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I'm going to assume English is not your first language, because there is no other explanation as to why you can't understand what he's saying. He is clearly sa

I'm going to assume English is not your first language, because there is no other explanation as to why you can't understand what he's saying. He is clearly saying that the typical programmer at the time thought virtual machines and garbage collection were ridiculous because of their perceived lack of efficiency. He never says he agrees with that assessment. He is simply demonstrating what the common arguments were against Java at the time, and if you were programming back then you know he's correct - plenty of programmers were not convinced, and they were wrong. > But let's not make this a language wars style "Nyer nyer you're wrong because I said. C is a virus. This is not a language war. Lisp was my language of choice fifteen years ago, and is still one of my favorites.

harry8 12y ago
I don't know why I'm bothering with this. Forlorn hope of communication? Belief that HN can be worthy? Ridiculous idealism? Character flaw? Starting 8:57 note this is direct quote, word for word accurate so that all the surrounding context is right there. "Then java comes along and yes, java had a lot of, um, questionable decisions, but ah, some of the things that were brought along were the idea of virtual machines and garbage collection which when java first appeared were still ridiculous concepts that could never be efficient enough. And there was... And you can see the pattern of argument there's "Oh well it will never be efficient enough." And of course now we've had enough time to not really think about the efficiency of virtual machines and garbage collection it's basically proven - we've had faster and faster hardware and we realize our time is much better spent in um using a higher level language than it is chasing some of the bugs that happen without this kind of stuff." --Bruce Eckel So there it is. Transcribed and checked. I'm not going mad (or at least this isn't further evidence of it). My assessment in the wider context of the surrounding quote looks completely accurate. Sweeping, nuance free generalization and ignorance of things that existed, commercially prior to Java. You may look at it squarely and decide to revisit your comments. I think he really does agree with the comments he is making himself while he's making them. I have no idea why you're understanding something else that he isn't saying and putting words in his mouth that aren't there. If he meant something different to what he said, ok, he should have said something different to communicate the different thing, yeah? It doesn't usually pay to make assumptions based on no evidence so I'm not making any. Revisiting this whole thread it looks about as pointless as the time dropped on the video. I shouldn't tar scala with that brush though, it may not be representative of either the language or its community.
- twic 12y ago
  I'm afraid that it does seem to me as if you have misunderstood what Eckel said. He doesn't claim that Java introduced virtual machines, or that virtual machines were too slow to use, he claims that Java introduced virtual machines to a new audience who thought they were too slow to use.
  - harry8 12y ago
    But forgot to say "to a new audience" ?? But you knew what he meant because? He really didn't say it. What he said is actually what he said. Yeah ok, so I'm wrong every downvote proves it as does all these responses reacting to things that literally were not said. I think we really can call this whole post, thread and all discussion of it a total bust.

harry8 12y ago

I don't know why I'm bothering with this. Forlorn hope of communication? Belief that HN can be worthy? Ridiculous idealism? Character flaw? Starting 8:57 note this is direct quote, word for word accurate so that all the surrounding context is right there. "Then java comes along and yes, java had a lot of, um, questionable decisions, but ah, some of the things that were brought along were the idea of virtual machines and garbage collection which when java first appeared were still ridiculous concepts that could never be efficient enough. And there was... And you can see the pattern of argument there's "Oh well it will never be efficient enough." And of course now we've had enough time to not really think about the efficiency of virtual machines and garbage collection it's basically proven - we've had faster and faster hardware and we realize our time is much better spent in um using a higher level language than it is chasing some of the bugs that happen without this kind of stuff." --Bruce Eckel So there it is. Transcribed and checked. I'm not going mad (or at least this isn't further evidence of it). My assessment in the wider context of the surrounding quote looks completely accurate. Sweeping, nuance free generalization and ignorance of things that existed, commercially prior to Java. You may look at it squarely and decide to revisit your comments. I think he really does agree with the comments he is making himself while he's making them. I have no idea why you're understanding something else that he isn't saying and putting words in his mouth that aren't there. If he meant something different to what he said, ok, he should have said something different to communicate the different thing, yeah? It doesn't usually pay to make assumptions based on no evidence so I'm not making any. Revisiting this whole thread it looks about as pointless as the time dropped on the video. I shouldn't tar scala with that brush though, it may not be representative of either the language or its community.

twic 12y ago
I'm afraid that it does seem to me as if you have misunderstood what Eckel said. He doesn't claim that Java introduced virtual machines, or that virtual machines were too slow to use, he claims that Java introduced virtual machines to a new audience who thought they were too slow to use.
- harry8 12y ago
  But forgot to say "to a new audience" ?? But you knew what he meant because? He really didn't say it. What he said is actually what he said. Yeah ok, so I'm wrong every downvote proves it as does all these responses reacting to things that literally were not said. I think we really can call this whole post, thread and all discussion of it a total bust.