16 ms·

French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

375 points by woogle 11y ago

Fiahil 11y ago
> Les traitements automatisés repèrent des comportements suspects, non pas des personnes pré-identifiées It's actually worse. Listening to all communications in the hope of catching something suspect is the exact thing that make this law extremely dangerous.
- olivierlacan 11y ago
  Yep, it's called anomaly hunting: http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/anomaly-hunting/ http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/anomaly-hunting... It's very bad.
gerty 11y ago
French National Assembly has 577 delegates. According to Le Monde article, 25 voted for and 5 against. The rest, I suppose, didn't care to show up. This is beyond WTF. I am a client at OVH and Gandi and I hope they send a big FU to the French government and relocate. I am willing to pay a premium for that.
- infinity0 11y ago
  How the fuck does 25/577 make quorum? Do they not have this concept?
  - d0vs 11y ago
    Nope, it was the same thing with Hadopi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HADOPI_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HADOPI_law
  - espadrine 11y ago
    There always was an issue of people being absent at the Assembly, so that concept was hard to enforce. It is usually not that bad, though. I think the low number is due to allegiance to a party. Socialists felt like they had to vote in agreement to their party leaders to advance their careers, but to avoid backslash from the press and the public, many didn't show up. Their opposition, the right wing, always was big on tighter consumer control and surveillance. The previous president famously had speeches where he described his ambition to wash out undesirables with Kärcher, and he made some waves during his mandate as Minister of the Interior when he talked about his intention to track immigrants. Since he is still considered important in their party, I suppose many had the same dilemma and didn't come.
    - mercurial 11y ago
      > Since he is still considered important in their party He is, in fact, the current head of the main conservative party, and will no doubt be presidential candidate in 2017. > I suppose many had the same dilemma and didn't come. I suspect the dilemma was more about avoiding to support the current majority too openly. As you said, nobody will mistake the UMP for a bastion of privacy and individual freedoms.
    - higherpurpose 11y ago
      That's unacceptable. In most other countries if a certain number of members is not reached, then you can't vote on the law. What kind of democracy is that where only 5% of the representatives vote on a certain law? Does France have a Constitutional Court at least?
      - vog 11y ago
        > What kind of democracy is that where only 5% of the representatives vote on a certain law I'm not familar with France, but whenever that happens in Germany, they ensure that the correct proportions (regardingthe parties/fractions) are maintained.
      - pikzen 11y ago
        We have a Consitutional Council, and they're somewhat useful. They censored the "graduated riposte" part of the HADOPI law a few years back. We do not have a Constitutional Court. The Fifth Republic was explicitly created to give more power to the government and as such abstained from creating such courts.
- espadrine 11y ago
  I believe this still has to be approved by the Senate, right? I'd expect that law to be distorted into a weird red tape system with virtually no power, but that will still get passed just so the politicians can say they have passed some law. > In response, the government proposed a few hours before the vote a new amendment supposed to appease the hosting providers. If adopted, it lets them to define the separation between "metadata and content." I'd expect most providers would say that they don't have any metadata, and that they would designate /dev/null as their black box.
  - mercurial 11y ago
    > I'd expect that law to be distorted into a weird red tape system with virtually no power, but that will still get passed just so the politicians can say they have passed some law. I doubt it. They already have a well-oiled surveillance machine, they do not want to make it harder to operate while legalizing it. I do not expect the senate to alter the law significantly.
- zz1 11y ago
  They announced that they are going to relocate, indeed: https://eu.ovh.com/fr/news/articles/a1743.le-gouvernement-veut-il-contraindre-les-hebergeurs-internet-a-l-exil https://eu.ovh.com/fr/news/articles/a1743.le-gouvernement-ve... And launched a big initiative to federate tech actors against the bill: http://ni-pigeons-ni-espions.fr/ http://ni-pigeons-ni-espions.fr/ ######## Breaking ######## Octave Klaba finally declares that the bill doesn't compromise the trust chain. https://twitter.com/olesovhcom/status/588666965755092993 https://twitter.com/olesovhcom/status/588666965755092993
  - Joona 11y ago
    Did they release an English translation of that? (Google Translate link: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Feu.ovh.com%2Ffr%2Fnews%2Farticles%2Fa1743.le-gouvernement-veut-il-contraindre-les-hebergeurs-internet-a-l-exil https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&u=https%3... )
    - zz1 11y ago
      Not that I am aware of.
  - juliendorra 11y ago
    They are not really saying they will relocate, and obviously OVH invested dozens, maybe hundreds, of millions in new data centers and fibers. Their business is based on real locations, in real buildings and you can't change that easily. They are saying that it will most likely alter their growth and ability to attracts new customers. They may freeze new data center projects in France, but even that might be unlikely as they have a massive customer base in France. Of course OVH already have several data centers outside of France, in Canada for example. That doesn't help us french people, as our traffic will be inspected from where ever it is coming and going, as long as it originate here.
    - zz1 11y ago
      They are indeed, and Octave told they are chaning their business plan.
- dagw 11y ago
  The rest, I suppose, didn't care to show up. I'm assuming it's largely strategic. "Everybody" wanted to pass the bill, but no one wanted it on their voting record since they knew it was controversial. So everybody got together and selected a small number of martyrs to go sully themselves while everybody else could keep their hands clean.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - walterbell 11y ago
    Does that make it easier to reverse later?
  - ddoolin 11y ago
    Why would they want it to pass? What benefit are they reaping from such a thing?
    - pfortuny 11y ago
      It is a law against TERROR: you cannot oppose it!
  - cm2187 11y ago
    In all fairness no one really watches voting records in France like people do in the US. Most of the time most French MP don't bother showing up, even for important votes. Particularly if they are late at night.
  - LLWM 11y ago
    Or the simpler explanation is true - most of them didn't bother to vote because they don't give a shit.
  - talideon 11y ago
    By dodging the vote, they effectively voted for it. Cowards.
- chinathrow 11y ago
  My take is that they won't relocate due to customers needing very low latency to the french eyeball providers.
- maccard 11y ago
  I've never understood this - why is it allowed that they don't show up for these votes? (Not just in france)
  - adsche 11y ago
    In Germany, ususally bills are discussed by smaller subsets of the parliament in committees. Parties then decide on a party line for the vote. Thus, most often the result would not be different if everybody was there. Edit: Also, because of limited time, commitee meetings may actually be held while there are votes. So it does make sense. NB: The German parliament however can technically not decide anything if not enough members are present. However, usually attendees are not counted. Parties can demand a named vote though, which is counted. One party demanded that once, and it was almost universially called 'unfair' [1]. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [1] (in German) http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/posse-um-hammelsprung-die-linke-hat-wohl-ein-rad-ab-a-904364.html http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/posse-um-hammelspr...
  - seszett 11y ago
    People do not have to have an opinion on everything, do they? It doesn't really work that way today, but in an ideal world I would find it good that the 30 people who understand computers vote while the 337 others abstain. Also, I'm not sure how it works in other countries, but in France deputies usually have another job, you can't expect them to go to Paris on every wednesday to vote on things they don't even really know about.
    - harshreality 11y ago
      It might also be 30 people who know nothing about computers but have an agenda. The way to get informed votes on technical laws is to carefully and transparently construct councils or committees whose members are technically competent. Give those councils the power to vote on technical laws, binding the main legislature to the result of such votes. You can't have a voting body without a quorum rule and say it's to allow the subset of the representatives who understand the subject matter to vote. That's unenforceable and will be abused for political purposes far more often than it's used because the few representatives voting are the ones who genuinely understand the proposed law. Quorum rules are critical for basic sanity in operation of a governmental body charged with voting. It's a pathetic excuse that they have other jobs, and they can't show up most of the time. A few U.S. States had that sentiment, and what they do is have the legislature meet only a few months every year or two. There's no reason they couldn't have an online voting system for representatives, either. The intelligence agencies of France and FVEY can't skew the votes by breaking the cryptosystem used for online voting if the voting record is published and the representatives verify that their votes were counted correctly. One barrier to doing this is probably that on some issues, representatives don't want their votes recorded; they want voice votes. (I'm guessing France does that most of the time; the U.S. certainly does.)
- worklogin 11y ago
  Does the French legislature not have Quorum requirements? That seems like a poor design.
olivierlacan 11y ago
La Quadrature du Net (French EFF equivalent) posted a campaign website with a rundown of which députés (congresspeople) are in favor or against the bill: https://sous-surveillance.fr https://sous-surveillance.fr Also had VOIP phone to contact députés. Many were and avoided questions or said they would toe the party line. Evidence here: https://pad.lqdn.fr/p/PJLdeputes https://pad.lqdn.fr/p/PJLdeputes
steamy 11y ago
It just took ONE small-scale false flag operation "Charlie Hebdo" for the French people to give up their rights and for their predatory security apparatus to jump and devour them.
- yodsanklai 11y ago
  > the French people by French people you mean a few representatives?
  - mercurial 11y ago
    The fact that only 30 of them bothered to show up tells you everything you need to know about the rest, really.
- tomtoise 11y ago
  "False Flag" is quite an assertion to be making. Do you have proof..?
  - borgia 11y ago
    Not the person you're replying to but I'll answer anyway. The theory that the Charlie Hebdo attacks was a false flag attack was raised by Paul Craig Roberts of the Reagan administration.[1] I find it a pretty incredible claim, but it's coming from a somewhat credible source regardless. Coupled with the fact that we do know false flag operations have been used and planned for use in the past, it's not hard to see why it's a theory given weight to. [1]http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/january/14/charlie-hebdo-shootings-false-flag/ http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2...
    - mercurial 11y ago
      The point raised in your link about "Why would Muslims be more outraged by cartoons in a Paris magazine than by hundreds of thousands of Muslims killed by Washington and its French and NATO vassals in seven countries during the past 14 years?" doesn't make sense considering the recent attack in Copenhagen, a planned assault against Jylland-Posten from a few years back, and the murder attempt of one of the Danish cartoonist. Unless you want to believe they were all false flag operations, but that's really going far. I'll also point out that the Hyper Casher gunman was linked to the Kouachi (and even gave a TV interview). The timing of the suicide, on the other hand, is certainly odd.
AdrienChey 11y ago
Most of what the law is allowing, was already done before. It's more about legalizing some illicit methods, even if methods are debatable...
- zz1 11y ago
  Widely adopted behaviours can't be legalized simply because of their widespread. Do that with murder…
  - thaumasiotes 11y ago
    Sure they can. For most of history murder was broadly legal (that's the beauty of really small government). ;)
- higherpurpose 11y ago
  The problem is when the government quickly passes such a law with no debate. Worse than that, when only 5% of the representatives pass such a law...
pikzen 11y ago
La Quadrature du Net has also affirmed that while they were demonstrating in front of the National Assembly, there were two IMSI Catchers. And the law wasn't even passed yet. Great example of what will happen. (http://www.franceinfo.fr/actu/politique/article/des-appareils-pour-espionner-les-conversations-pres-d-une-manifestation-contre-la-loi-sur-le-668469 http://www.franceinfo.fr/actu/politique/article/des-appareil... link in french, can provide a translation if needed) Bernard Cazeneuve, our ministre de l'Intérieur (Tasked with internal security, i.e. police etc.) has also declared the right to private life to not be a freedom. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WODKfxtJQbE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WODKfxtJQbE) This law was voted by 30 delegates. From a total of 577. This is what we can expect of our National Assembly. I expected a bit more of them considering they were 40 (!) to debate it. And they were granted a whole two minutes to explain themselves. To debate a law that allows bypassing judges, installing black boxes (read: DPI tools) anywhere without needing a judge, and quite a few more fun things. To any french reader here (or any reader in a country whose laws explicitly allow this type of mass surveilance) : * Use LetsEncrypt to get an SSL certificate for your website (or selfsign one with the proper configuration). Not that this will matter much because this law will allow them to ask you to hand over your private keys * Use TrueCrypt v 7.1a, the latest and audited version for you hard drive, or use LUKS if you're on Linux. * Use TextSecure and RedPhone. While I'm not aware of any recent audits, it's a hundred times better than going through regular channels. * Use Pidgin+OffTheRecord for your private chats. I am so fucking mad. And have no doubts, the senate will pass this. The worst (best) that could happend to this law is a few minor changes, but the key points will stay. And I doubt our constitutional council will reject it.
- Nusyne 11y ago
  TextSecure is either Text (SMS, which are not encrypted), OR secure (data). Not both simultaneously.
  - pikzen 11y ago
    Yeah, I'm referring to the part where they use data. That said, didn't WhisperSystems remove the SMS part recently ? Or was it just SMS encryption ?
bontoJR 11y ago
First step in the wrong direction.
RBO2 11y ago
It is not a hasard to have this kind of laws in France. France hasn't known dictatorship for long. French representatives don't know what a Stasi-like security state would look like. It would be harder to have such a law in Germany. The low number of delegates during the vote whows how archaic the French politic system is: they are against their own party so they prefer to be missing. There is little discussion. And there is no way to make a petition in France that would go to the parliament or provoke a referendum. France just shows how current institutions are overwhelmed by new technologies.
- pierrec 11y ago
  You probably meant "Its not by chance that France get this kind of law". Because "Not a hasard" (hazard) means "not dangerous", making your whole post confusing.
  - jamiek88 11y ago
    He meant it's not a hazard to the politicians careers to introduce such a law as the public don't really know what it means in reality unlike Germany say who have such direct experience, I think.
    - louhike 11y ago
      I think the OP you respond to is right. It is a common mistake for french persons.
- thesimon 11y ago
  >It would be harder to have such a law in Germany. No, we already have this law. Companies with over 10k users need to install a black box to make easy access for the state. There is also a proposal to save communication for 8 weeks, of course just to protect against terrorists.
  - bjelkeman-again 11y ago
    Is that so? How are the 10k users defined? Where can one read more about this?
termdefined 11y ago
Charlie Hebdo was indeed a zionist false flag and this is a reaction to it. Which country is next to join our new world order?
koalaman 11y ago
Just curious, is this different from what the nsa is doing in the US?
- zz1 11y ago
  Not really.
- eloisant 11y ago
  Well, the NSA was really pissed when Snowden revealed they did it secretly but France is passing a law to do it officially.
  - agumonkey 11y ago
    I don't know if being open and going through the legal means is better than secretly spying.
    - realityking 11y ago
      If that's the only two alternatives, it's absolutely preferably to it being in the open. This at least allows to have an open discussion like it's worthy of democracy.
      - agumonkey 11y ago
        I agree but there's always a tiny 'ignorance is bliss' ring in my head while I'm thinking about it.
    - nske 11y ago
      I think it is better, in the way that if enough people care about it, there will be strong reactions which will pressure the senate to not sign it and the parliament to withdraw it. And if not, well, cynical as it might be, the people's majority will have gotten what they deserved, without having a good excuse (not knowing) and only the few that cared will be the real victims.
  - fiatjaf 11y ago
fzn 11y ago
French president Hollande is visiting Lausanne, Switzerland this afternoon. His trains supposedly arrives at 3:20 at Prilly-Malley station. He will then proceed to the EPFL (Polytechnic school). [Full schedule http://files.newsnetz.ch/story/3/0/0/30072626/11/topelement.jpg http://files.newsnetz.ch/story/3/0/0/30072626/11/topelement.... ] Allegedly to protect the people, the object of that law is rather to decriminalize and widen the PM's surveillance capabilities. The law just exempted french agents for any illegal data acquisition done on foreign targets. One of the seven goals the law encompasses is "major scientific and economic interests". Don't deal with France, starting from may 6th. Kudos to the couple deputies that show concern and bear with the long hours and kafkaesque atmosphere. Mandatory handling of encryption keys on request is also part of the package. Hosters and ISPs like it. "DPI algorithms shall remain secret, for they'll lose their effectiveness otherwise." Such StO. Oversight over it all will be restricted to a 7-ish member court. We must not remain silent as France openly turns into a police state.
- Forbo 11y ago
  Forgive my ignorance, but what is StO? I couldn't find anything in my searches.
mtanski 11y ago
Can anyone point to an alternative to Gandhi.net for domains / SSL? Works well, good service, not godaddy.
- s0l1dsnak3123 11y ago
  namecheap is pretty good
- UVB-76 11y ago
  I've never understood the cult of Gandi on HN. They're overpriced, and in my experience, their customer service is disgusting. I would never recommend them. Namecheap are cheaper, better, and have done more for HN-related causes than Gandi ever will.
- adventured 11y ago
  I use and recommend namecheap for SSL certs. Very easy, very cost effective. Haven't had a problem with them in the last few years of use.
D3_4dl1N3 11y ago
There is a theory that says that the terrorist attacks, and the rise of violence and crime are caused (at least allowed) by decision makers and governors. There is a lot of money at stake...
jacquesm 11y ago
Suggested improvement to the French political system: if < 50% of the delegates are present there is no quorum and no laws can be passed.
- dest 11y ago
  government has a majority in the French assembly. The result would have been the same with more deputies: law would have passed. Each deputy seems specialized in a few fields and does not attend discussions to have time to work on other things (mayor, meetings,...) So, not sure if quorum > 50% would be useful.
  - cm2187 11y ago
    ...to work or not. Some of them never show up at the parliement. But laws are not really discussed in the main chamber. The way it works is that laws are really discussed, debated and modified in commissions, and the main vote is only for the TV, and for MPs to demonstrate publicly their opposition.
- Luc 11y ago
  Aren't most European democracies 'particracies' nowadays? Delegates vote as they are told by the party leadership.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    Yes, but it would at least hamstring their ability to make law 'in absence', they'd have to show up and formally register assent, dissent or not vote. That way they would not be able to pretend they had nothing to do with it.
alifaizan 11y ago
Well I guess we will see a huge spike in the VPN usage like we did in Australia. http://www.bestvpnprovider.com/australia-vpn/ http://www.bestvpnprovider.com/australia-vpn/
Messiah_ 11y ago
Does anyone know what kind of metadata they will be logging? Are they logging every HTTP request that comes out of my computer for instance? (Including my user agent, the specific page I visited etc.)
- chinathrow 11y ago
  If the law is so permissive as described, I bet someone will go for the full take.
  - Messiah_ 11y ago
    What do you mean by full take precisely?
    - M2Ys4U 11y ago
      Everything.
    - chinathrow 11y ago
      As said, everything. Take everything, analyse later, break crypto even later. If encrypted or not, doesn't matter to these folks. Their buddies at GCHQ do the same, remember?
- jackjeff 11y ago
  In general, this kind of details would not be part of the "law" but would be published in a "decree" cooked up by the executive branch when they decide to "apply" the law. In this case, it's going to be kept secret and covered by some kind of "security clearance". That would make it a criminal offense to divulge these details. The law explicitly limit this to the "meta data" of the communication, and not the content. And finally, publishing these details would defeat the whole purpose of the enterprise. The NSA does not publish details about the meta-data they collect in the PRISM database, and they charged the Snowden for the little that he revealed about the program. The French are essentially doing the same thing. The NSA has some limitations about when US citizens meta data can be collected domestically. The French law has no such provision.
Smrchy 11y ago
Richard Stallman wrote https://stallman.org/millions.html https://stallman.org/millions.html a few days after the 9/11 attacks. Sadly still so true. The attacks from January 2015 have led to this horrible secondary damage.
tempodox 11y ago
So, will the National Surveillance Agency file a patent suit or copyright infringement? After all, the French clearly stole the U.S.'s recipe of destroying civil rights & democracy.
c2prods 11y ago
THIRTY FUCKING ASSHOLES. There are 577 deputies in France and only 30 of them are present to vote Big Brother. Fortunately, there are several steps to go: it has to be approved by the Senate and then the Conseil Constitutionnel (in charge of the Constitution) might still reject it. Nevertheless, this proves how much our political leaders DO NOT understand the Internet.
- Ragnarork 11y ago
  Actually, five voted against, so you may want to revise that number of assholes :)
fiatjaf 11y ago
At least there the Congress approved the changes, while in the US everything is hidden from the citizens. Which means that the french people are socialists in their hearts.
rihegher 11y ago
the law draft in english http://wiki.laquadrature.net/Patching_the_French_Intelligence_Bill http://wiki.laquadrature.net/Patching_the_French_Intelligenc...
anoplus 11y ago
Is there anyone here believes we need open government and liquid democracy?
elros 11y ago
Oh, la merde =/
- mercurial 11y ago
  "Oh, merde"
  - fermigier 11y ago
    "Et merde!"
    - elros 11y ago
      Non, non, c'est bien "la merde" que je voulais dire... :-)
realusername 11y ago
(French here). This was quite expected, the government slowly adopted more and more laws to restrict freedom and to watch everyone during the past ten years, this is not the first nor the last law, this is just another step for the next law which will be even worse. The government is even censoring comments on social media about the law when it's not going in their direction (I'm not even joking). The French democracy has been completely broken for a long time and a few relics from the past are still working now. The times when the country was called "the land of the human rights" are long gone. I see a few people trying to contact their representative but it's already too late, the democracy is gone, forget about it, it will just slow things down a bit but that's all, the politicians in power are too corrupted and the system too broken for that to work. The best solution now for us now is the technical one, to prevent them to do it. But even that solution is temporary, one day or an other, when they will start to attack random citizens, things will have to change... as the quote is saying, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.".
- throwafrenchman 11y ago
  > The government is even censoring comments on social media about the law when it's not going in their direction Do you have a source for that? I'm genuinely curious.
  - pikzen 11y ago
    OP is going a bit far, but I believe he's referring to http://www.numerama.com/magazine/32780-loi-renseignement-quand-le-ministere-de-justice-trahit-la-pensee-de-taubira.html http://www.numerama.com/magazine/32780-loi-renseignement-qua... Basically, our Defense Minister's twitter account posted a quote of Christiane Taubira (the Defense Minister) saying "It is obvious that the methods of retrieval [of data] are potentially endangering private life". It was quickly removed.
  - yann63 11y ago
    Here it is (in French, but with screen captures): http://www.numerama.com/magazine/32802-loi-renseignement-le-gouvernement-censure-les-critiques-de-sa-propagande.html http://www.numerama.com/magazine/32802-loi-renseignement-le-...
UserRights 11y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillotine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillotine
MrBra 11y ago
No one of you Frenchs using HN has traslated the article to English yet? This does not help!
- maccard 11y ago
  Really? You couldn't be bothered to put the article into google translate? https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lemonde.fr%2Fpixels%2Farticle%2F2015%2F04%2F16%2Fles-deputes-approuvent-un-systeme-de-surveillance-du-trafic-sur-internet_4616652_4408996.html&edit-text=&act=url https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&... (Sorry for long link)
  - MrBra 11y ago
    I could be bothered, but I was talking about a human made, good and clear translation. Had it happened in my country first thing I would have done is translate it to English and probably involve someone else to do that for other languages too, so to spread the news as much as possible. Moreover, that would also have a strong symbolical value. I find it a bit weird you're being more like "don't be lazy, couldn't you find a bad level translation yourself and be happy with it?". No. I'm not happy because you're not giving it the appropriate coverage this way. But oh well.
kaiz0ku 11y ago
Here is the amendment if anyone is interested: http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/amendements/2697/AN/437.asp http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/amendements/2697/AN/437...
maze-le 11y ago
Good Luck catching Terrorists, who are, no doubt, using VPN, Tor and Face-to-Face communication.
- fabulist 11y ago
  If they're all conveniently using the same tools, their system will work.
willieaames 11y ago
Organizations including the French Human Rights Watch, ISPs, privacy advocates and political figures have criticized the Data Retention policy before it has even been brought forward to the national assembley. The “projet de loirelatif au renseignement” or the draft law on intelligence has been scheduled for consideration on the 13th of April 2015, in addition to a one step process that will exclude revisiting the Data Retention policy for a second time. I`m going to put on internet privacy shield such as vpn: http://www.bestvpnservice.com/best-france-vpn.html http://www.bestvpnservice.com/best-france-vpn.html
bwb 11y ago
A sad day for privacy once again, governments need to fuck off and stop spying and realize some bad things are going to happen, but not at the cost of sacrificing our personal privacy.
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- louisrochal 11y ago
  The algorithm considers someone using Tor or VPNs as "suspect"
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luxpir 11y ago
Some key points from the article, translated... --- It was in a nearly empty senate that around thirty deupties cast their votes [...] on the installation of "black boxes", a controversial device designed to monitor internet traffic. [It was] approved by 25 deupties to 5 following heated debates. The plan: to force ISPs to "detect, through automated processing, a suspect succession of connection data" that appear to match patterns typically used by terrorists. In practice, this would involve installing a "black box" at ISPs to monitor traffic. The content of the communications would not be monitored, but only the metadata: the sender or receiver of a message, the IP address of a visited site... [...] "The black box is the Pandora's box of this draft law," said socialist Aurélie Filippetti in the senate. "They say that the masses of data that will flow through it will only contain metadata. But they contain even more information about the private lives of our fellow citizens! [...] And there is a paradox in saying that these data will be anonymous when they are to be used to identify terrorists". An accusation that was then defended by the government in the house, "The automated processing marks out suspect behaviour, not pre-identified persons," emphasized the Defence Minister, Jean-Yves Le Drian, "It is after that the services are able to access the identity of the persons." [...] Some deputies also pointed out the "economically damaging" consequences of these black boxes, such as the ecologist Isabelle Attard, for whom "French IT companies will see their foreign clients start to desert them as they lose their trust". Last week, seven large French hosts made their opposition to the draft clear, stating that it would push them "into exile" so as not to lose their clients. [...] The government nevertheless eluded the more technical questions throughout the debate, asked, several times, by a few deputies, among those was Laure de la Raudière (UMP), "Where are you going to install your probe on the communication networks?", "How will you optimize the algorithms?", "Will you use deep packet inspection?". Bernard Cazeneuve ended up replying to this last question, repeated several times by the deputy, "We will not use this technique at all", a technique that involves the deep inspection [translation of a translation...] of all passing communications data. Several deputies have also demanded a precise list of the type of metadata collected by the black boxes to be clearly defined. In vain. ---
fweespeech 11y ago
As sad as it is, how many countries with low cost hosting providers [e.g. OVH] don't have these sorts of laws [or might as well have them in the case of the US]? Germany/Hetzner? Literally is there no one else you can get cheap dedicated servers and avoid this kind of surveillance directly inside the DC? :/

375 points by woogle 11y ago

> Les traitements automatisés repèrent des comportements suspects, non pas des personnes pré-identifiées It's actually worse. Listening to all communications in the hope of catching something suspect is the exact thing that make this law extremely dangerous.

olivierlacan 11y ago
Yep, it's called anomaly hunting: http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/anomaly-hunting/ http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/anomaly-hunting... It's very bad.

gerty 11y ago

French National Assembly has 577 delegates. According to Le Monde article, 25 voted for and 5 against. The rest, I suppose, didn't care to show up. This is beyond WTF. I am a client at OVH and Gandi and I hope they send a big FU to the French government and relocate. I am willing to pay a premium for that.

infinity0 11y ago
How the fuck does 25/577 make quorum? Do they not have this concept?
- d0vs 11y ago
  Nope, it was the same thing with Hadopi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HADOPI_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HADOPI_law
- espadrine 11y ago
  There always was an issue of people being absent at the Assembly, so that concept was hard to enforce. It is usually not that bad, though. I think the low number is due to allegiance to a party. Socialists felt like they had to vote in agreement to their party leaders to advance their careers, but to avoid backslash from the press and the public, many didn't show up. Their opposition, the right wing, always was big on tighter consumer control and surveillance. The previous president famously had speeches where he described his ambition to wash out undesirables with Kärcher, and he made some waves during his mandate as Minister of the Interior when he talked about his intention to track immigrants. Since he is still considered important in their party, I suppose many had the same dilemma and didn't come.
  - mercurial 11y ago
    > Since he is still considered important in their party He is, in fact, the current head of the main conservative party, and will no doubt be presidential candidate in 2017. > I suppose many had the same dilemma and didn't come. I suspect the dilemma was more about avoiding to support the current majority too openly. As you said, nobody will mistake the UMP for a bastion of privacy and individual freedoms.
  - higherpurpose 11y ago
    That's unacceptable. In most other countries if a certain number of members is not reached, then you can't vote on the law. What kind of democracy is that where only 5% of the representatives vote on a certain law? Does France have a Constitutional Court at least?
    - vog 11y ago
      > What kind of democracy is that where only 5% of the representatives vote on a certain law I'm not familar with France, but whenever that happens in Germany, they ensure that the correct proportions (regardingthe parties/fractions) are maintained.
    - pikzen 11y ago
      We have a Consitutional Council, and they're somewhat useful. They censored the "graduated riposte" part of the HADOPI law a few years back. We do not have a Constitutional Court. The Fifth Republic was explicitly created to give more power to the government and as such abstained from creating such courts.
espadrine 11y ago
I believe this still has to be approved by the Senate, right? I'd expect that law to be distorted into a weird red tape system with virtually no power, but that will still get passed just so the politicians can say they have passed some law. > In response, the government proposed a few hours before the vote a new amendment supposed to appease the hosting providers. If adopted, it lets them to define the separation between "metadata and content." I'd expect most providers would say that they don't have any metadata, and that they would designate /dev/null as their black box.
- mercurial 11y ago
  > I'd expect that law to be distorted into a weird red tape system with virtually no power, but that will still get passed just so the politicians can say they have passed some law. I doubt it. They already have a well-oiled surveillance machine, they do not want to make it harder to operate while legalizing it. I do not expect the senate to alter the law significantly.
zz1 11y ago
They announced that they are going to relocate, indeed: https://eu.ovh.com/fr/news/articles/a1743.le-gouvernement-veut-il-contraindre-les-hebergeurs-internet-a-l-exil https://eu.ovh.com/fr/news/articles/a1743.le-gouvernement-ve... And launched a big initiative to federate tech actors against the bill: http://ni-pigeons-ni-espions.fr/ http://ni-pigeons-ni-espions.fr/ ######## Breaking ######## Octave Klaba finally declares that the bill doesn't compromise the trust chain. https://twitter.com/olesovhcom/status/588666965755092993 https://twitter.com/olesovhcom/status/588666965755092993
- Joona 11y ago
  Did they release an English translation of that? (Google Translate link: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Feu.ovh.com%2Ffr%2Fnews%2Farticles%2Fa1743.le-gouvernement-veut-il-contraindre-les-hebergeurs-internet-a-l-exil https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&u=https%3... )
  - zz1 11y ago
    Not that I am aware of.
- juliendorra 11y ago
  They are not really saying they will relocate, and obviously OVH invested dozens, maybe hundreds, of millions in new data centers and fibers. Their business is based on real locations, in real buildings and you can't change that easily. They are saying that it will most likely alter their growth and ability to attracts new customers. They may freeze new data center projects in France, but even that might be unlikely as they have a massive customer base in France. Of course OVH already have several data centers outside of France, in Canada for example. That doesn't help us french people, as our traffic will be inspected from where ever it is coming and going, as long as it originate here.
  - zz1 11y ago
    They are indeed, and Octave told they are chaning their business plan.
dagw 11y ago
The rest, I suppose, didn't care to show up. I'm assuming it's largely strategic. "Everybody" wanted to pass the bill, but no one wanted it on their voting record since they knew it was controversial. So everybody got together and selected a small number of martyrs to go sully themselves while everybody else could keep their hands clean.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- walterbell 11y ago
  Does that make it easier to reverse later?
- ddoolin 11y ago
  Why would they want it to pass? What benefit are they reaping from such a thing?
  - pfortuny 11y ago
    It is a law against TERROR: you cannot oppose it!
- cm2187 11y ago
  In all fairness no one really watches voting records in France like people do in the US. Most of the time most French MP don't bother showing up, even for important votes. Particularly if they are late at night.
- LLWM 11y ago
  Or the simpler explanation is true - most of them didn't bother to vote because they don't give a shit.
- talideon 11y ago
  By dodging the vote, they effectively voted for it. Cowards.
chinathrow 11y ago
My take is that they won't relocate due to customers needing very low latency to the french eyeball providers.
maccard 11y ago
I've never understood this - why is it allowed that they don't show up for these votes? (Not just in france)
- adsche 11y ago
  In Germany, ususally bills are discussed by smaller subsets of the parliament in committees. Parties then decide on a party line for the vote. Thus, most often the result would not be different if everybody was there. Edit: Also, because of limited time, commitee meetings may actually be held while there are votes. So it does make sense. NB: The German parliament however can technically not decide anything if not enough members are present. However, usually attendees are not counted. Parties can demand a named vote though, which is counted. One party demanded that once, and it was almost universially called 'unfair' [1]. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [1] (in German) http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/posse-um-hammelsprung-die-linke-hat-wohl-ein-rad-ab-a-904364.html http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/posse-um-hammelspr...
- seszett 11y ago
  People do not have to have an opinion on everything, do they? It doesn't really work that way today, but in an ideal world I would find it good that the 30 people who understand computers vote while the 337 others abstain. Also, I'm not sure how it works in other countries, but in France deputies usually have another job, you can't expect them to go to Paris on every wednesday to vote on things they don't even really know about.
  - harshreality 11y ago
    It might also be 30 people who know nothing about computers but have an agenda. The way to get informed votes on technical laws is to carefully and transparently construct councils or committees whose members are technically competent. Give those councils the power to vote on technical laws, binding the main legislature to the result of such votes. You can't have a voting body without a quorum rule and say it's to allow the subset of the representatives who understand the subject matter to vote. That's unenforceable and will be abused for political purposes far more often than it's used because the few representatives voting are the ones who genuinely understand the proposed law. Quorum rules are critical for basic sanity in operation of a governmental body charged with voting. It's a pathetic excuse that they have other jobs, and they can't show up most of the time. A few U.S. States had that sentiment, and what they do is have the legislature meet only a few months every year or two. There's no reason they couldn't have an online voting system for representatives, either. The intelligence agencies of France and FVEY can't skew the votes by breaking the cryptosystem used for online voting if the voting record is published and the representatives verify that their votes were counted correctly. One barrier to doing this is probably that on some issues, representatives don't want their votes recorded; they want voice votes. (I'm guessing France does that most of the time; the U.S. certainly does.)
worklogin 11y ago
Does the French legislature not have Quorum requirements? That seems like a poor design.

olivierlacan 11y ago

La Quadrature du Net (French EFF equivalent) posted a campaign website with a rundown of which députés (congresspeople) are in favor or against the bill: https://sous-surveillance.fr https://sous-surveillance.fr Also had VOIP phone to contact députés. Many were and avoided questions or said they would toe the party line. Evidence here: https://pad.lqdn.fr/p/PJLdeputes https://pad.lqdn.fr/p/PJLdeputes

steamy 11y ago

It just took ONE small-scale false flag operation "Charlie Hebdo" for the French people to give up their rights and for their predatory security apparatus to jump and devour them.

yodsanklai 11y ago
> the French people by French people you mean a few representatives?
- mercurial 11y ago
  The fact that only 30 of them bothered to show up tells you everything you need to know about the rest, really.
tomtoise 11y ago
"False Flag" is quite an assertion to be making. Do you have proof..?
- borgia 11y ago
  Not the person you're replying to but I'll answer anyway. The theory that the Charlie Hebdo attacks was a false flag attack was raised by Paul Craig Roberts of the Reagan administration.[1] I find it a pretty incredible claim, but it's coming from a somewhat credible source regardless. Coupled with the fact that we do know false flag operations have been used and planned for use in the past, it's not hard to see why it's a theory given weight to. [1]http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/january/14/charlie-hebdo-shootings-false-flag/ http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2...
  - mercurial 11y ago
    The point raised in your link about "Why would Muslims be more outraged by cartoons in a Paris magazine than by hundreds of thousands of Muslims killed by Washington and its French and NATO vassals in seven countries during the past 14 years?" doesn't make sense considering the recent attack in Copenhagen, a planned assault against Jylland-Posten from a few years back, and the murder attempt of one of the Danish cartoonist. Unless you want to believe they were all false flag operations, but that's really going far. I'll also point out that the Hyper Casher gunman was linked to the Kouachi (and even gave a TV interview). The timing of the suicide, on the other hand, is certainly odd.

AdrienChey 11y ago

Most of what the law is allowing, was already done before. It's more about legalizing some illicit methods, even if methods are debatable...

zz1 11y ago
Widely adopted behaviours can't be legalized simply because of their widespread. Do that with murder…
- thaumasiotes 11y ago
  Sure they can. For most of history murder was broadly legal (that's the beauty of really small government). ;)
higherpurpose 11y ago
The problem is when the government quickly passes such a law with no debate. Worse than that, when only 5% of the representatives pass such a law...

pikzen 11y ago

La Quadrature du Net has also affirmed that while they were demonstrating in front of the National Assembly, there were two IMSI Catchers. And the law wasn't even passed yet. Great example of what will happen. (http://www.franceinfo.fr/actu/politique/article/des-appareils-pour-espionner-les-conversations-pres-d-une-manifestation-contre-la-loi-sur-le-668469 http://www.franceinfo.fr/actu/politique/article/des-appareil... link in french, can provide a translation if needed) Bernard Cazeneuve, our ministre de l'Intérieur (Tasked with internal security, i.e. police etc.) has also declared the right to private life to not be a freedom. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WODKfxtJQbE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WODKfxtJQbE) This law was voted by 30 delegates. From a total of 577. This is what we can expect of our National Assembly. I expected a bit more of them considering they were 40 (!) to debate it. And they were granted a whole two minutes to explain themselves. To debate a law that allows bypassing judges, installing black boxes (read: DPI tools) anywhere without needing a judge, and quite a few more fun things. To any french reader here (or any reader in a country whose laws explicitly allow this type of mass surveilance) : * Use LetsEncrypt to get an SSL certificate for your website (or selfsign one with the proper configuration). Not that this will matter much because this law will allow them to ask you to hand over your private keys * Use TrueCrypt v 7.1a, the latest and audited version for you hard drive, or use LUKS if you're on Linux. * Use TextSecure and RedPhone. While I'm not aware of any recent audits, it's a hundred times better than going through regular channels. * Use Pidgin+OffTheRecord for your private chats. I am so fucking mad. And have no doubts, the senate will pass this. The worst (best) that could happend to this law is a few minor changes, but the key points will stay. And I doubt our constitutional council will reject it.

Nusyne 11y ago
TextSecure is either Text (SMS, which are not encrypted), OR secure (data). Not both simultaneously.
- pikzen 11y ago
  Yeah, I'm referring to the part where they use data. That said, didn't WhisperSystems remove the SMS part recently ? Or was it just SMS encryption ?

bontoJR 11y ago

First step in the wrong direction.

RBO2 11y ago

It is not a hasard to have this kind of laws in France. France hasn't known dictatorship for long. French representatives don't know what a Stasi-like security state would look like. It would be harder to have such a law in Germany. The low number of delegates during the vote whows how archaic the French politic system is: they are against their own party so they prefer to be missing. There is little discussion. And there is no way to make a petition in France that would go to the parliament or provoke a referendum. France just shows how current institutions are overwhelmed by new technologies.

pierrec 11y ago
You probably meant "Its not by chance that France get this kind of law". Because "Not a hasard" (hazard) means "not dangerous", making your whole post confusing.
- jamiek88 11y ago
  He meant it's not a hazard to the politicians careers to introduce such a law as the public don't really know what it means in reality unlike Germany say who have such direct experience, I think.
  - louhike 11y ago
    I think the OP you respond to is right. It is a common mistake for french persons.
thesimon 11y ago
>It would be harder to have such a law in Germany. No, we already have this law. Companies with over 10k users need to install a black box to make easy access for the state. There is also a proposal to save communication for 8 weeks, of course just to protect against terrorists.
- bjelkeman-again 11y ago
  Is that so? How are the 10k users defined? Where can one read more about this?

termdefined 11y ago

Charlie Hebdo was indeed a zionist false flag and this is a reaction to it. Which country is next to join our new world order?

koalaman 11y ago

Just curious, is this different from what the nsa is doing in the US?

zz1 11y ago
Not really.
eloisant 11y ago
Well, the NSA was really pissed when Snowden revealed they did it secretly but France is passing a law to do it officially.
- agumonkey 11y ago
  I don't know if being open and going through the legal means is better than secretly spying.
  - realityking 11y ago
    If that's the only two alternatives, it's absolutely preferably to it being in the open. This at least allows to have an open discussion like it's worthy of democracy.
    - agumonkey 11y ago
      I agree but there's always a tiny 'ignorance is bliss' ring in my head while I'm thinking about it.
  - nske 11y ago
    I think it is better, in the way that if enough people care about it, there will be strong reactions which will pressure the senate to not sign it and the parliament to withdraw it. And if not, well, cynical as it might be, the people's majority will have gotten what they deserved, without having a good excuse (not knowing) and only the few that cared will be the real victims.
- fiatjaf 11y ago

fzn 11y ago

French president Hollande is visiting Lausanne, Switzerland this afternoon. His trains supposedly arrives at 3:20 at Prilly-Malley station. He will then proceed to the EPFL (Polytechnic school). [Full schedule http://files.newsnetz.ch/story/3/0/0/30072626/11/topelement.jpg http://files.newsnetz.ch/story/3/0/0/30072626/11/topelement.... ] Allegedly to protect the people, the object of that law is rather to decriminalize and widen the PM's surveillance capabilities. The law just exempted french agents for any illegal data acquisition done on foreign targets. One of the seven goals the law encompasses is "major scientific and economic interests". Don't deal with France, starting from may 6th. Kudos to the couple deputies that show concern and bear with the long hours and kafkaesque atmosphere. Mandatory handling of encryption keys on request is also part of the package. Hosters and ISPs like it. "DPI algorithms shall remain secret, for they'll lose their effectiveness otherwise." Such StO. Oversight over it all will be restricted to a 7-ish member court. We must not remain silent as France openly turns into a police state.

Forbo 11y ago
Forgive my ignorance, but what is StO? I couldn't find anything in my searches.

mtanski 11y ago

Can anyone point to an alternative to Gandhi.net for domains / SSL? Works well, good service, not godaddy.

s0l1dsnak3123 11y ago
namecheap is pretty good
UVB-76 11y ago
I've never understood the cult of Gandi on HN. They're overpriced, and in my experience, their customer service is disgusting. I would never recommend them. Namecheap are cheaper, better, and have done more for HN-related causes than Gandi ever will.
adventured 11y ago
I use and recommend namecheap for SSL certs. Very easy, very cost effective. Haven't had a problem with them in the last few years of use.

D3_4dl1N3 11y ago

There is a theory that says that the terrorist attacks, and the rise of violence and crime are caused (at least allowed) by decision makers and governors. There is a lot of money at stake...

jacquesm 11y ago

Suggested improvement to the French political system: if < 50% of the delegates are present there is no quorum and no laws can be passed.

dest 11y ago
government has a majority in the French assembly. The result would have been the same with more deputies: law would have passed. Each deputy seems specialized in a few fields and does not attend discussions to have time to work on other things (mayor, meetings,...) So, not sure if quorum > 50% would be useful.
- cm2187 11y ago
  ...to work or not. Some of them never show up at the parliement. But laws are not really discussed in the main chamber. The way it works is that laws are really discussed, debated and modified in commissions, and the main vote is only for the TV, and for MPs to demonstrate publicly their opposition.
Luc 11y ago
Aren't most European democracies 'particracies' nowadays? Delegates vote as they are told by the party leadership.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  Yes, but it would at least hamstring their ability to make law 'in absence', they'd have to show up and formally register assent, dissent or not vote. That way they would not be able to pretend they had nothing to do with it.

alifaizan 11y ago

Well I guess we will see a huge spike in the VPN usage like we did in Australia. http://www.bestvpnprovider.com/australia-vpn/ http://www.bestvpnprovider.com/australia-vpn/

Messiah_ 11y ago

Does anyone know what kind of metadata they will be logging? Are they logging every HTTP request that comes out of my computer for instance? (Including my user agent, the specific page I visited etc.)

chinathrow 11y ago
If the law is so permissive as described, I bet someone will go for the full take.
- Messiah_ 11y ago
  What do you mean by full take precisely?
  - M2Ys4U 11y ago
    Everything.
  - chinathrow 11y ago
    As said, everything. Take everything, analyse later, break crypto even later. If encrypted or not, doesn't matter to these folks. Their buddies at GCHQ do the same, remember?
jackjeff 11y ago
In general, this kind of details would not be part of the "law" but would be published in a "decree" cooked up by the executive branch when they decide to "apply" the law. In this case, it's going to be kept secret and covered by some kind of "security clearance". That would make it a criminal offense to divulge these details. The law explicitly limit this to the "meta data" of the communication, and not the content. And finally, publishing these details would defeat the whole purpose of the enterprise. The NSA does not publish details about the meta-data they collect in the PRISM database, and they charged the Snowden for the little that he revealed about the program. The French are essentially doing the same thing. The NSA has some limitations about when US citizens meta data can be collected domestically. The French law has no such provision.

Smrchy 11y ago

Richard Stallman wrote https://stallman.org/millions.html https://stallman.org/millions.html a few days after the 9/11 attacks. Sadly still so true. The attacks from January 2015 have led to this horrible secondary damage.

tempodox 11y ago

So, will the National Surveillance Agency file a patent suit or copyright infringement? After all, the French clearly stole the U.S.'s recipe of destroying civil rights & democracy.

c2prods 11y ago

THIRTY FUCKING ASSHOLES. There are 577 deputies in France and only 30 of them are present to vote Big Brother. Fortunately, there are several steps to go: it has to be approved by the Senate and then the Conseil Constitutionnel (in charge of the Constitution) might still reject it. Nevertheless, this proves how much our political leaders DO NOT understand the Internet.

Ragnarork 11y ago
Actually, five voted against, so you may want to revise that number of assholes :)

fiatjaf 11y ago

At least there the Congress approved the changes, while in the US everything is hidden from the citizens. Which means that the french people are socialists in their hearts.

rihegher 11y ago

the law draft in english http://wiki.laquadrature.net/Patching_the_French_Intelligence_Bill http://wiki.laquadrature.net/Patching_the_French_Intelligenc...

anoplus 11y ago

Is there anyone here believes we need open government and liquid democracy?

elros 11y ago

Oh, la merde =/

mercurial 11y ago
"Oh, merde"
- fermigier 11y ago
  "Et merde!"
  - elros 11y ago
    Non, non, c'est bien "la merde" que je voulais dire... :-)

realusername 11y ago

(French here). This was quite expected, the government slowly adopted more and more laws to restrict freedom and to watch everyone during the past ten years, this is not the first nor the last law, this is just another step for the next law which will be even worse. The government is even censoring comments on social media about the law when it's not going in their direction (I'm not even joking). The French democracy has been completely broken for a long time and a few relics from the past are still working now. The times when the country was called "the land of the human rights" are long gone. I see a few people trying to contact their representative but it's already too late, the democracy is gone, forget about it, it will just slow things down a bit but that's all, the politicians in power are too corrupted and the system too broken for that to work. The best solution now for us now is the technical one, to prevent them to do it. But even that solution is temporary, one day or an other, when they will start to attack random citizens, things will have to change... as the quote is saying, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.".

throwafrenchman 11y ago
> The government is even censoring comments on social media about the law when it's not going in their direction Do you have a source for that? I'm genuinely curious.
- pikzen 11y ago
  OP is going a bit far, but I believe he's referring to http://www.numerama.com/magazine/32780-loi-renseignement-quand-le-ministere-de-justice-trahit-la-pensee-de-taubira.html http://www.numerama.com/magazine/32780-loi-renseignement-qua... Basically, our Defense Minister's twitter account posted a quote of Christiane Taubira (the Defense Minister) saying "It is obvious that the methods of retrieval [of data] are potentially endangering private life". It was quickly removed.
- yann63 11y ago
  Here it is (in French, but with screen captures): http://www.numerama.com/magazine/32802-loi-renseignement-le-gouvernement-censure-les-critiques-de-sa-propagande.html http://www.numerama.com/magazine/32802-loi-renseignement-le-...

UserRights 11y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillotine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillotine

MrBra 11y ago

No one of you Frenchs using HN has traslated the article to English yet? This does not help!

maccard 11y ago
Really? You couldn't be bothered to put the article into google translate? https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lemonde.fr%2Fpixels%2Farticle%2F2015%2F04%2F16%2Fles-deputes-approuvent-un-systeme-de-surveillance-du-trafic-sur-internet_4616652_4408996.html&edit-text=&act=url https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&... (Sorry for long link)
- MrBra 11y ago
  I could be bothered, but I was talking about a human made, good and clear translation. Had it happened in my country first thing I would have done is translate it to English and probably involve someone else to do that for other languages too, so to spread the news as much as possible. Moreover, that would also have a strong symbolical value. I find it a bit weird you're being more like "don't be lazy, couldn't you find a bad level translation yourself and be happy with it?". No. I'm not happy because you're not giving it the appropriate coverage this way. But oh well.

kaiz0ku 11y ago

Here is the amendment if anyone is interested: http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/amendements/2697/AN/437.asp http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/amendements/2697/AN/437...

maze-le 11y ago

Good Luck catching Terrorists, who are, no doubt, using VPN, Tor and Face-to-Face communication.

fabulist 11y ago
If they're all conveniently using the same tools, their system will work.

willieaames 11y ago

Organizations including the French Human Rights Watch, ISPs, privacy advocates and political figures have criticized the Data Retention policy before it has even been brought forward to the national assembley. The “projet de loirelatif au renseignement” or the draft law on intelligence has been scheduled for consideration on the 13th of April 2015, in addition to a one step process that will exclude revisiting the Data Retention policy for a second time. I`m going to put on internet privacy shield such as vpn: http://www.bestvpnservice.com/best-france-vpn.html http://www.bestvpnservice.com/best-france-vpn.html

bwb 11y ago

A sad day for privacy once again, governments need to fuck off and stop spying and realize some bad things are going to happen, but not at the cost of sacrificing our personal privacy.

tracyleon 11y ago

Get VPN and secure online traffic monitoring by anonymous this tools are perfect for online privacy and security: http://www.bestvpnservice.com/blog/personal-vpn-service/ http://www.bestvpnservice.com/blog/personal-vpn-service/

louisrochal 11y ago
The algorithm considers someone using Tor or VPNs as "suspect"

tracyleon 11y ago

luxpir 11y ago

Some key points from the article, translated... --- It was in a nearly empty senate that around thirty deupties cast their votes [...] on the installation of "black boxes", a controversial device designed to monitor internet traffic. [It was] approved by 25 deupties to 5 following heated debates. The plan: to force ISPs to "detect, through automated processing, a suspect succession of connection data" that appear to match patterns typically used by terrorists. In practice, this would involve installing a "black box" at ISPs to monitor traffic. The content of the communications would not be monitored, but only the metadata: the sender or receiver of a message, the IP address of a visited site... [...] "The black box is the Pandora's box of this draft law," said socialist Aurélie Filippetti in the senate. "They say that the masses of data that will flow through it will only contain metadata. But they contain even more information about the private lives of our fellow citizens! [...] And there is a paradox in saying that these data will be anonymous when they are to be used to identify terrorists". An accusation that was then defended by the government in the house, "The automated processing marks out suspect behaviour, not pre-identified persons," emphasized the Defence Minister, Jean-Yves Le Drian, "It is after that the services are able to access the identity of the persons." [...] Some deputies also pointed out the "economically damaging" consequences of these black boxes, such as the ecologist Isabelle Attard, for whom "French IT companies will see their foreign clients start to desert them as they lose their trust". Last week, seven large French hosts made their opposition to the draft clear, stating that it would push them "into exile" so as not to lose their clients. [...] The government nevertheless eluded the more technical questions throughout the debate, asked, several times, by a few deputies, among those was Laure de la Raudière (UMP), "Where are you going to install your probe on the communication networks?", "How will you optimize the algorithms?", "Will you use deep packet inspection?". Bernard Cazeneuve ended up replying to this last question, repeated several times by the deputy, "We will not use this technique at all", a technique that involves the deep inspection [translation of a translation...] of all passing communications data. Several deputies have also demanded a precise list of the type of metadata collected by the black boxes to be clearly defined. In vain. ---

fweespeech 11y ago

As sad as it is, how many countries with low cost hosting providers [e.g. OVH] don't have these sorts of laws [or might as well have them in the case of the US]? Germany/Hetzner? Literally is there no one else you can get cheap dedicated servers and avoid this kind of surveillance directly inside the DC? :/