4 ms·

Ask HN: Young devs vs. Older devs salaries

25 points by Nemant 12y ago

I'm 24 living in NYC working for a big tech company making ~$120k/year, combining bonuses, stocks and salary. My question, if I'm making this at age 24, how much are older devs in their 30s/40s making? We recently hired somebody who's around 40 and is only a level higher than me. The same level that other devs in the company get to by the age of 26-27, making around 10%-15% more than me. My intuition tells me that my overall compensation won't increase that much even by the time I reach to Principal Engineer. I feel as if no matter how much more experience you have, your overall compensation is quite similar to that of a graduate, or at least is not significantly higher. Any thoughts?

a3voices 12y ago
I think the best you can possibly do is 2x your current compensation as an engineer given ideal circumstances. The older engineers who make a ton are probably really good at job hopping and/or negotiating, in addition to working hard consistently and being smart. I also suspect they orchestrate situations where they work for managers who they have a good relationship with, so the chances they get promoted are greater. I think another key factor is they become a scarce resource to the company, i.e. the only person who really knows the entire stack, which gives them leverage. Another possible factor is day-to-day they prioritize visible work for which they'd get future recognition. One highly paid engineer I knew also seemed good at building relationships with everyone. The only way to truly beat the system financially is to get early equity in a startup that becomes very successful.
- bbcbasic 12y ago
  > The only way to truly beat the system financially is to get early equity in a startup that becomes very successful. Or ignore compensation as a route to wealth. Invest in real estate on the side. The job provides security. The investments create wealth in the more distant future.
- umbs 12y ago
  I am 35 yrs and have been working for 10yrs now. I make less than OP (various reasons). However, I have seen lots of engineers (young and old) make > $150K. In my industry (Networking) and in that group (S/W Engineers) $150K+ means being in top 10% earning bracket. You have accurately captured everything that makes these folks reach that bracket. Two things I want to rehash: (a) Working hard consistently and being smart: Consistency is the key and I cannot emphasize how essential it is. Please note that consistency != long hours and weekends. >> I also suspect they orchestrate situations where they work for managers who they have a good relationship with, so the chances they get promoted are greater. (b) Sometimes, its the other way round. Some managers attract, even 'poach', good engineers who worked with/for them in past. Thus, creating a familiar environment/culture in the team.
tomglindmeier 12y ago
$120k/year at the age of 24 is already pretty high. I wouldn't expect a crazy %-increase at that level.
- xur17 12y ago
  But the 120k/year he quoted includes bonuses, stock, and salary. Especially in NY, that isn't all that ridiculous. My annual combined salary in Austin, TX is very close to that at a similar age.
  - Nemant 12y ago
    That's pretty good for Texas, right? I've heard it's really really cheap down there. Hence, relatively speaking you're making more than me. Who do you work for? Do you think it's possible to get a similar salary in Dallas too? Any companies down there?
briHass 12y ago
It's going to be highly location/talent dependent, but from a quick glance at salary sites, NY,NY seems to pay about 20% more than the area I'm used to. Thus, I could see a reasonable salary of $150k at the Senior (10-12 year level.) Obviously, there are specialties where you could do much better. That's a high salary at 24, so you will either grow significantly, or you'll see that level out quickly.
kasey_junk 12y ago
As an employee your intuition is largely correct. You can expect to max out at about 2x of that (inflation adjusted). The way to make dramatically more than that is to be compensated as part of the revenue stream of a business in some way, and then to increase the amount of revenue that is funneled into that business. Owning your own business is the simplest example of this but other options are available. Startups model this via equity, finance typically does this via bonus payouts, and consulting does this via bill rate. Usually this comes with an increased level of risk or less guaranteed income. It would not be surprising to move from one mode of compensation to another many times in your career.
youngoverpaid 12y ago
Throwaway account for the purposes of workplace anonymity. I just wanted to add an anecdotal data point. I am also a mid-20s year old living in NYC working in tech, although not for a large company. My cash compensation is currently around $200k/year, salary + bonus. I also have some options which may or may not ever be worth anything. I would parrot what a3voices said, and say that I probably got to where I am by having a slightly-more scarce specialty in tech, and also by being one of the people with a full grasp of the company stack.
davismwfl 12y ago
You are probably within a 1.5-2x of your total annual comp based upon current trends. I am in my late 30's and most friends that stayed in dev roles are making mostly in the < $200k range regardless of location. The way to increase it is to work on exiting a development role and moving into other roles or work on becoming a founder. Sadly, engineering is still not as respected in a financial sense, I think partially because US based companies feel they can off shore work for fractions of a dollar, thus keeping engineer salaries artificially capped. In your early-mid 20's you are doing well and should be proud. In my 20's I did very similar but found that I hit a ceiling that just couldn't be breached until I left pure development roles. Not saying you can't do better, just that it has been a trend in software for a long time.
BayAreaSmayArea 12y ago
Pretty much echo what everyone has said, as an individual contributor if you double up you're doing good.
gorduj 12y ago
http://www.redbubble.com/people/rustycsz/works/14566020-divergente-2-l-insurrection-regarder-film-online?ref=recent-owner http://www.redbubble.com/people/rustycsz/works/14566020-dive...
jamesdharper3 12y ago
I would have to agree with you. The most career/salary growth that professionals see is between 25-34 years of age. Being 24 years old and make 120K a year, I'd say you're off to a great start.

25 points by Nemant 12y ago

a3voices 12y ago

I think the best you can possibly do is 2x your current compensation as an engineer given ideal circumstances. The older engineers who make a ton are probably really good at job hopping and/or negotiating, in addition to working hard consistently and being smart. I also suspect they orchestrate situations where they work for managers who they have a good relationship with, so the chances they get promoted are greater. I think another key factor is they become a scarce resource to the company, i.e. the only person who really knows the entire stack, which gives them leverage. Another possible factor is day-to-day they prioritize visible work for which they'd get future recognition. One highly paid engineer I knew also seemed good at building relationships with everyone. The only way to truly beat the system financially is to get early equity in a startup that becomes very successful.

bbcbasic 12y ago
> The only way to truly beat the system financially is to get early equity in a startup that becomes very successful. Or ignore compensation as a route to wealth. Invest in real estate on the side. The job provides security. The investments create wealth in the more distant future.
umbs 12y ago
I am 35 yrs and have been working for 10yrs now. I make less than OP (various reasons). However, I have seen lots of engineers (young and old) make > $150K. In my industry (Networking) and in that group (S/W Engineers) $150K+ means being in top 10% earning bracket. You have accurately captured everything that makes these folks reach that bracket. Two things I want to rehash: (a) Working hard consistently and being smart: Consistency is the key and I cannot emphasize how essential it is. Please note that consistency != long hours and weekends. >> I also suspect they orchestrate situations where they work for managers who they have a good relationship with, so the chances they get promoted are greater. (b) Sometimes, its the other way round. Some managers attract, even 'poach', good engineers who worked with/for them in past. Thus, creating a familiar environment/culture in the team.

tomglindmeier 12y ago

$120k/year at the age of 24 is already pretty high. I wouldn't expect a crazy %-increase at that level.

xur17 12y ago
But the 120k/year he quoted includes bonuses, stock, and salary. Especially in NY, that isn't all that ridiculous. My annual combined salary in Austin, TX is very close to that at a similar age.
- Nemant 12y ago
  That's pretty good for Texas, right? I've heard it's really really cheap down there. Hence, relatively speaking you're making more than me. Who do you work for? Do you think it's possible to get a similar salary in Dallas too? Any companies down there?

briHass 12y ago

It's going to be highly location/talent dependent, but from a quick glance at salary sites, NY,NY seems to pay about 20% more than the area I'm used to. Thus, I could see a reasonable salary of $150k at the Senior (10-12 year level.) Obviously, there are specialties where you could do much better. That's a high salary at 24, so you will either grow significantly, or you'll see that level out quickly.

kasey_junk 12y ago

As an employee your intuition is largely correct. You can expect to max out at about 2x of that (inflation adjusted). The way to make dramatically more than that is to be compensated as part of the revenue stream of a business in some way, and then to increase the amount of revenue that is funneled into that business. Owning your own business is the simplest example of this but other options are available. Startups model this via equity, finance typically does this via bonus payouts, and consulting does this via bill rate. Usually this comes with an increased level of risk or less guaranteed income. It would not be surprising to move from one mode of compensation to another many times in your career.

youngoverpaid 12y ago

Throwaway account for the purposes of workplace anonymity. I just wanted to add an anecdotal data point. I am also a mid-20s year old living in NYC working in tech, although not for a large company. My cash compensation is currently around $200k/year, salary + bonus. I also have some options which may or may not ever be worth anything. I would parrot what a3voices said, and say that I probably got to where I am by having a slightly-more scarce specialty in tech, and also by being one of the people with a full grasp of the company stack.

davismwfl 12y ago

You are probably within a 1.5-2x of your total annual comp based upon current trends. I am in my late 30's and most friends that stayed in dev roles are making mostly in the < $200k range regardless of location. The way to increase it is to work on exiting a development role and moving into other roles or work on becoming a founder. Sadly, engineering is still not as respected in a financial sense, I think partially because US based companies feel they can off shore work for fractions of a dollar, thus keeping engineer salaries artificially capped. In your early-mid 20's you are doing well and should be proud. In my 20's I did very similar but found that I hit a ceiling that just couldn't be breached until I left pure development roles. Not saying you can't do better, just that it has been a trend in software for a long time.

BayAreaSmayArea 12y ago

Pretty much echo what everyone has said, as an individual contributor if you double up you're doing good.

gorduj 12y ago

http://www.redbubble.com/people/rustycsz/works/14566020-divergente-2-l-insurrection-regarder-film-online?ref=recent-owner http://www.redbubble.com/people/rustycsz/works/14566020-dive...

jamesdharper3 12y ago

I would have to agree with you. The most career/salary growth that professionals see is between 25-34 years of age. Being 24 years old and make 120K a year, I'd say you're off to a great start.