a pool of workers, some who are "healthy" although others may have medical problems. Compare this to a individuals wanting health insurance - if they're young and healthy they're less likely to want to pay much for insurance, which leaves older and sicker people to pay higher and higher premiums. Of course this is really only an issue with privatized insurance and is a great argument for having a single-payer solution. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_selection http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_selection

joncalhoun 12y ago

Do you have the source for the quote?

timr 12y ago
the linked post.