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I wonder what happens when a non-US entity flies a plane to kill US citiz .. At least OBL had a valid reason ( for ppl who don't know this - he did it as a rev

by 1971genocide 12y ago

I wonder what happens when a non-US entity flies a plane to kill US citiz .. At least OBL had a valid reason ( for ppl who don't know this - he did it as a revenge to what israel was doing in Lebanon ). Killing civilians without reason is genocide and history will judge US appropriately.

happyscrappy 12y ago
While it is tempting to hope that at some point the US will disengage and let the world fend for itself it is not in the interest of anyone except ISIS, Russia and possibly China. I would personally love to see Putin haranguing Europe.
- dalke 12y ago
  There is no reason to go from one extreme - the 'cops of the word' to quote Ochs - to extreme isolationism on the other. There are many stages in between. FWIW, I believe many residents of Okinawa Prefecture would be interested in having US military off of their island, should the US withdraw. Should we do that, I suspect Japan would quickly develop nuclear weapons. I also strongly believe many in Latin America would prefer a strict isolationist policy by the US. Many remember how the US supported right-wing authoritarian regimes in the 1970s and 1980s, don't want the US meddling in their country, and have little to fear from Eurasian threats.
  - happyscrappy 12y ago
    No it won't happen. Europe being America's hand puppet is the cornerstone of US power.
    - dalke 12y ago
      You said it wasn't in the interest of anyone, other than ISIS, Russia, and China, for the US to withdraw. I pointed out some other examples of people who probably would like the US out of the international stage. Your reply here makes it sound either like you didn't understand your original point - the hope that the US might withdraw - or that you believe the only people who are relevant are the US and those the US considers to be its opposition. I am certain there are people in Bolivia who would like the US to stop protecting US business interests in that country, and who will not be negatively affected by possible growth in Russian, Chinese, or ISIS power should the US become the isolationist state you says was "tempting to hope".
bpodgursky 12y ago
Yeah... no > At least OBL had a valid reason ( for ppl who don't know this - he did it as a revenge to what israel was doing in Lebanon ). Not even going to touch that. The fact is, the US operates out of Pakistan with Pakistan's permission. If Pakistan ordered the US to leave their airbases and stop doing strikes, the US would have to, or lose a ton of forward bases. A few thousand US personnel in Pakistan isn't going to stand a chance if Pakistan tried to forcibly remove these drone bases. Yes Pakistan's government complaints publicly about these strikes, but that's all PR -- they know they don't have a military capable of maintaining their own sovereignty in Waziristan, and need US support there. But they won't admit that publicly.
da02 12y ago
I thought most of the planning and funding was done by Saudi factions: https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/11/the-secret-saudi-ties-to-terrorism/ https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/11/the-secret-saudi-ties-... Greg Palast of the BBC also said something similar. OBL didn't seem capable of it from what I've read. Disclaimer: I don't agree in killing innocent civilians to protest US/Israel/etc policy. Sidenote: the US supported terrorism in Central America, calling them "freedom fighters" in the 80s. Of course, coups and violent overthrows go back to the 50s... even further back in Asia to the 1800s. Also, the US also helped train dictators through the "School of Americas". Michael Moore's "TV Nation" did a report on it on FOX in the early 90s. The point being: get ready for more killings: by "moderate fighters", mercenaries, or drones... or fighter strikes like Bill Clinton's Balkans and Iraq hi-jinks. Americans won't really make drone kills an issue. Abortion and school funding... now that's something much more important.

happyscrappy 12y ago

While it is tempting to hope that at some point the US will disengage and let the world fend for itself it is not in the interest of anyone except ISIS, Russia and possibly China. I would personally love to see Putin haranguing Europe.

dalke 12y ago
There is no reason to go from one extreme - the 'cops of the word' to quote Ochs - to extreme isolationism on the other. There are many stages in between. FWIW, I believe many residents of Okinawa Prefecture would be interested in having US military off of their island, should the US withdraw. Should we do that, I suspect Japan would quickly develop nuclear weapons. I also strongly believe many in Latin America would prefer a strict isolationist policy by the US. Many remember how the US supported right-wing authoritarian regimes in the 1970s and 1980s, don't want the US meddling in their country, and have little to fear from Eurasian threats.
- happyscrappy 12y ago
  No it won't happen. Europe being America's hand puppet is the cornerstone of US power.
  - dalke 12y ago
    You said it wasn't in the interest of anyone, other than ISIS, Russia, and China, for the US to withdraw. I pointed out some other examples of people who probably would like the US out of the international stage. Your reply here makes it sound either like you didn't understand your original point - the hope that the US might withdraw - or that you believe the only people who are relevant are the US and those the US considers to be its opposition. I am certain there are people in Bolivia who would like the US to stop protecting US business interests in that country, and who will not be negatively affected by possible growth in Russian, Chinese, or ISIS power should the US become the isolationist state you says was "tempting to hope".

bpodgursky 12y ago

Yeah... no > At least OBL had a valid reason ( for ppl who don't know this - he did it as a revenge to what israel was doing in Lebanon ). Not even going to touch that. The fact is, the US operates out of Pakistan with Pakistan's permission. If Pakistan ordered the US to leave their airbases and stop doing strikes, the US would have to, or lose a ton of forward bases. A few thousand US personnel in Pakistan isn't going to stand a chance if Pakistan tried to forcibly remove these drone bases. Yes Pakistan's government complaints publicly about these strikes, but that's all PR -- they know they don't have a military capable of maintaining their own sovereignty in Waziristan, and need US support there. But they won't admit that publicly.

da02 12y ago

I thought most of the planning and funding was done by Saudi factions: https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/11/the-secret-saudi-ties-to-terrorism/ https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/11/the-secret-saudi-ties-... Greg Palast of the BBC also said something similar. OBL didn't seem capable of it from what I've read. Disclaimer: I don't agree in killing innocent civilians to protest US/Israel/etc policy. Sidenote: the US supported terrorism in Central America, calling them "freedom fighters" in the 80s. Of course, coups and violent overthrows go back to the 50s... even further back in Asia to the 1800s. Also, the US also helped train dictators through the "School of Americas". Michael Moore's "TV Nation" did a report on it on FOX in the early 90s. The point being: get ready for more killings: by "moderate fighters", mercenaries, or drones... or fighter strikes like Bill Clinton's Balkans and Iraq hi-jinks. Americans won't really make drone kills an issue. Abortion and school funding... now that's something much more important.