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I think this blogpost debunks this pretty good: http://uvdiv.blogspot.com/2009/11/spanish-wind-power-exposed.html http://uvdiv.blogspot.com/2009/11/spanish-win

by pieter 17y ago

I think this blogpost debunks this pretty good: http://uvdiv.blogspot.com/2009/11/spanish-wind-power-exposed.html http://uvdiv.blogspot.com/2009/11/spanish-wind-power-exposed... Spain only gets about 9% of energy from renewables on average, which is much less than a lot of other countries. The 53% number is very deceptive IMHO, and really shows that you can't count on wind for reliable energy.

ghshephard 17y ago
Not debunking at all, the first words in the article were: "Ok, not all the time, but last weekend at 5:50am on Sunday morning (8th Nov) Spain set a new record, hitting 53.7%" Which instantly made it clear that this was an exception. I don't think anybody is suggesting that you can provide all of your power requirements from Wind, but - clearly, Wind can be an important part of your renewable portfolio in some cases. Obviously Solar, GeoThermal, Hydroelectric, Conservation, Efficiency all have important roles to play as well.
- pieter 17y ago
  The title of this post was edited after I posted, it was something like "Spain gets 53% of its energy from wind" first.
  - TomRaftery 17y ago
    As the author of the article I can categorically refute this. The title of this article was never edited. And WordPress has obligingly saved all of the post revisions so I can quite easily prove this, if necessary.
    - pg 17y ago
      He means the title on HN.
- pbhjpbhj 17y ago
  Some people do, not by living in perpetually windy environments but by reducing consumption and using stored energy supply (eg batteries but pumping water to provide hydroelectric which can be used at any time is also a possibility).
adrinavarro 17y ago
9% is the lowest value, not the average!
- uvdiv 17y ago
  Oh no, it is the average value. You don't want to know the lowest value. Or if you do, go to the Spanish utility's site and browse statistics for the summer months, when wind is usually slower: http://www.ree.es/ingles/operacion/curvas_eolica.asp http://www.ree.es/ingles/operacion/curvas_eolica.asp E.g. July 1st 2009 - minimum of 105 MWe, or about 0.3% of average demand. The recent peak was 11,500 MWe: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/09/spain-national-record-power-windfarms http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/09/spain-nati...
  - adrinavarro 17y ago
    You're right. Anyway, and what I mean, is that the average of energy provided with enough wind is pretty high. The average isn't that low for the 95th percentile (and the bottleneck is still the wind)
uvdiv 17y ago
Oh wow. I was just lurking here, and I see my own blog mentioned! I hate to be an exasperating pedant, but I am, and I must annoy you: "Spain only gets about 9% of energy from renewables on average," It's actually 9% of electricity from wind power, which is a very different statistic. As other commenters point out here, actually ~25% of Spanish electricity is renewable [1]; most of the difference is hydropower, which is also renewable. And then the proportion of energy is different yet, since most energy consumption is in forms that are not electric: i.e. natural gas heating, petrol fuel. See example energy flowcharts here [2]. [1] (PDF file) http://www.ree.es/ingles/sistema_electrico/pdf/infosis/sintesis_REE_2008_eng.pdf http://www.ree.es/ingles/sistema_electrico/pdf/infosis/sinte... [2] https://publicaffairs.llnl.gov/news/energy/energy.html https://publicaffairs.llnl.gov/news/energy/energy.html

by pieter 17y ago

ghshephard 17y ago

Not debunking at all, the first words in the article were: "Ok, not all the time, but last weekend at 5:50am on Sunday morning (8th Nov) Spain set a new record, hitting 53.7%" Which instantly made it clear that this was an exception. I don't think anybody is suggesting that you can provide all of your power requirements from Wind, but - clearly, Wind can be an important part of your renewable portfolio in some cases. Obviously Solar, GeoThermal, Hydroelectric, Conservation, Efficiency all have important roles to play as well.

pieter 17y ago
The title of this post was edited after I posted, it was something like "Spain gets 53% of its energy from wind" first.
- TomRaftery 17y ago
  As the author of the article I can categorically refute this. The title of this article was never edited. And WordPress has obligingly saved all of the post revisions so I can quite easily prove this, if necessary.
  - pg 17y ago
    He means the title on HN.
pbhjpbhj 17y ago
Some people do, not by living in perpetually windy environments but by reducing consumption and using stored energy supply (eg batteries but pumping water to provide hydroelectric which can be used at any time is also a possibility).

adrinavarro 17y ago

9% is the lowest value, not the average!

uvdiv 17y ago
Oh no, it is the average value. You don't want to know the lowest value. Or if you do, go to the Spanish utility's site and browse statistics for the summer months, when wind is usually slower: http://www.ree.es/ingles/operacion/curvas_eolica.asp http://www.ree.es/ingles/operacion/curvas_eolica.asp E.g. July 1st 2009 - minimum of 105 MWe, or about 0.3% of average demand. The recent peak was 11,500 MWe: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/09/spain-national-record-power-windfarms http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/09/spain-nati...
- adrinavarro 17y ago
  You're right. Anyway, and what I mean, is that the average of energy provided with enough wind is pretty high. The average isn't that low for the 95th percentile (and the bottleneck is still the wind)

uvdiv 17y ago

Oh wow. I was just lurking here, and I see my own blog mentioned! I hate to be an exasperating pedant, but I am, and I must annoy you: "Spain only gets about 9% of energy from renewables on average," It's actually 9% of electricity from wind power, which is a very different statistic. As other commenters point out here, actually ~25% of Spanish electricity is renewable [1]; most of the difference is hydropower, which is also renewable. And then the proportion of energy is different yet, since most energy consumption is in forms that are not electric: i.e. natural gas heating, petrol fuel. See example energy flowcharts here [2]. [1] (PDF file) http://www.ree.es/ingles/sistema_electrico/pdf/infosis/sintesis_REE_2008_eng.pdf http://www.ree.es/ingles/sistema_electrico/pdf/infosis/sinte... [2] https://publicaffairs.llnl.gov/news/energy/energy.html https://publicaffairs.llnl.gov/news/energy/energy.html