12 ms·

Varoufakis and Stiglitz [video]

121 points by MaysonL 12y ago

dang 12y ago
URL changed from http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2015/04/inet-video-varoufakis-and-stiglitz-.html http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2015/04/ine..., which points to this.
pinzlert 12y ago
Greece currently has big problems. But I think their new government is doing a great job to improve their situation. As you can see in the video Varoufakis is a brilliant guy.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  He's brilliant but playing very high stakes in a confrontational manner that could very easily backfire.
  - euccastro 12y ago
    Could you elaborate on Varoufakis' confrontational manners? I think you may be misattributing to Varoufakis some moves by other actors in the Greek government. As for high stakes... well, the stakes for someone coming into the finance ministry of Greece in this Europe are huge no matter how you look at it.
  - peterfirefly 12y ago
    Could you elaborate on his brilliance?
- macmac 12y ago
  By great job are you referring to the flirting with Putin's Russia, the pathetic attempts to collect war debt from Germany or something else entirely?
  - pinzlert 12y ago
    Obviously Greece is not making new friends at the moment, but given the situation they are currently in, yes I think this action will help them.
    - macmac 12y ago
      In what way exactly would it help to alienate the only parties that can provide sustainable assistance to Greece now and and in the foreseeable future?
      - bildung 12y ago
        Greece is one of the Euro zone countries that economically suffers the most from the EU sanctions against Russia. Their "flirting" with Russia, as you said, is merely trying to find a way to continue to sell greek agricultural produce to Russia. Given the economical state of Greece I think that's a pretty sensible approach.
        peterfirefly 12y ago
        How much of Greece's foreign trade is with Russia? Isn't about 1%? Do they not trade more with Turkey (and Germany) and about a handful of other countries?
        bildung 12y ago
        @peterfirefly (sorry, I can't reply directly to you because of the negative karma of my original post) Yes, the EU are of bigger importance, but OTOH those trade partners are still there. Only the exports to Russia are lost. If the trade amount relative to GDP really is 1%, that would amount to more than 2 billion Euros in lost trade. Greece is small and in a precarious financial situation, I can understand why they risk to affront other EU members for those 2 billion.
        peterfirefly 12y ago
        The Greek loss due to the Russian undeclared war against Ukraine is tiny, even if it meant that all the trade with Russia disappeared (which it doesn't). Compare with Finland and Sweden when the Soviet Union fell. They were hit a lot harder but they cleaned up and enacted reforms. They certainly didn't complain that Greece was unreasonable for not lending (or giving) them money so that things could continue as before.
- bring1 12y ago
  lol they are a bunch of Communist in the same shape and color as they came in the last century. As soon as they are done spending others people money (EU loans, etc.) they will go bankrupt once again. The greece people voted for them because they are desperate and think that a radical change would do anything good. Those voters are also fking clueless, and will cry in a few months once greece is finally broke. They attempt to collect WWII reparations is like a plot for a satirical movie.
- reqres 12y ago
  >> But I think their new government is doing a great job to improve their situation. Syriza was voted in to end austerity at minimum. They are nowhere near achieving this promise. Furthermore, their brinkmanship within the EU has made this even more unlikely. All that has changed since winning the election is a steep degradation for the prospects of the Greek economy on almost every metric. The economic recovery early this year was snuffed out. Tax revenues have declined. Cost of sovereign borrowing is up. Bank deposits are flowing out. I feel sorry for Varoufakis. He seems like a very sensible economist. Unfortunately the extreme elements of Syriza are driving Greece out of the eurozone and into much bigger trouble.
- derriz 12y ago
  Really? The economy has plunged further into decline after showing some signs of recovery in the second half of 2014. Tax avoidance (cheating) has soared given Syriza's populist promises to roll back measures designed to improve tax collection (and the Greeks are the worst tax cheats in the EU). They have both told their EU creditors f*ck you - you'll never get back the money you just lent us - while simultaneously demanding EU countries lend them more money. Unsurprisingly this pissed off their only friends/supporters in the world. Within the EU, support/goodwill for Greece has collapsed since Syriza took charge. Other EU countries have taken on huge debts to support Greece only to be berated by Syriza; Spain for example has given Greece 27 billion euro (equal to an entire year of government social spending) while Spain itself suffers 25% unemployment and a collapsed economy. Syriza has/is rolling back many reforms (like paying civil servants 13 months pay every year) while other EU country are continuing to cut back (e.g. on retirement ages). Many EU countries (e.g. the Baltic states) have lower average salaries and work longer before retiring than the Greeks and yet have paid into the rescue fund for Greece. After all this Syriza still blames the EU for their troubles? Or threatens to unleash Jihadists on Berlin? The trouble with Greece is that the government hasn't balanced its books in 35 years and the economy produces little of value (olive growing and cheap tourist sector jobs) while expecting to live a live-style like the average German, British or even French or Italian who produce high value-add goods which are exported to the world. They continue to demand that the government spend more while avoiding taxes. Syriza feeds this national self-pity by looking for outsiders (particularly the Germans) to blame for this. At some stage reality has to be faced.
  - unsigner 12y ago
    14, not 13 salaries a year. There are the normal monthly salaries, then there are an "Easter" and a "Christmas" salary. I learned of this via something almost out of a ancient Greek comedy, the lines of the Goddess of irony: A Greek manager sent to manage an branch created here in Bulgaria to take advantage our cheaper labor was outraged when she found out we only get 12 salaries a year. How is she expected to live on only 12 salaries, she asked incredulously, what about the extra spending around vacations??
    - 12y ago
atmosx 12y ago
Here are the thoughts of Steve Keen (an economist) about Varoufakis[1] on BBC and this how the BBC, the economist and largely every other mainstream media outlet describes Varoufakis[2]. I saw since day-1 Varoufakis described as "self-acclaimed marxist left wing/radical finance minister". A description which in the western has more than a touch of negativity. On the other side you see e.g. Jeroen Dijsselbloem[3] being presented as "President of the Eurogroup" and/or "President of the ESM", while he could be easily be described in the same vein as a "Right-right wing, non-economist with a false degree[4]". Unfortunately that's the level of journalism we are up against. Greece apart, if one takes the time to listen Varoufakis talking, then he understands that he is an exceptionally knowledgeable man. He has a deep knowledge of his domain and he speaks his mind - which is rare for a politician and got him in to troubles with the media more than once - all to often and in a very loud and clear manner. I'm not sure if can pull out anything positive for Greece, because other than bailing Greece out, there is no way (for the Greeks at least) out of this spiral: Following the EUs terms is equally if not (much?) more catastrophic than leaving the common currency (even without leaving the EuroZone for military/geopolitical reasons). [1] http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2015/02/05/talking-about-yanis-on-the-bbc/ http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2015/02/05/talking-about-... [2] http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/02/bill-black-bbc-dismisses-real-greek-economist-sexy-ideologue.html http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/02/bill-black-bbc-dismis... [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeroen_Dijsselbloem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeroen_Dijsselbloem [4] http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dutch-finance-minister-amends-cork-university-degree-error-29195279.html http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dutch-finance-minister-...
- lifeisstillgood 12y ago
  Have you read Pettis on the subject? Similar views on prospects - there has to be a bailout, but his view is that there is a bailout - somehow or other someone will pay the debt, European taxpayers probably, but we can have a managed fair debt reallocation or we can have a disastrous collapse. My fear is unelected officials trying to smack down democratically elected wishes will lead to a collapse not just in Greece but elsewhere.
  - danmaz74 12y ago
peterfirefly 12y ago
It starts with a 5m long and irrelevant introduction.
- Luc 12y ago
  The rest of the content is really good though. Skip the intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=OY3Qxm6BoUI#t=313 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=OY...
Luc 12y ago
I think there's a lot of misinformation around the Greek crisis. Whenever any of the actors involved speak to the press, you can be sure they have an agenda: to influence public opinion (their own or of other parties), or to seem more extreme than they actually are at the negotiating table so as to make a solution politically possible, etc. When reporting on this the press then layers on a nice thick coating of opinion, often basing themselves on other press articles which suffer from the same problem. No wonder comments on the internet are often of the 'You're an idiot! No you are!' variety. People are trying to reason based on second degree derivatives of the actual situation.
- euccastro 12y ago
  I don't suppose you mean that discussion is futile because our sources are tainted? In this case Varoufakis is saying pretty much the same he used to years before he had any political responsibility.
  - Luc 12y ago
    I think it's better to hear it straight from Varoufakis than to read the newspapers, and what he says seems less 'political' than from the usual career politicians.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
taliesinb 12y ago
Other Varoufakis videos that are worth watching if you want to know more about him and his views: * "The Global Minotaur: America, Europe and the Future of the Global Economy " -- about his book, a nice narrative of the last 100 years of the political economy -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEUWxNifJJ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEUWxNifJJ8 * Richard D. Wolf's Global Capitalism update featuring Varoufakis -- Richard D. Wolf is always fun to watch, he looks like a Marxist version of Homeland's Saul Berenson -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc-iYzniEXM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc-iYzniEXM * "Confessions of an Errant Marxist" -- sort of Varoufakis's origin story -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3uNIgDmqwI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3uNIgDmqwI * Bizarre BBC Newsnight interview with Varoufakis -- where you can see the BBC's idealogical function leaking through -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVpWOk7vu18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVpWOk7vu18 It's evident from watching these that he is almost without exception the smartest person in every room he's in. And unlike most other economists, he is actually, you know, alive. Also, the obligatory Pettis articles that should be read by everyone who wishes to form an opinion about Greece's current position: * http://blog.mpettis.com/2015/02/syriza-and-the-french-indemnity-of-1871-73/ http://blog.mpettis.com/2015/02/syriza-and-the-french-indemn... * http://blog.mpettis.com/2015/02/when-do-we-decide-that-europe-must-restructure-much-of-its-debt/ http://blog.mpettis.com/2015/02/when-do-we-decide-that-europ... And to encourage some cynanism about the neoliberal wisdoms, here's a contrarian economist called Ha-Joon Chang: * "23 Things they don't tell you about about Capitalism" -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whVf5tuVbus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whVf5tuVbus And then of course at the end of the rainbow there is David Harvey: * "The 17 Contradictions of Capitalism", LSE -- https://youtu.be/AULJlwoI3TI https://youtu.be/AULJlwoI3TI We also recently had a spirited HN thread about Greece that had some good stuff in it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9314000 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9314000
- mackwic 12y ago
  I know it's not the HN guideline to thanks, but crap. Thank you for your exceptionally well sourced comment. I wish I had something like pocket for the youtube videos so that I could watch them during transit.
  - 12y ago
roymurdock 12y ago
"There is no doubt that if we had a Federal Republic - if we had a United States of Europe - we would not be here, discussing the Greek crisis, the Eurozone crisis, banking unions, or anything of the sort. I think most Europeans would agree with this, and most Europeans would want to live in a United States of Europe." - Varoufakis I enjoyed Varoufakis' comments on the "United States of Europe" and the idea that a European Federal Government might have prevented or at least lessened the adverse impacts of the financial crisis. From my limited understanding of the EU, it does seem that the ECB was not created with enough potency to act outside the interests of the largest (financially-speaking) members of the EU. Thus the German and French agendas and economies were furthered at the expense of the Greek, Spanish, and Italian economies. My counter to this argument, looking at the US, is that our government and the Federal Reserve have become increasingly controlled by the interests of corporations and the owners of capital (banks). It is the government's job to provide a counterbalance against the profit-seeking interests of corporations by (1) creating and enacting regulations to protect constituents who might be harmed otherwise and (2) investing in infrastructure, R&D, and education - sectors that require large investments and that have no short-term, easily-observable returns, but that are absolutely vital to the long-term success of a country. The US government simply fell down on the job, repealing the Glass-Steagall act and allowing banks and consumers to take on unmanageable levels of risky debt. What is to say that a "United States of Europe" would not have fallen victim to the exact same systematic breakdown in accountability and ethics that we have seen in the US? Sure, a "United States of Europe" might have more power in setting monetary and fiscal policy throughout the EU, but fundamentally it comes down to the ability to weigh long-term prosperity next to short-term growth, and to combat the temptations of excess greed and corruption. If the captains of finance and business, and the leaders of a country cannot perform these tasks that are fundamental to the functioning of a healthy economy and society, then no amount of tinkering with the structure of the government and other regulatory institutions can help.

121 points by MaysonL 12y ago

dang 12y ago

URL changed from http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2015/04/inet-video-varoufakis-and-stiglitz-.html http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2015/04/ine..., which points to this.

pinzlert 12y ago

Greece currently has big problems. But I think their new government is doing a great job to improve their situation. As you can see in the video Varoufakis is a brilliant guy.

jacquesm 12y ago
He's brilliant but playing very high stakes in a confrontational manner that could very easily backfire.
- euccastro 12y ago
  Could you elaborate on Varoufakis' confrontational manners? I think you may be misattributing to Varoufakis some moves by other actors in the Greek government. As for high stakes... well, the stakes for someone coming into the finance ministry of Greece in this Europe are huge no matter how you look at it.
- peterfirefly 12y ago
  Could you elaborate on his brilliance?
macmac 12y ago
By great job are you referring to the flirting with Putin's Russia, the pathetic attempts to collect war debt from Germany or something else entirely?
- pinzlert 12y ago
  Obviously Greece is not making new friends at the moment, but given the situation they are currently in, yes I think this action will help them.
  - macmac 12y ago
    In what way exactly would it help to alienate the only parties that can provide sustainable assistance to Greece now and and in the foreseeable future?
    - bildung 12y ago
      Greece is one of the Euro zone countries that economically suffers the most from the EU sanctions against Russia. Their "flirting" with Russia, as you said, is merely trying to find a way to continue to sell greek agricultural produce to Russia. Given the economical state of Greece I think that's a pretty sensible approach.
      - peterfirefly 12y ago
        How much of Greece's foreign trade is with Russia? Isn't about 1%? Do they not trade more with Turkey (and Germany) and about a handful of other countries?
      - bildung 12y ago
        @peterfirefly (sorry, I can't reply directly to you because of the negative karma of my original post) Yes, the EU are of bigger importance, but OTOH those trade partners are still there. Only the exports to Russia are lost. If the trade amount relative to GDP really is 1%, that would amount to more than 2 billion Euros in lost trade. Greece is small and in a precarious financial situation, I can understand why they risk to affront other EU members for those 2 billion.
        peterfirefly 12y ago
        The Greek loss due to the Russian undeclared war against Ukraine is tiny, even if it meant that all the trade with Russia disappeared (which it doesn't). Compare with Finland and Sweden when the Soviet Union fell. They were hit a lot harder but they cleaned up and enacted reforms. They certainly didn't complain that Greece was unreasonable for not lending (or giving) them money so that things could continue as before.
bring1 12y ago
lol they are a bunch of Communist in the same shape and color as they came in the last century. As soon as they are done spending others people money (EU loans, etc.) they will go bankrupt once again. The greece people voted for them because they are desperate and think that a radical change would do anything good. Those voters are also fking clueless, and will cry in a few months once greece is finally broke. They attempt to collect WWII reparations is like a plot for a satirical movie.
reqres 12y ago
>> But I think their new government is doing a great job to improve their situation. Syriza was voted in to end austerity at minimum. They are nowhere near achieving this promise. Furthermore, their brinkmanship within the EU has made this even more unlikely. All that has changed since winning the election is a steep degradation for the prospects of the Greek economy on almost every metric. The economic recovery early this year was snuffed out. Tax revenues have declined. Cost of sovereign borrowing is up. Bank deposits are flowing out. I feel sorry for Varoufakis. He seems like a very sensible economist. Unfortunately the extreme elements of Syriza are driving Greece out of the eurozone and into much bigger trouble.
derriz 12y ago
Really? The economy has plunged further into decline after showing some signs of recovery in the second half of 2014. Tax avoidance (cheating) has soared given Syriza's populist promises to roll back measures designed to improve tax collection (and the Greeks are the worst tax cheats in the EU). They have both told their EU creditors f*ck you - you'll never get back the money you just lent us - while simultaneously demanding EU countries lend them more money. Unsurprisingly this pissed off their only friends/supporters in the world. Within the EU, support/goodwill for Greece has collapsed since Syriza took charge. Other EU countries have taken on huge debts to support Greece only to be berated by Syriza; Spain for example has given Greece 27 billion euro (equal to an entire year of government social spending) while Spain itself suffers 25% unemployment and a collapsed economy. Syriza has/is rolling back many reforms (like paying civil servants 13 months pay every year) while other EU country are continuing to cut back (e.g. on retirement ages). Many EU countries (e.g. the Baltic states) have lower average salaries and work longer before retiring than the Greeks and yet have paid into the rescue fund for Greece. After all this Syriza still blames the EU for their troubles? Or threatens to unleash Jihadists on Berlin? The trouble with Greece is that the government hasn't balanced its books in 35 years and the economy produces little of value (olive growing and cheap tourist sector jobs) while expecting to live a live-style like the average German, British or even French or Italian who produce high value-add goods which are exported to the world. They continue to demand that the government spend more while avoiding taxes. Syriza feeds this national self-pity by looking for outsiders (particularly the Germans) to blame for this. At some stage reality has to be faced.
- unsigner 12y ago
  14, not 13 salaries a year. There are the normal monthly salaries, then there are an "Easter" and a "Christmas" salary. I learned of this via something almost out of a ancient Greek comedy, the lines of the Goddess of irony: A Greek manager sent to manage an branch created here in Bulgaria to take advantage our cheaper labor was outraged when she found out we only get 12 salaries a year. How is she expected to live on only 12 salaries, she asked incredulously, what about the extra spending around vacations??
  - 12y ago

atmosx 12y ago

Here are the thoughts of Steve Keen (an economist) about Varoufakis[1] on BBC and this how the BBC, the economist and largely every other mainstream media outlet describes Varoufakis[2]. I saw since day-1 Varoufakis described as "self-acclaimed marxist left wing/radical finance minister". A description which in the western has more than a touch of negativity. On the other side you see e.g. Jeroen Dijsselbloem[3] being presented as "President of the Eurogroup" and/or "President of the ESM", while he could be easily be described in the same vein as a "Right-right wing, non-economist with a false degree[4]". Unfortunately that's the level of journalism we are up against. Greece apart, if one takes the time to listen Varoufakis talking, then he understands that he is an exceptionally knowledgeable man. He has a deep knowledge of his domain and he speaks his mind - which is rare for a politician and got him in to troubles with the media more than once - all to often and in a very loud and clear manner. I'm not sure if can pull out anything positive for Greece, because other than bailing Greece out, there is no way (for the Greeks at least) out of this spiral: Following the EUs terms is equally if not (much?) more catastrophic than leaving the common currency (even without leaving the EuroZone for military/geopolitical reasons). [1] http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2015/02/05/talking-about-yanis-on-the-bbc/ http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2015/02/05/talking-about-... [2] http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/02/bill-black-bbc-dismisses-real-greek-economist-sexy-ideologue.html http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/02/bill-black-bbc-dismis... [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeroen_Dijsselbloem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeroen_Dijsselbloem [4] http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dutch-finance-minister-amends-cork-university-degree-error-29195279.html http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dutch-finance-minister-...

lifeisstillgood 12y ago
Have you read Pettis on the subject? Similar views on prospects - there has to be a bailout, but his view is that there is a bailout - somehow or other someone will pay the debt, European taxpayers probably, but we can have a managed fair debt reallocation or we can have a disastrous collapse. My fear is unelected officials trying to smack down democratically elected wishes will lead to a collapse not just in Greece but elsewhere.
- danmaz74 12y ago

peterfirefly 12y ago

It starts with a 5m long and irrelevant introduction.

Luc 12y ago
The rest of the content is really good though. Skip the intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=OY3Qxm6BoUI#t=313 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=OY...

Luc 12y ago

I think there's a lot of misinformation around the Greek crisis. Whenever any of the actors involved speak to the press, you can be sure they have an agenda: to influence public opinion (their own or of other parties), or to seem more extreme than they actually are at the negotiating table so as to make a solution politically possible, etc. When reporting on this the press then layers on a nice thick coating of opinion, often basing themselves on other press articles which suffer from the same problem. No wonder comments on the internet are often of the 'You're an idiot! No you are!' variety. People are trying to reason based on second degree derivatives of the actual situation.

euccastro 12y ago
I don't suppose you mean that discussion is futile because our sources are tainted? In this case Varoufakis is saying pretty much the same he used to years before he had any political responsibility.
- Luc 12y ago
  I think it's better to hear it straight from Varoufakis than to read the newspapers, and what he says seems less 'political' than from the usual career politicians.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

taliesinb 12y ago

Other Varoufakis videos that are worth watching if you want to know more about him and his views: * "The Global Minotaur: America, Europe and the Future of the Global Economy " -- about his book, a nice narrative of the last 100 years of the political economy -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEUWxNifJJ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEUWxNifJJ8 * Richard D. Wolf's Global Capitalism update featuring Varoufakis -- Richard D. Wolf is always fun to watch, he looks like a Marxist version of Homeland's Saul Berenson -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc-iYzniEXM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc-iYzniEXM * "Confessions of an Errant Marxist" -- sort of Varoufakis's origin story -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3uNIgDmqwI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3uNIgDmqwI * Bizarre BBC Newsnight interview with Varoufakis -- where you can see the BBC's idealogical function leaking through -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVpWOk7vu18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVpWOk7vu18 It's evident from watching these that he is almost without exception the smartest person in every room he's in. And unlike most other economists, he is actually, you know, alive. Also, the obligatory Pettis articles that should be read by everyone who wishes to form an opinion about Greece's current position: * http://blog.mpettis.com/2015/02/syriza-and-the-french-indemnity-of-1871-73/ http://blog.mpettis.com/2015/02/syriza-and-the-french-indemn... * http://blog.mpettis.com/2015/02/when-do-we-decide-that-europe-must-restructure-much-of-its-debt/ http://blog.mpettis.com/2015/02/when-do-we-decide-that-europ... And to encourage some cynanism about the neoliberal wisdoms, here's a contrarian economist called Ha-Joon Chang: * "23 Things they don't tell you about about Capitalism" -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whVf5tuVbus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whVf5tuVbus And then of course at the end of the rainbow there is David Harvey: * "The 17 Contradictions of Capitalism", LSE -- https://youtu.be/AULJlwoI3TI https://youtu.be/AULJlwoI3TI We also recently had a spirited HN thread about Greece that had some good stuff in it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9314000 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9314000

mackwic 12y ago
I know it's not the HN guideline to thanks, but crap. Thank you for your exceptionally well sourced comment. I wish I had something like pocket for the youtube videos so that I could watch them during transit.
- 12y ago

roymurdock 12y ago

"There is no doubt that if we had a Federal Republic - if we had a United States of Europe - we would not be here, discussing the Greek crisis, the Eurozone crisis, banking unions, or anything of the sort. I think most Europeans would agree with this, and most Europeans would want to live in a United States of Europe." - Varoufakis I enjoyed Varoufakis' comments on the "United States of Europe" and the idea that a European Federal Government might have prevented or at least lessened the adverse impacts of the financial crisis. From my limited understanding of the EU, it does seem that the ECB was not created with enough potency to act outside the interests of the largest (financially-speaking) members of the EU. Thus the German and French agendas and economies were furthered at the expense of the Greek, Spanish, and Italian economies. My counter to this argument, looking at the US, is that our government and the Federal Reserve have become increasingly controlled by the interests of corporations and the owners of capital (banks). It is the government's job to provide a counterbalance against the profit-seeking interests of corporations by (1) creating and enacting regulations to protect constituents who might be harmed otherwise and (2) investing in infrastructure, R&D, and education - sectors that require large investments and that have no short-term, easily-observable returns, but that are absolutely vital to the long-term success of a country. The US government simply fell down on the job, repealing the Glass-Steagall act and allowing banks and consumers to take on unmanageable levels of risky debt. What is to say that a "United States of Europe" would not have fallen victim to the exact same systematic breakdown in accountability and ethics that we have seen in the US? Sure, a "United States of Europe" might have more power in setting monetary and fiscal policy throughout the EU, but fundamentally it comes down to the ability to weigh long-term prosperity next to short-term growth, and to combat the temptations of excess greed and corruption. If the captains of finance and business, and the leaders of a country cannot perform these tasks that are fundamental to the functioning of a healthy economy and society, then no amount of tinkering with the structure of the government and other regulatory institutions can help.