9 ms·

More options: - Go solo. At 40 you should be experienced enough to handle up to mid-sized projects, alone and on a reasonable time-frame. Try to pick projects t

More options: - Go solo. At 40 you should be experienced enough to handle up to mid-sized projects, alone and on a reasonable time-frame. Try to pick projects that your clients will actually use, with new features and support contracts you will have steady income for the long-term. - Go startup. Stop thinking you need to come up with the next über-for-x. There are plenty of opportunities for small sass shops that cater locally and provide sufficient income for a micro successful business. At worst you'll be acquired. - Go sidetrack. I read someone said every business is a software business. Start a different career/business and you'll be doing the IT needs yourself. That alone is a huge competitive advantage. These options allow you to continue programming after 40 and you should! It is an urban myth that past 35 programmers are not as good b/c they get tired faster or make more mistakes? The truth is that 20-somethings can put up with very long hours b/c they have the time (mainly due to not having a wife and kids) while 40-somethings have the experience to go right to the answer. That's productive vs efficient. I like to use a soccer analogy: a young defender is good when he's fast because he can outrun the attacker, while an old and slow defender is better because he knows where to stand and wait for the attacker. Experience is gold.

comp1927 12y ago
Latex's author already prove it wrong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Knuth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Knuth
- raldi 12y ago
  Prove what wrong?
  - isomorphic 12y ago
    I think comp1927 means Knuth proves that one can get better with age. Which is a fine point, but Donald Knuth is a difficult lead to follow.
    - switch_bro 12y ago
      Keep in mind that Knuth is not a software engineer - he makes his living as a tenured professor at Stanford (these days professor emeritus).
- isomorphic 12y ago
  I grant your point, but that's a bit like saying Einstein was a good physicist.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- gamegoblin 12y ago
  Knuth did TeX. LaTeX was Leslie Lamport. LaTex is short for Lamport TeX.
  - zaroth 12y ago
    Quite the exclusive clique they've got there.
danieltillett 12y ago
The problem with age is you become less flexible. If your have a business where you know what you will be doing in 6 months time then experience is great - when your plans change weekly then the flexibility of youth is what you want.
- jmspring 12y ago
  Define "less flexible", someone doing consulting has flexibility to pick and choose clients. Someone who continually learns is capable of picking and choosing technologies. I would think even someone in their twenties would have issues with "plans changing weekly".
  - j1o1h1n 12y ago
    Less "flexible" with salary and benefits, presumably.
    - jmspring 12y ago
      I've known people with nest eggs happy to take cuts for something interesting. But I also know with experience comes a skeptical eye for being asked to carry extra load for less upside (yet same or more risk). A story from some time back told to me. Founders had a UI, an algorithm, and an idea. It had merit. They sought someone out to build and run the actual service. The funding was angel, the role was senior to C-level, but the salary offered was 40-60k cut for a senior engineer at the usual suspects, equity capped at 4% assuming a trade off in salary. Risk and reward to build out infrastructure and productize someone's idea? I could certainly get a couple of people to build it out in a "get us to a-round funding" in those guidelines, maybe even beyond. But as expectations on a non-founding senior/early member, one would assume way too much risk for the potential upside. It isn't non-technical founder seeking technical co-founder waters, but damn close.
- nemo 12y ago
  Age makes employees less flexible in some senses like not being willing to put up with some of the crap that younger people will (60 hour weeks, endless crunches, etc.) I once did, but will no longer tolerate that crap from an employer. But being older doesn't mean you stop learning, adapting to change, or lose the ability to deal with moving targets. I'm hopping rapidly between roles and widely varied tasks at my current gig better than I would have in my 20s or 30s since I've got more perspective and experience. A more mature person might point out that if your plans change weekly you likely have a systemic problem, though, and would be more likely to point out the breakage.
isomorphic 12y ago
I'm over 40 and I've always worked as a consultant. Until recently I was the sole developer on a site doing eight figures in revenue (now I'm team lead). Without being arrogant here, if my skills match but someone doesn't want my level of experience, it's not a good sign for the someone. On the flip side, I would love to throw out all of the languages and frameworks I've been using for the past few years and learn entirely new tech. That's part of the point of being in this business! If you're a startup and have a bias against us greybeards, you're only hurting yourself. We'll learn your framework-du-jour and tell you how it bears an uncanny resemblance to something that didn't work so well in the past. Or maybe we've never seen anything like it, in which case we'll be delighted to cast aside all that old crap.
- chx 12y ago
  I usually summarize this thusly: "I have already made the mistake you are about to make". It should be obvious the time savings would worth it to "rent" me. And I am months away from my 40th birthday.
  - SiVal 12y ago
    It's funny you should say that. A few years ago, at a company whose name everyone here knows I, an old gray-hair, almost lost my full-time job for warning a VP that she was about to make a mistake I'd seen before. I honestly thought she was joking when she told me about the approach she was going to use to deal with a "hard deadline" of four months. I laughed along with her joke until, with a shock, we both realized that I was actually laughing at her actual plan. She became indignant and ended our meeting (just the two of us), getting me transferred for "not being supportive of the team" and trying, unsuccessfully, to get me fired. She gave the job to her three dozen "supportive" young programmers, who ended up taking 28 months (!!) to get the "4-month" project finally working. So, after all that, did she eventually apologize and tell me that, yes, she'd made the same mistake I told her I'd seen before with the same results for the same reason, and that she should have at least asked me more about it instead of throwing me out? Of course not. This is the real world. She never spoke to me again and never forgave me.
elwell 12y ago
> At 40 you should be experienced enough to handle up to mid-sized projects, alone and on a reasonable time-frame At 25...
- fsloth 12y ago
  I presume a troll? At 25 I graduated as MSc (physics), had not worked a day in the industry, and began my PhD studies. At 26 I figured computer graphics where much more fun than running quantum physical simulations in a lonely cellar and began my software engineering career. At which point I was still pretty clueless of the complexities of software engineering in the industry. The time limit is not age but how much experience one has doing software engineering projects. One needs several unders ones belt, preferably some that have actually shipped so that one sees what the end user implications of the said products are. How long this will take? A couple of years? Hard to say.
  - Rainymood 12y ago
    >I presume a troll? At 25 I graduated as MSc (physics), had not worked a day in the industry, and began my PhD studies. At 26 I figured computer graphics where much more fun than running quantum physical simulations in a lonely cellar and began my software engineering career. At which point I was still pretty clueless of the complexities of software engineering in the industry. How did it work out for you? I am curious as I am thinking of shifting from fin. applied math (econometrics) to SE ...
    - fsloth 12y ago
      For me it worked pretty fine careerwise (I'm now 35 to be precise). I'm working now in the technology development department of a multi-discipline CAD vendor, everyone else is really talented and I mostly enjoy my tasks. I even get to write simple linear algebra like a QR decomposition now an then. The job is stable, mentally stimulating and my co-workers are sensible human beings - who are mostly way past their 30s and some over 50s. I turned to software engineering because computer graphics gave and give me such a huge kick. I don't know what intrinsically motivates you so I cannot comment whether I would suggest the career for you or not. Here's the rub: software engineering can be viewed in some circles as blue-collar work, which means the work environments can vary quite a lot. Also, the discipline is really young, and it shows in the amount of cargo cult and bullshit quotes one finds peddled as "best practices". There can be gigs where co-workers are experts and those can be great, however, there can be lot of environments where co-workers are perpetual expert beginners and those can suck big-time (or so I've heard). Realistically, software engineering is still a pretty solid career choice so from a sustenance point of view I'm sure there are far worse options one can choose.
hoboon 12y ago
> Go solo. At 40 you should be experienced enough to handle up to mid-sized projects, alone and on a reasonable time-frame. Try to pick projects that your clients will actually use, someday i might get there.
mtbcoder 12y ago
> More options: - Go solo. As someone who has been 'solo' for a very long time, I have to heavily disagree with this opinion. Going solo isn't as simple or easy as what the OP seems to be implying. Going solo means you are essentially working two jobs at once as it takes a tremendous amount of work and dedication to network, find good projects and keep them rolling in to pay your bills. To further exacerbate things, each year the amount of competition that you face ramps up drastically as more and more workers enter the consulting world who are unable to price themselves correctly and are willing to work for less and less. Furthermore, by going solo, you are now assuming 100% of the risk as to whether or not your new consulting business sinks or swims. Chances are, just like any start up, you will sink. Additionally, you will have added burdens such as insurance requirements, self-employment taxes, various state/county-level taxes (such as gross receipts taxes) and a laundry list of day-to-day operations that you will need to perform that aren't related to software development. Going solo really isn't for most people and I wish we'd all stop perpetuating this myth that it is somehow easily attainable. Remember, a solo consulting business is the easiest business you can start, maintaining one is the most difficult business you can run.

comp1927 12y ago

Latex's author already prove it wrong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Knuth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Knuth

raldi 12y ago
Prove what wrong?
- isomorphic 12y ago
  I think comp1927 means Knuth proves that one can get better with age. Which is a fine point, but Donald Knuth is a difficult lead to follow.
  - switch_bro 12y ago
    Keep in mind that Knuth is not a software engineer - he makes his living as a tenured professor at Stanford (these days professor emeritus).
isomorphic 12y ago
I grant your point, but that's a bit like saying Einstein was a good physicist.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
gamegoblin 12y ago
Knuth did TeX. LaTeX was Leslie Lamport. LaTex is short for Lamport TeX.
- zaroth 12y ago
  Quite the exclusive clique they've got there.

danieltillett 12y ago

The problem with age is you become less flexible. If your have a business where you know what you will be doing in 6 months time then experience is great - when your plans change weekly then the flexibility of youth is what you want.

jmspring 12y ago
Define "less flexible", someone doing consulting has flexibility to pick and choose clients. Someone who continually learns is capable of picking and choosing technologies. I would think even someone in their twenties would have issues with "plans changing weekly".
- j1o1h1n 12y ago
  Less "flexible" with salary and benefits, presumably.
  - jmspring 12y ago
    I've known people with nest eggs happy to take cuts for something interesting. But I also know with experience comes a skeptical eye for being asked to carry extra load for less upside (yet same or more risk). A story from some time back told to me. Founders had a UI, an algorithm, and an idea. It had merit. They sought someone out to build and run the actual service. The funding was angel, the role was senior to C-level, but the salary offered was 40-60k cut for a senior engineer at the usual suspects, equity capped at 4% assuming a trade off in salary. Risk and reward to build out infrastructure and productize someone's idea? I could certainly get a couple of people to build it out in a "get us to a-round funding" in those guidelines, maybe even beyond. But as expectations on a non-founding senior/early member, one would assume way too much risk for the potential upside. It isn't non-technical founder seeking technical co-founder waters, but damn close.
nemo 12y ago
Age makes employees less flexible in some senses like not being willing to put up with some of the crap that younger people will (60 hour weeks, endless crunches, etc.) I once did, but will no longer tolerate that crap from an employer. But being older doesn't mean you stop learning, adapting to change, or lose the ability to deal with moving targets. I'm hopping rapidly between roles and widely varied tasks at my current gig better than I would have in my 20s or 30s since I've got more perspective and experience. A more mature person might point out that if your plans change weekly you likely have a systemic problem, though, and would be more likely to point out the breakage.

isomorphic 12y ago

I'm over 40 and I've always worked as a consultant. Until recently I was the sole developer on a site doing eight figures in revenue (now I'm team lead). Without being arrogant here, if my skills match but someone doesn't want my level of experience, it's not a good sign for the someone. On the flip side, I would love to throw out all of the languages and frameworks I've been using for the past few years and learn entirely new tech. That's part of the point of being in this business! If you're a startup and have a bias against us greybeards, you're only hurting yourself. We'll learn your framework-du-jour and tell you how it bears an uncanny resemblance to something that didn't work so well in the past. Or maybe we've never seen anything like it, in which case we'll be delighted to cast aside all that old crap.

chx 12y ago
I usually summarize this thusly: "I have already made the mistake you are about to make". It should be obvious the time savings would worth it to "rent" me. And I am months away from my 40th birthday.
- SiVal 12y ago
  It's funny you should say that. A few years ago, at a company whose name everyone here knows I, an old gray-hair, almost lost my full-time job for warning a VP that she was about to make a mistake I'd seen before. I honestly thought she was joking when she told me about the approach she was going to use to deal with a "hard deadline" of four months. I laughed along with her joke until, with a shock, we both realized that I was actually laughing at her actual plan. She became indignant and ended our meeting (just the two of us), getting me transferred for "not being supportive of the team" and trying, unsuccessfully, to get me fired. She gave the job to her three dozen "supportive" young programmers, who ended up taking 28 months (!!) to get the "4-month" project finally working. So, after all that, did she eventually apologize and tell me that, yes, she'd made the same mistake I told her I'd seen before with the same results for the same reason, and that she should have at least asked me more about it instead of throwing me out? Of course not. This is the real world. She never spoke to me again and never forgave me.

elwell 12y ago

> At 40 you should be experienced enough to handle up to mid-sized projects, alone and on a reasonable time-frame At 25...

fsloth 12y ago
I presume a troll? At 25 I graduated as MSc (physics), had not worked a day in the industry, and began my PhD studies. At 26 I figured computer graphics where much more fun than running quantum physical simulations in a lonely cellar and began my software engineering career. At which point I was still pretty clueless of the complexities of software engineering in the industry. The time limit is not age but how much experience one has doing software engineering projects. One needs several unders ones belt, preferably some that have actually shipped so that one sees what the end user implications of the said products are. How long this will take? A couple of years? Hard to say.
- Rainymood 12y ago
  >I presume a troll? At 25 I graduated as MSc (physics), had not worked a day in the industry, and began my PhD studies. At 26 I figured computer graphics where much more fun than running quantum physical simulations in a lonely cellar and began my software engineering career. At which point I was still pretty clueless of the complexities of software engineering in the industry. How did it work out for you? I am curious as I am thinking of shifting from fin. applied math (econometrics) to SE ...
  - fsloth 12y ago
    For me it worked pretty fine careerwise (I'm now 35 to be precise). I'm working now in the technology development department of a multi-discipline CAD vendor, everyone else is really talented and I mostly enjoy my tasks. I even get to write simple linear algebra like a QR decomposition now an then. The job is stable, mentally stimulating and my co-workers are sensible human beings - who are mostly way past their 30s and some over 50s. I turned to software engineering because computer graphics gave and give me such a huge kick. I don't know what intrinsically motivates you so I cannot comment whether I would suggest the career for you or not. Here's the rub: software engineering can be viewed in some circles as blue-collar work, which means the work environments can vary quite a lot. Also, the discipline is really young, and it shows in the amount of cargo cult and bullshit quotes one finds peddled as "best practices". There can be gigs where co-workers are experts and those can be great, however, there can be lot of environments where co-workers are perpetual expert beginners and those can suck big-time (or so I've heard). Realistically, software engineering is still a pretty solid career choice so from a sustenance point of view I'm sure there are far worse options one can choose.

hoboon 12y ago

> Go solo. At 40 you should be experienced enough to handle up to mid-sized projects, alone and on a reasonable time-frame. Try to pick projects that your clients will actually use, someday i might get there.

mtbcoder 12y ago

> More options: - Go solo. As someone who has been 'solo' for a very long time, I have to heavily disagree with this opinion. Going solo isn't as simple or easy as what the OP seems to be implying. Going solo means you are essentially working two jobs at once as it takes a tremendous amount of work and dedication to network, find good projects and keep them rolling in to pay your bills. To further exacerbate things, each year the amount of competition that you face ramps up drastically as more and more workers enter the consulting world who are unable to price themselves correctly and are willing to work for less and less. Furthermore, by going solo, you are now assuming 100% of the risk as to whether or not your new consulting business sinks or swims. Chances are, just like any start up, you will sink. Additionally, you will have added burdens such as insurance requirements, self-employment taxes, various state/county-level taxes (such as gross receipts taxes) and a laundry list of day-to-day operations that you will need to perform that aren't related to software development. Going solo really isn't for most people and I wish we'd all stop perpetuating this myth that it is somehow easily attainable. Remember, a solo consulting business is the easiest business you can start, maintaining one is the most difficult business you can run.