8 ms·

"Even though some might say this is just a teenage prank, who knows what this teenager might have done..." Who knows what students in cooking class holding but

by meric 12y ago

"Even though some might say this is just a teenage prank, who knows what this teenager might have done..." Who knows what students in cooking class holding butcher knives might do? Who knows what police might do when entering people's houses. Shoot dogs that bark. Who knows what the dog might do? https://news.vice.com/article/san-diego-police-shoot-mans-service-dog-dead-after-responding-to-domestic-violence-call https://news.vice.com/article/san-diego-police-shoot-mans-se... Who knows what police might do when chasing down a homeless person. Shoot them forty-six times. Who knows what an homeless might do? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/footage-shows-homeless-black-man-milton-hall-being-shot-at-46-times-by-police-in-the-us-9826453.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/footage-sho... Who knows what police might do when they see your children pranking each other in Walmart with a fake gun? Shoot them. http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/cops-shoot-and-kill-man-holding-toy-gun-walmart http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/cops-shoot-and-kill-man-holding-t...

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
dragontamer 12y ago
I don't like what this Florida Police Officer is doing. But focusing on a single poorly spoken sentence is absurd. I understand that police sheriffs are politicians, so this is generally considered "fair game" in American Politics. But this is an obviously bad, off-the-cuff remark that Chris Nocco shouldn't have said. But the amount of focus that has been given to this absurd statement is ridiculous. It is a demonstration of our short-attention span and love of "gotcha" catchphrases that are destroying American Politics. Lets do this rationally. Lets start by looking for a written official statement from this Officer before making fun of his views. --------------------------- Here's a better quote from this officer. "I think, unfortunately, when the story's being told in other (publications), they're not talking about the fact that he committed this crime previously," Nocco said Monday. "We enforce the law. And if we don't enforce the law, nobody else will." Knowing that this guy is a repeat offender changes the calculus significantly. I think everyone can get a free pass once. The 2nd pass, maybe the officer is just showing the kid that he really has the power to prosecute him (without necessarily going forward with the intent on actually doing so). The kid's lawyer likely contacted the eff / press to make the officer back off a bit. In the end, the kid is going to get off with a slap on the wrist and a bit of disdain for the officers of this country.
- emodendroket 12y ago
  How many people posting on HN have not, at several times in their lives, in some way used computer systems in an "unauthorized" way?
  - dragontamer 12y ago
    How many people on HN have been caught using a computer system in an "unauthorized" way, and then decided to do it again less than a few months later? Remember, this kid is a repeat offender. He got caught, officially, at least once by the Police. We don't know how many times his teachers caught him before putting something onto his permanent record either. ---------------- EDIT: "Green was released on Wednesday from Land O'Lakes Detention Center into the custody of his mother. He'll likely be granted pretrial intervention by a judge, sheriff's detective Anthony Bossone said." The Sheriff Detective doesn't even expect this kid to have any serious harm on his record. They're trying to scare the kid without really putting anything on his record. Unfortunately, the freaking newspapers are releasing this guy's name. What the flying *!@#! guys? Does not Florida have laws against releasing the names of 14-year old minors?
    - lawnchair_larry 12y ago
      It's a setting on a computer. Get a grip. This is pure insanity.
      - dragontamer 12y ago
        > [redacted] said that on the morning in question, he accessed the computer that stored the FCAT files and, realizing that computer didn't have a camera, found another. > "So I logged out of that computer and logged into a different one and I logged into a teacher's computer who I didn't like and tried putting inappropriate pictures onto his computer to annoy him," [redacted] said. Erm... the kid was looking for cameras so that he'd spy on his classmates using administrative privileges. BTW: The real problem here... is that the press is extremely dumb how they're handling this. I shouldn't be able to find this information... the press should have editorial discretion to protect this kid from this sort of analysis I'm doing. It's not right to take apart an 8th-grader's argument like this... but I think I have to to prove a point to yall. I'm gonna redact his name at least, unlike the press.
balabaster 12y ago
Or kids in chemistry classes learning to master chemical reactions... or shop class learning to build combustion engines to contain explosions... Who knows what anyone might do... ever. May as well lock us all up now for what we might do based on our "skills."
- venomsnake 12y ago
  In Eastern Europe there are special highschools that accent on STEM. Lets say that for the stuff we did when growing up back then would make a Breaking Bad fan go - dude, that is too far. I think that kids will be kids ...
  - balabaster 12y ago
    I gave up on Breaking Bad at Episode 3 for that exact reason. "Dude, that is too far." lol. I agree with your sentiment that kids will be kids, but they also need to be kept in check from time to time so that they don't cause a nuisance of themselves to the rest of society.
    - venomsnake 12y ago
      And that is why we should teach them how to handle dangerous stuff responsibly, and not treat them as criminals for every infraction.
vidarh 12y ago
The lesson from that sentence is that if you're first going to log into someone elses computer, you might as well make sure to take maximum advantage, given that the police appears to want to assume you have done so anyway if you get caught.
- coldtea 12y ago
  Not so fast. Depends if them saying "who knows what he might have done" gets e.g. like 80% more harsh penantly, and them saying "look all this maximum thing he indeed done" leads to a 100% harsher penalty.
- IkmoIkmo 12y ago
  Exactly. This is a known variable in criminology. If you have very harsh punishment for low-end offenses, then punishment ceases to be a tool for deterrence. For example, if you get caughtt with a bag of hand grenades and you get 3 years for possession of dangerous unregistered weaponry, alright, you may want to surrender at that point and take the 3y. But if you get life in jail for that, you might as well try to kill the cop and flee, because either way, you're getting life in jail. (ignoring places with the death sentence in this hypothetical example). Of course there are still other reasons to just surrender, e.g. morals, reputation, religious fear etc. But purely deterrence of punishment is gone. I don't think it's terribly relevant in this case, but yeah in general, too harsh crimes for small offenses can actually lead a rational thinker to maximize instead of minimize additional crimes.
  - astrodust 12y ago
    This is exactly why the "Three Strikes" rule is extremely dangerous. It turns a routine traffic stop into a life-or-death situation for people.

by meric 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

dragontamer 12y ago

I don't like what this Florida Police Officer is doing. But focusing on a single poorly spoken sentence is absurd. I understand that police sheriffs are politicians, so this is generally considered "fair game" in American Politics. But this is an obviously bad, off-the-cuff remark that Chris Nocco shouldn't have said. But the amount of focus that has been given to this absurd statement is ridiculous. It is a demonstration of our short-attention span and love of "gotcha" catchphrases that are destroying American Politics. Lets do this rationally. Lets start by looking for a written official statement from this Officer before making fun of his views. --------------------------- Here's a better quote from this officer. "I think, unfortunately, when the story's being told in other (publications), they're not talking about the fact that he committed this crime previously," Nocco said Monday. "We enforce the law. And if we don't enforce the law, nobody else will." Knowing that this guy is a repeat offender changes the calculus significantly. I think everyone can get a free pass once. The 2nd pass, maybe the officer is just showing the kid that he really has the power to prosecute him (without necessarily going forward with the intent on actually doing so). The kid's lawyer likely contacted the eff / press to make the officer back off a bit. In the end, the kid is going to get off with a slap on the wrist and a bit of disdain for the officers of this country.

emodendroket 12y ago
How many people posting on HN have not, at several times in their lives, in some way used computer systems in an "unauthorized" way?
- dragontamer 12y ago
  How many people on HN have been caught using a computer system in an "unauthorized" way, and then decided to do it again less than a few months later? Remember, this kid is a repeat offender. He got caught, officially, at least once by the Police. We don't know how many times his teachers caught him before putting something onto his permanent record either. ---------------- EDIT: "Green was released on Wednesday from Land O'Lakes Detention Center into the custody of his mother. He'll likely be granted pretrial intervention by a judge, sheriff's detective Anthony Bossone said." The Sheriff Detective doesn't even expect this kid to have any serious harm on his record. They're trying to scare the kid without really putting anything on his record. Unfortunately, the freaking newspapers are releasing this guy's name. What the flying *!@#! guys? Does not Florida have laws against releasing the names of 14-year old minors?
  - lawnchair_larry 12y ago
    It's a setting on a computer. Get a grip. This is pure insanity.
    - dragontamer 12y ago
      > [redacted] said that on the morning in question, he accessed the computer that stored the FCAT files and, realizing that computer didn't have a camera, found another. > "So I logged out of that computer and logged into a different one and I logged into a teacher's computer who I didn't like and tried putting inappropriate pictures onto his computer to annoy him," [redacted] said. Erm... the kid was looking for cameras so that he'd spy on his classmates using administrative privileges. BTW: The real problem here... is that the press is extremely dumb how they're handling this. I shouldn't be able to find this information... the press should have editorial discretion to protect this kid from this sort of analysis I'm doing. It's not right to take apart an 8th-grader's argument like this... but I think I have to to prove a point to yall. I'm gonna redact his name at least, unlike the press.

balabaster 12y ago

Or kids in chemistry classes learning to master chemical reactions... or shop class learning to build combustion engines to contain explosions... Who knows what anyone might do... ever. May as well lock us all up now for what we might do based on our "skills."

venomsnake 12y ago
In Eastern Europe there are special highschools that accent on STEM. Lets say that for the stuff we did when growing up back then would make a Breaking Bad fan go - dude, that is too far. I think that kids will be kids ...
- balabaster 12y ago
  I gave up on Breaking Bad at Episode 3 for that exact reason. "Dude, that is too far." lol. I agree with your sentiment that kids will be kids, but they also need to be kept in check from time to time so that they don't cause a nuisance of themselves to the rest of society.
  - venomsnake 12y ago
    And that is why we should teach them how to handle dangerous stuff responsibly, and not treat them as criminals for every infraction.

vidarh 12y ago

The lesson from that sentence is that if you're first going to log into someone elses computer, you might as well make sure to take maximum advantage, given that the police appears to want to assume you have done so anyway if you get caught.

coldtea 12y ago
Not so fast. Depends if them saying "who knows what he might have done" gets e.g. like 80% more harsh penantly, and them saying "look all this maximum thing he indeed done" leads to a 100% harsher penalty.
IkmoIkmo 12y ago
Exactly. This is a known variable in criminology. If you have very harsh punishment for low-end offenses, then punishment ceases to be a tool for deterrence. For example, if you get caughtt with a bag of hand grenades and you get 3 years for possession of dangerous unregistered weaponry, alright, you may want to surrender at that point and take the 3y. But if you get life in jail for that, you might as well try to kill the cop and flee, because either way, you're getting life in jail. (ignoring places with the death sentence in this hypothetical example). Of course there are still other reasons to just surrender, e.g. morals, reputation, religious fear etc. But purely deterrence of punishment is gone. I don't think it's terribly relevant in this case, but yeah in general, too harsh crimes for small offenses can actually lead a rational thinker to maximize instead of minimize additional crimes.
- astrodust 12y ago
  This is exactly why the "Three Strikes" rule is extremely dangerous. It turns a routine traffic stop into a life-or-death situation for people.