7 ms·

The Tesla of Scooters Is Driving Asia's Two Wheel Revolution

111 points by craigjb 11y ago

sakri 11y ago
Since the article didn't provide any pics of the bike : http://www.gogoro.com/ http://www.gogoro.com/ This article reads like a sales pitch, Everything about it sounds so right. By the end I was looking for the "invest now" button :D
- masklinn 11y ago
  I'm impressed by the battery replacement/recharge station, if the actual experience is as good as the marketing copy (http://movies.gogoroapp.com/easier-5_2015-01-19.mp4 http://movies.gogoroapp.com/easier-5_2015-01-19.mp4) it's really neat (assuming an urban environment with a sufficient density of replacement stations).
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  I can imagine my sister riding one of those, I guess. Not a design I'd ever consider seriously riding.
  - freehunter 11y ago
    Hooray for sexism! "But daaaaaad, that's a girl's bike!"
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      So, you wear dresses and carry a purse? Really?
      - freehunter 11y ago
        No, but I drive a Fiat 500.
      - seanp2k2 11y ago
        Vehicles are definitely part of fashion for those who care and can afford it.
- aroch 11y ago
  Poking around their website is quite fun, interactive demos for the personalization section were cool
- nish1500 11y ago
  The bike looks ugly, hence no pics, I think. Perfect sales pitch.
weitingliu 11y ago
Gogoro has been making a lot of waves in Taiwan lately. A few Gogoro stores have been showing up in Taipei and they feel very much like Apple stores! The prospect of seeing an iconic company born out of Taiwan is exciting!
robbiep 11y ago
their battery system logo looks amazingly close to arduino: http://www.gogoro.com/smartscooter/Easier http://www.gogoro.com/smartscooter/Easier
furyg3 11y ago
Electric scooters are becoming very popular here in Amsterdam, and I really hope this gets more of the gas-powered scooters off the market. Scooters here are mostly either used by delivery boys or as a luxury item (since the bike lanes are so good). There is a decent amount of hostility towards scooters from bikers since (right now) they often share the same lanes; scooter riders are impatient, honk-y, often drive too fast and cause accidents, and blast those they are passing with smog. There's a movement to get them off the bike lanes and into traffic. Scooters emit less CO2 per distance traveled than cars (and obviously much less than bike riders!) but often much more smog causing pollutants that affect air quality. Given that there is a really big push to improve air quality in European city centers, electric scooters can make a big difference. Plus gas-powered scooters are noisy as all hell, especially during peak food delivery hours (since all delivery boys love zooming around on their toys making as much noise as possible). I'm starting to see a lot of delivery companies switching to electric scooters, and I'm hoping that this trend either continues or that the government simply mandates these for commercial operations within the city.
- teekert 11y ago
  The scooters should be on the (car) road unless otherwise indicated in nl. The noise can of course also be a nice indicator for a fast scooter approaching. A Prius sneaking up on you from behind can be quite a shock sometimes.
  - barrkel 11y ago
    AFAIK 125+cc scooters should be on the road, but mopeds may be in bike lanes (although I believe Amsterdam may have recently (June 2014) gotten permission to exclude mopeds from cycle lanes specifically in the city). Mopeds are at most 49cc and limited to 50kph, and may or may not be in a scooter shape. There's a continuum between antique heavy-framed bicycles, complete with pedals, as well as a motor that may or may not be running, through to scooter-style mopeds.
  - IkmoIkmo 11y ago
    Nah, scooter is a wide ranging term. More specifically we have snorscooters, bromscooters, and motorscooters. The motorscooter (actual term that exists, though not popular) is just a regular motorcycle. The snorscooter is limited to 25 km/h, but is manufactured generally at 30, up to 45 km/h with artificial limitations on the engine which can be turned off. (guess what happens). And these are allowed on bicycle paths. Only the bromscooter and motorscooter, must go on the road. So yeah cyclists do end up sharing their lanes with vehicles going up to 45, while a bike in the city usually goes around 15. Particularly annoying is cycling with a friend, and having to cycle in front of each other instead of side by side every 30 seconds because something twice as fast wants to pass you by. I quite like the electric scooters in general as a consumer, a friend of mine has one and I've tried it a few times and it's great. But generally I'm not a fan of the concept. We've come a very long way here with cycling, spending 20 minutes going to your work, 20 minutes back, 10 to the grocery store and 10 to a cafe in the evening, that's pretty much the daily required exercise you want every human being to have. It's plays a huge, mostly unintentional, part in our health. It's very safe, as we have lightweight, nimble, 15 km/h vehicles on dedicated lanes. And it gives rise to a different form of city planning, one where life is designed around a 30 minute cycling distance radius, as opposed to what I experienced in the US (living & work & entertainment are hugely separated. You have to do groceries by car, and go to work by car.) And lastly, of course, the environmental factors of not just running motorised vehicles (whether electric or fossil fuels), but also the manufacturing of them. So while I'd love to see motors go electric, particularly cars, I'm at the same time concerned that the scooter versus the bicycle will become more popular! :)
janekm 11y ago
Electric scooters (not fancy design ones like this but rather pedestrian-looking ones) are already completely ubiquitous in China, both for deliveries (including for 20kg water jugs, it's a bit disconcerting seeing a moped with 4 or more of those on the back) and for a very unsafe short-distance unlicensed taxi service for the last mile from the metro stop.
- seanmcdirmid 11y ago
  I know for deliveries, they are used, but the short jaunt scooter taxis I see in Beijing still seem to be mostly gas based (and of course, most all the personal scooters are electric).
  - janekm 11y ago
    That's quite interesting as I have basically never seen a non-electric scooter here in Shenzhen. Almost seems like there might be some local regulation around that, but I have no idea. Even Amazon use electric scooters for delivery here ;)
- tim333 11y ago
  It's quite impressive how cheap the Chinese scooters are eg this from $470 http://aima-tech.en.made-in-china.com/product/lKJQufadaRkw/China-60V-20ah-1000W-Electric-Scooter.html http://aima-tech.en.made-in-china.com/product/lKJQufadaRkw/C... admittedly lead-acid batteries rather than lithium
awjr 11y ago
Within urban environments, electric bicycles need serious consideration. A scooter does not provide you the flexibility that an ebike does. Yes they are speed limited, however they are significantly cheaper. My wife suffers from knee problems, so we're in the process of buying a pedal assist+throttle ebike to enable her to get around the city of Bath. A moped would not enable her to take advantage of the cycle paths in the area. She would still need to mix with HGVs on the road. It naturally needed a basket and the right colour :) http://www.juicybike.co.uk/electric-bikes/classic-click-dutch-style-electric-bicycle http://www.juicybike.co.uk/electric-bikes/classic-click-dutc... Electric bikes have benefited massively from technology advancements in the last couple of years and anyone looking at an electric scooter should seriously consider an electric bicycle. It offers a lot more flexibility in where you can go with it.
- masklinn 11y ago
  > My wife suffers from knee problems, so we're in the process of buying a pedal assist+throttle ebike to enable her to get around the city of Bath. The UK has different regulations, but beware that in the EU "proper" if it has a power-on-demand it's legally a moped or a motorbike, only pedelecs (pedal-assist only, cut off above 25km/h, under 250W maximum continuous rated power) are legally bicycles. Also of note, "S-pedelecs" branding in some jurisdictions are a marketing lie, they are not legally bicycles (except in Norway, where they are allowed on bike paths if and only if the electrical systems are shut down)
- scrollaway 11y ago
  The biggest issue with electric bicycles for me is the fear of getting it stolen. My current, mid-expensive bike is stressing me like hell whenever I leave it out in the city for more than an hour, despite a big padlock. An electric bike would be a more visible target and I don't think I could ever actually leave it alone in good conscience. Am I just paranoid or is this a real issue?
  - toyg 11y ago
    It's likely not an issue at the moment because electric bikes are still a novelty: highly recognizable and harder to resell. Should they get popular, then sure, it would be an issue, exactly like it is for any bike. Btw, it's ridiculous that in 2015 we still haven't solved the problem of stolen bikes.
legulere 11y ago
For the people not used to the imperial unit system: 125 cc is 125 cm³. 30 mph is around 50 km/h (the speed it reaches in 4.2 seconds). 60 mph is around 95 km/h (the max speed). 266 800 square-foot is 24 786 m². 20 miles are around 32 kilometers. 8900 square-foot is 826 m².
- lmz 11y ago
  Is "cc" actually an imperial unit? I thought it stood for "cubic centimetres" (also equiv to ml).
  - toyg 11y ago
    Yeah, I've seen "cc" used everywhere for "cubic centimeters" back in Italy.
  - freehunter 11y ago
    Correct, cubic inches would be the imperial unit. The famous Chevy big block 409 engine (from the Beach Boys song "409") is a 409 cubic inches, or about 6.7L (6700 cc, cubic centimeters).
haraball 11y ago
A german competitor could be UNU Motors: https://unumotors.com/product https://unumotors.com/product They solve the battery swap problem by letting you bring your battery inside and charge it from normal wall outlets.
netcan 11y ago
I had a really interesting conversation with a couple of guys a few months ago about cost of living. Cost of living is a really interesting entry point into thinking about economics, policies, wealth and such. I really think our decisions would be better if this was a bigger part of the economic debate rather then the very abstract macroeconomics, political theory and abstract ideological debates we have been carrying for so long. The role of technology, policy and taste/choices is a lot easier to decipher. I think it's a lot more productive way of structuring public debate/demands/protests. Cost of living at the fat centre of the distribution for many/most households in advanced economies looks something like like this: - Housing + utilities (25-50% of income) - Transport (10-20%) - Groceries (7.5-15%) Housing is the big hairy item. It's dishearteningly competitive, so high income places often have correspondingly high housing costs and the percentage remains constant. Anyway.. Transport. Transport is a major cost item and it's quality is important. A fundamental ingredient in most people and place's fundamental economic wellbeing equation. It's also one of the most fixable with technology. A 90 minutes commute on crowded public transport is way worse than a 10 minute walk or drive. Transport infrastructure takes up a lot of space, affects air quality, makes noise, affects walkability and lots of other key quality of life issues. Energy. Time. Health. Money. Transport is a very big deal. If you've seen cities that had major increases in cycling and/or electric bikes/scooters, you were probably surprised by the success. There is a lot of potential here. 10-20 mph electric bikes, given the right customs, rules and infrastructure can be awesome in dense urban areas. Potentially game-changing over time.
de_Selby 11y ago
> Riders won’t own the batteries. Instead, they’ll pay a low monthly fee to swap portable batteries as needed from a network of charging stations. This is the key thing that electric cars need too - we need standardised batteries which can be swapped out, then the charging time is irrelevant.
- seanp2k2 11y ago
  Do EV/hybrid drivers thinking they're saving the planet consider the impact from manufacturing / disposing of batteries? NiMh and lithium-based batteries might not pollute locally, but mining / refining / manufacturing / shipping / disposal happens somewhere (probably in Asia), as does power generation (mostly from coal in the US). I think a lot of the appeal of EVs / hybrids comes from the clean image, even though these vehicles still cause lots of pollution. It's the opposite problem of diesel vehicles, which, though more fuel-efficient than their equivalent gasoline-powered counterparts, emit a more opaque smoke, leading to people thinking they're worse for the environment.
a8da6b0c91d 11y ago
The only reason anyone buys scooters, either electric or gas, in America is they can usually be operated without a license and insurance. Otherwise they make zero financial sense. They are more expensive than 250cc gasoline motorcycles that require very little maintenance, sip gasoline, and can go 65+ mph. You can get a perfectly good small motorcycle for $2k. Dropping some multiple of that for an electric scooter toy makes no sense.
- chrisdbaldwin 11y ago
  You're right. This won't be a product for Americans. Scooters are much more viable in the dense cities of Europe and Asia. As an aside, focusing on the vehicle is missing what Gogoro is pursuing: batteries.
- seanp2k2 11y ago
  It does make sense when you can take them on bike paths, which are off-limits to motorcycles and mostly to gas-powered scooters (like GoPeds, which can get >100mpg). Lane-splitting is also amazing in California, where having your motorcycle license lets you use the HOV lane and filter through traffic if the lanes are wide enough to do it ~safely.
- nattofriends 11y ago
  In California riding a scooter requires a motorcycle license.
- walshemj 11y ago
  Scooters can be better for commuting in work clothes I am thinking of the classic small wheel scooters like Lambrettas
freemanindia 11y ago
The electric unicycle is the electric vehicle for the masses.

111 points by craigjb 11y ago

sakri 11y ago

Since the article didn't provide any pics of the bike : http://www.gogoro.com/ http://www.gogoro.com/ This article reads like a sales pitch, Everything about it sounds so right. By the end I was looking for the "invest now" button :D

masklinn 11y ago
I'm impressed by the battery replacement/recharge station, if the actual experience is as good as the marketing copy (http://movies.gogoroapp.com/easier-5_2015-01-19.mp4 http://movies.gogoroapp.com/easier-5_2015-01-19.mp4) it's really neat (assuming an urban environment with a sufficient density of replacement stations).
JoeAltmaier 11y ago
I can imagine my sister riding one of those, I guess. Not a design I'd ever consider seriously riding.
- freehunter 11y ago
  Hooray for sexism! "But daaaaaad, that's a girl's bike!"
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    So, you wear dresses and carry a purse? Really?
    - freehunter 11y ago
      No, but I drive a Fiat 500.
    - seanp2k2 11y ago
      Vehicles are definitely part of fashion for those who care and can afford it.
aroch 11y ago
Poking around their website is quite fun, interactive demos for the personalization section were cool
nish1500 11y ago
The bike looks ugly, hence no pics, I think. Perfect sales pitch.

weitingliu 11y ago

Gogoro has been making a lot of waves in Taiwan lately. A few Gogoro stores have been showing up in Taipei and they feel very much like Apple stores! The prospect of seeing an iconic company born out of Taiwan is exciting!

robbiep 11y ago

their battery system logo looks amazingly close to arduino: http://www.gogoro.com/smartscooter/Easier http://www.gogoro.com/smartscooter/Easier

furyg3 11y ago

Electric scooters are becoming very popular here in Amsterdam, and I really hope this gets more of the gas-powered scooters off the market. Scooters here are mostly either used by delivery boys or as a luxury item (since the bike lanes are so good). There is a decent amount of hostility towards scooters from bikers since (right now) they often share the same lanes; scooter riders are impatient, honk-y, often drive too fast and cause accidents, and blast those they are passing with smog. There's a movement to get them off the bike lanes and into traffic. Scooters emit less CO2 per distance traveled than cars (and obviously much less than bike riders!) but often much more smog causing pollutants that affect air quality. Given that there is a really big push to improve air quality in European city centers, electric scooters can make a big difference. Plus gas-powered scooters are noisy as all hell, especially during peak food delivery hours (since all delivery boys love zooming around on their toys making as much noise as possible). I'm starting to see a lot of delivery companies switching to electric scooters, and I'm hoping that this trend either continues or that the government simply mandates these for commercial operations within the city.

teekert 11y ago
The scooters should be on the (car) road unless otherwise indicated in nl. The noise can of course also be a nice indicator for a fast scooter approaching. A Prius sneaking up on you from behind can be quite a shock sometimes.
- barrkel 11y ago
  AFAIK 125+cc scooters should be on the road, but mopeds may be in bike lanes (although I believe Amsterdam may have recently (June 2014) gotten permission to exclude mopeds from cycle lanes specifically in the city). Mopeds are at most 49cc and limited to 50kph, and may or may not be in a scooter shape. There's a continuum between antique heavy-framed bicycles, complete with pedals, as well as a motor that may or may not be running, through to scooter-style mopeds.
- IkmoIkmo 11y ago
  Nah, scooter is a wide ranging term. More specifically we have snorscooters, bromscooters, and motorscooters. The motorscooter (actual term that exists, though not popular) is just a regular motorcycle. The snorscooter is limited to 25 km/h, but is manufactured generally at 30, up to 45 km/h with artificial limitations on the engine which can be turned off. (guess what happens). And these are allowed on bicycle paths. Only the bromscooter and motorscooter, must go on the road. So yeah cyclists do end up sharing their lanes with vehicles going up to 45, while a bike in the city usually goes around 15. Particularly annoying is cycling with a friend, and having to cycle in front of each other instead of side by side every 30 seconds because something twice as fast wants to pass you by. I quite like the electric scooters in general as a consumer, a friend of mine has one and I've tried it a few times and it's great. But generally I'm not a fan of the concept. We've come a very long way here with cycling, spending 20 minutes going to your work, 20 minutes back, 10 to the grocery store and 10 to a cafe in the evening, that's pretty much the daily required exercise you want every human being to have. It's plays a huge, mostly unintentional, part in our health. It's very safe, as we have lightweight, nimble, 15 km/h vehicles on dedicated lanes. And it gives rise to a different form of city planning, one where life is designed around a 30 minute cycling distance radius, as opposed to what I experienced in the US (living & work & entertainment are hugely separated. You have to do groceries by car, and go to work by car.) And lastly, of course, the environmental factors of not just running motorised vehicles (whether electric or fossil fuels), but also the manufacturing of them. So while I'd love to see motors go electric, particularly cars, I'm at the same time concerned that the scooter versus the bicycle will become more popular! :)

janekm 11y ago

Electric scooters (not fancy design ones like this but rather pedestrian-looking ones) are already completely ubiquitous in China, both for deliveries (including for 20kg water jugs, it's a bit disconcerting seeing a moped with 4 or more of those on the back) and for a very unsafe short-distance unlicensed taxi service for the last mile from the metro stop.

seanmcdirmid 11y ago
I know for deliveries, they are used, but the short jaunt scooter taxis I see in Beijing still seem to be mostly gas based (and of course, most all the personal scooters are electric).
- janekm 11y ago
  That's quite interesting as I have basically never seen a non-electric scooter here in Shenzhen. Almost seems like there might be some local regulation around that, but I have no idea. Even Amazon use electric scooters for delivery here ;)
tim333 11y ago
It's quite impressive how cheap the Chinese scooters are eg this from $470 http://aima-tech.en.made-in-china.com/product/lKJQufadaRkw/China-60V-20ah-1000W-Electric-Scooter.html http://aima-tech.en.made-in-china.com/product/lKJQufadaRkw/C... admittedly lead-acid batteries rather than lithium

awjr 11y ago

Within urban environments, electric bicycles need serious consideration. A scooter does not provide you the flexibility that an ebike does. Yes they are speed limited, however they are significantly cheaper. My wife suffers from knee problems, so we're in the process of buying a pedal assist+throttle ebike to enable her to get around the city of Bath. A moped would not enable her to take advantage of the cycle paths in the area. She would still need to mix with HGVs on the road. It naturally needed a basket and the right colour :) http://www.juicybike.co.uk/electric-bikes/classic-click-dutch-style-electric-bicycle http://www.juicybike.co.uk/electric-bikes/classic-click-dutc... Electric bikes have benefited massively from technology advancements in the last couple of years and anyone looking at an electric scooter should seriously consider an electric bicycle. It offers a lot more flexibility in where you can go with it.

masklinn 11y ago
> My wife suffers from knee problems, so we're in the process of buying a pedal assist+throttle ebike to enable her to get around the city of Bath. The UK has different regulations, but beware that in the EU "proper" if it has a power-on-demand it's legally a moped or a motorbike, only pedelecs (pedal-assist only, cut off above 25km/h, under 250W maximum continuous rated power) are legally bicycles. Also of note, "S-pedelecs" branding in some jurisdictions are a marketing lie, they are not legally bicycles (except in Norway, where they are allowed on bike paths if and only if the electrical systems are shut down)
scrollaway 11y ago
The biggest issue with electric bicycles for me is the fear of getting it stolen. My current, mid-expensive bike is stressing me like hell whenever I leave it out in the city for more than an hour, despite a big padlock. An electric bike would be a more visible target and I don't think I could ever actually leave it alone in good conscience. Am I just paranoid or is this a real issue?
- toyg 11y ago
  It's likely not an issue at the moment because electric bikes are still a novelty: highly recognizable and harder to resell. Should they get popular, then sure, it would be an issue, exactly like it is for any bike. Btw, it's ridiculous that in 2015 we still haven't solved the problem of stolen bikes.

legulere 11y ago

For the people not used to the imperial unit system: 125 cc is 125 cm³. 30 mph is around 50 km/h (the speed it reaches in 4.2 seconds). 60 mph is around 95 km/h (the max speed). 266 800 square-foot is 24 786 m². 20 miles are around 32 kilometers. 8900 square-foot is 826 m².

lmz 11y ago
Is "cc" actually an imperial unit? I thought it stood for "cubic centimetres" (also equiv to ml).
- toyg 11y ago
  Yeah, I've seen "cc" used everywhere for "cubic centimeters" back in Italy.
- freehunter 11y ago
  Correct, cubic inches would be the imperial unit. The famous Chevy big block 409 engine (from the Beach Boys song "409") is a 409 cubic inches, or about 6.7L (6700 cc, cubic centimeters).

haraball 11y ago

A german competitor could be UNU Motors: https://unumotors.com/product https://unumotors.com/product They solve the battery swap problem by letting you bring your battery inside and charge it from normal wall outlets.

netcan 11y ago

I had a really interesting conversation with a couple of guys a few months ago about cost of living. Cost of living is a really interesting entry point into thinking about economics, policies, wealth and such. I really think our decisions would be better if this was a bigger part of the economic debate rather then the very abstract macroeconomics, political theory and abstract ideological debates we have been carrying for so long. The role of technology, policy and taste/choices is a lot easier to decipher. I think it's a lot more productive way of structuring public debate/demands/protests. Cost of living at the fat centre of the distribution for many/most households in advanced economies looks something like like this: - Housing + utilities (25-50% of income) - Transport (10-20%) - Groceries (7.5-15%) Housing is the big hairy item. It's dishearteningly competitive, so high income places often have correspondingly high housing costs and the percentage remains constant. Anyway.. Transport. Transport is a major cost item and it's quality is important. A fundamental ingredient in most people and place's fundamental economic wellbeing equation. It's also one of the most fixable with technology. A 90 minutes commute on crowded public transport is way worse than a 10 minute walk or drive. Transport infrastructure takes up a lot of space, affects air quality, makes noise, affects walkability and lots of other key quality of life issues. Energy. Time. Health. Money. Transport is a very big deal. If you've seen cities that had major increases in cycling and/or electric bikes/scooters, you were probably surprised by the success. There is a lot of potential here. 10-20 mph electric bikes, given the right customs, rules and infrastructure can be awesome in dense urban areas. Potentially game-changing over time.

de_Selby 11y ago

> Riders won’t own the batteries. Instead, they’ll pay a low monthly fee to swap portable batteries as needed from a network of charging stations. This is the key thing that electric cars need too - we need standardised batteries which can be swapped out, then the charging time is irrelevant.

seanp2k2 11y ago
Do EV/hybrid drivers thinking they're saving the planet consider the impact from manufacturing / disposing of batteries? NiMh and lithium-based batteries might not pollute locally, but mining / refining / manufacturing / shipping / disposal happens somewhere (probably in Asia), as does power generation (mostly from coal in the US). I think a lot of the appeal of EVs / hybrids comes from the clean image, even though these vehicles still cause lots of pollution. It's the opposite problem of diesel vehicles, which, though more fuel-efficient than their equivalent gasoline-powered counterparts, emit a more opaque smoke, leading to people thinking they're worse for the environment.

a8da6b0c91d 11y ago

The only reason anyone buys scooters, either electric or gas, in America is they can usually be operated without a license and insurance. Otherwise they make zero financial sense. They are more expensive than 250cc gasoline motorcycles that require very little maintenance, sip gasoline, and can go 65+ mph. You can get a perfectly good small motorcycle for $2k. Dropping some multiple of that for an electric scooter toy makes no sense.

chrisdbaldwin 11y ago
You're right. This won't be a product for Americans. Scooters are much more viable in the dense cities of Europe and Asia. As an aside, focusing on the vehicle is missing what Gogoro is pursuing: batteries.
seanp2k2 11y ago
It does make sense when you can take them on bike paths, which are off-limits to motorcycles and mostly to gas-powered scooters (like GoPeds, which can get >100mpg). Lane-splitting is also amazing in California, where having your motorcycle license lets you use the HOV lane and filter through traffic if the lanes are wide enough to do it ~safely.
nattofriends 11y ago
In California riding a scooter requires a motorcycle license.
walshemj 11y ago
Scooters can be better for commuting in work clothes I am thinking of the classic small wheel scooters like Lambrettas

freemanindia 11y ago

The electric unicycle is the electric vehicle for the masses.