7 ms·

The funny thing is, I bet a graph of their profits would be totally different. Companies like Yelp and Foursquare are actually in the blackmail business. They

The funny thing is, I bet a graph of their profits would be totally different. Companies like Yelp and Foursquare are actually in the blackmail business. They needed the users to achieve a massive amount of reviews. Now they just collect "protection money" from business to remove / prevent bad reviews and laugh all the way to the bank. At least, that is the only way I can see their move making any kind of sense.

matthewmacleod 12y ago
Now they just collect "protection money" from business to remove / prevent bad reviews I hope you have some kind of evidence for that, because it's a pretty serious accusation to throw around.
- acheron 12y ago
  If you're talking specifically about Foursquare, I dunno, but pretty much any news story about Yelp in the past decade covers it, e.g. http://consumerist.com/2014/04/04/yelps-controversial-business-tactics-contribute-to-2000-complaints-received-by-ftc/ http://consumerist.com/2014/04/04/yelps-controversial-busine... "The number of complaints might not come as a surprise to those who have followed the numerous lawsuits and allegations of extorting money from businesses to remove negative reviews." "For years, businesses have claimed that negative reviews pop-up on their Yelp pages after they’ve declined to purchase advertising with the company."
- slowmotiony 12y ago
  Are you serious? Every yelp-like site, including the very local ones, works like this. It's not a big secret.
- wodenokoto 12y ago
  It is also a very common accusation. It's almost a monthly recurring story that some business decline an ad sales person from yelp only to see their review plummeting.
- Ensorceled 12y ago
  How is a off the cuff remark about a company's business mode on a internet discussion forum "a pretty serious accusation"? Besides actual journalists have made this connection and published it, just google "yelp extortion"
- ch8230 12y ago
  There's a documentary being made about Yelp's strong arming: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1299637435/billion-dollar-bully https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1299637435/billion-doll... I heard a business owner complained that yelp was showing mostly bad reviews after he refused to pay. So that's only anecdotal evidence but there seems to be more of it out there.
raverbashing 12y ago
I see this myth being repeated, but it's clear it comes from people not familiar with the platform I've never seen a place with an undeserved good/bad reputation. And I've seen a lot of reviews from those sites (and went to those places) As the number of reviews increase the "I'll never go back to this place" begins to show, but they're compensated by good reviews. Now, systematic bad reviews usually mean there is an issue with the place. "Sponsoring your listing" helps if you have a small amount of reviews (something like 5 to 10 reviews)
- pappyo 12y ago
  You need to talk to small business owners in any service industry that isn't restauranting. Those owners would consider the business practices of Yelp and (I guess) Foursquare thuggish. Two years ago I sat in on a call with a Yelp rep with a former employer of mine (small business connected to the real estate industry). The Yelp rep said "Advertising through Yelp will almost instantly increase you rating." My employer asked "Does that mean you'll manually fix my score?" To which the rep responded, "Your rating will get better if you advertise with us." That was 2 years ago. I know Yelp has gotten flack since then, and maybe they cleaned up. But that stink of being a thug doesn't wash off quickly, especially in the small business community.
  - emodendroket 12y ago
    That's the thing; even if it's not true there are almost certainly sales reps going around and saying this (and if it's not true that's almost worse).
  - timr 12y ago
    See, this illustrates the fallacy of the "yelp extortion" argument: what the rep said was totally clear -- when you advertise, your rating gets better. It did not imply that your rating gets better because they'll change it. That was your leap to an unsupported conclusion. Moreover, assuming that s/he did say what you're quoting, you have to put it in context: Yelp employs hundreds (if not thousands now) of telephone sales reps. They get paid crap, work in a call center, and have zero ability to influence anyone, anywhere. Sales people, when incentivized to say things for money, tend to walk as close to the ethical line as they can without going over. I haven't looked, but there probably is data showing that advertising increases your rating. It wouldn't surprise me. Every time I've bothered to dig into these claims, it's a story like yours, where a business leapt to a conclusion because they thought they heard something that validated a rumor they read on the interwebz.

matthewmacleod 12y ago

Now they just collect "protection money" from business to remove / prevent bad reviews I hope you have some kind of evidence for that, because it's a pretty serious accusation to throw around.

acheron 12y ago
If you're talking specifically about Foursquare, I dunno, but pretty much any news story about Yelp in the past decade covers it, e.g. http://consumerist.com/2014/04/04/yelps-controversial-business-tactics-contribute-to-2000-complaints-received-by-ftc/ http://consumerist.com/2014/04/04/yelps-controversial-busine... "The number of complaints might not come as a surprise to those who have followed the numerous lawsuits and allegations of extorting money from businesses to remove negative reviews." "For years, businesses have claimed that negative reviews pop-up on their Yelp pages after they’ve declined to purchase advertising with the company."
slowmotiony 12y ago
Are you serious? Every yelp-like site, including the very local ones, works like this. It's not a big secret.
wodenokoto 12y ago
It is also a very common accusation. It's almost a monthly recurring story that some business decline an ad sales person from yelp only to see their review plummeting.
Ensorceled 12y ago
How is a off the cuff remark about a company's business mode on a internet discussion forum "a pretty serious accusation"? Besides actual journalists have made this connection and published it, just google "yelp extortion"
ch8230 12y ago
There's a documentary being made about Yelp's strong arming: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1299637435/billion-dollar-bully https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1299637435/billion-doll... I heard a business owner complained that yelp was showing mostly bad reviews after he refused to pay. So that's only anecdotal evidence but there seems to be more of it out there.

raverbashing 12y ago

I see this myth being repeated, but it's clear it comes from people not familiar with the platform I've never seen a place with an undeserved good/bad reputation. And I've seen a lot of reviews from those sites (and went to those places) As the number of reviews increase the "I'll never go back to this place" begins to show, but they're compensated by good reviews. Now, systematic bad reviews usually mean there is an issue with the place. "Sponsoring your listing" helps if you have a small amount of reviews (something like 5 to 10 reviews)

pappyo 12y ago
You need to talk to small business owners in any service industry that isn't restauranting. Those owners would consider the business practices of Yelp and (I guess) Foursquare thuggish. Two years ago I sat in on a call with a Yelp rep with a former employer of mine (small business connected to the real estate industry). The Yelp rep said "Advertising through Yelp will almost instantly increase you rating." My employer asked "Does that mean you'll manually fix my score?" To which the rep responded, "Your rating will get better if you advertise with us." That was 2 years ago. I know Yelp has gotten flack since then, and maybe they cleaned up. But that stink of being a thug doesn't wash off quickly, especially in the small business community.
- emodendroket 12y ago
  That's the thing; even if it's not true there are almost certainly sales reps going around and saying this (and if it's not true that's almost worse).
- timr 12y ago
  See, this illustrates the fallacy of the "yelp extortion" argument: what the rep said was totally clear -- when you advertise, your rating gets better. It did not imply that your rating gets better because they'll change it. That was your leap to an unsupported conclusion. Moreover, assuming that s/he did say what you're quoting, you have to put it in context: Yelp employs hundreds (if not thousands now) of telephone sales reps. They get paid crap, work in a call center, and have zero ability to influence anyone, anywhere. Sales people, when incentivized to say things for money, tend to walk as close to the ethical line as they can without going over. I haven't looked, but there probably is data showing that advertising increases your rating. It wouldn't surprise me. Every time I've bothered to dig into these claims, it's a story like yours, where a business leapt to a conclusion because they thought they heard something that validated a rumor they read on the interwebz.