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As a European, I'm totally in favor of a mandatory backdoor for the US government. It would do wonders to the development of the European IT industry because m

As a European, I'm totally in favor of a mandatory backdoor for the US government. It would do wonders to the development of the European IT industry because many governments and cooperations could not continue using US-based IT products. The amount of hubris required to force a backdoor on a global industry and market is really breathtaking and I think the US would shoot themselves in the foot if they tried doing that. It's not like there is a law of nature that makes software development outside of the US impossible.

enupten 12y ago
Well, it's not just the US; the Chinese are doing it too.
- tmalsburg2 12y ago
  The difference is that the vast majority of IT products used in Europe and elsewhere are from the US not China.
  - beagle3 12y ago
    They are designed in the US, but manufactured and assembled in China. The backdoor can be implemented in hardware, firmware or software - anyone who has physical or logical access to any one of a system's components at any point in time can backdoor it. And they probably do.
    - cyphunk 12y ago
      I second what @tmalsburg2... please, make a backdoor mandatory. 20 years after that moment no one but americans will care because people will have moved on to more egalitarian products. when the backdoor is covert and not overtly declared the choice of using the questionable product becomes more economic. the choice gets a lot easier when the government or company clearly states they have a backdoor. for many countries it's not just red flag for using the questioned IT it's a reason to fund industries that compete with a better modal.
      - adventured 12y ago
        Europeans voraciously consume American software with backdoors already (Android, iOS, Windows Phone, Windows), even to the point of destroying their own native systems like Symbian and Nokia. And they do that, with the full knowledge of the NSA spying programs. Unfortunately for your theory, most Europeans clearly do not care enough about their privacy. I don't see any vast European protests about the NSA these post-Snowden days, most people have gone back to sleep. European leaders have largely been 'reassured' enough to remain docile about it, after a brief pretend flash of anger and push-back.
        cyphunk 12y ago
        Point taken. Most do not care about privacy. I would like to see what happens however when backdoors are transparently and honestly declared or legalized. I do think competitors will form in such a market. Will they succeed is a different question.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    I think it's been quite a few years since I bought an assembled piece of gear that was manufactured in the US.
    - tmalsburg2 12y ago
      If the iPhone would turn out to be a major vector for Chinese spyware that would indeed be funny. But you know, if the Chinese use these backdoors to prevent terrorist attacks and to catch pedophiles, we should really be thankful to them.
morgante 12y ago
The UK is already trying to force a back door, so I unfortunately think this destructive thinking is spreading globally.
- tmalsburg2 12y ago
  Not destructive all all, this will rather bring us much-needed diversity to replace a US-centric monoculture. It will also pave the way for the triumph of free software which will prove to be much more resilient against such efforts than proprietary software.
bdcravens 12y ago
Would companies based in the US not ship a different version of their products that are exported? What would it mean for companies outside of the US. A large number of the products and services my company uses are from European countries. > It's not like there is a law of nature that makes software development outside of the US impossible. Of course, see what I said above. I think what makes the US attractive for software development is the VC industry and culture there; a quick browse of founders in SF will reveal a ton of immigrants attracted to that culture.
- tmalsburg2 12y ago
  > Would companies based in the US not ship a different version of their products that are exported? They can of course try that but their clients have little reasons to trust them. Apart from that it might be very costly to develop, test, and distribute two versions of each product and to maintain compatibility, all of which puts US companies at a disadvantage. There is already plenty of evidence for the idea that the privacy crisis helps the European industry. Many new businesses in several European countries are successfully selling privacy-reserving software and services and their future crucially depends on the trust of their customers, so they have to take privacy serious in ways that US companies don't have to, at least for now.

enupten 12y ago

Well, it's not just the US; the Chinese are doing it too.

tmalsburg2 12y ago
The difference is that the vast majority of IT products used in Europe and elsewhere are from the US not China.
- beagle3 12y ago
  They are designed in the US, but manufactured and assembled in China. The backdoor can be implemented in hardware, firmware or software - anyone who has physical or logical access to any one of a system's components at any point in time can backdoor it. And they probably do.
  - cyphunk 12y ago
    I second what @tmalsburg2... please, make a backdoor mandatory. 20 years after that moment no one but americans will care because people will have moved on to more egalitarian products. when the backdoor is covert and not overtly declared the choice of using the questionable product becomes more economic. the choice gets a lot easier when the government or company clearly states they have a backdoor. for many countries it's not just red flag for using the questioned IT it's a reason to fund industries that compete with a better modal.
    - adventured 12y ago
      Europeans voraciously consume American software with backdoors already (Android, iOS, Windows Phone, Windows), even to the point of destroying their own native systems like Symbian and Nokia. And they do that, with the full knowledge of the NSA spying programs. Unfortunately for your theory, most Europeans clearly do not care enough about their privacy. I don't see any vast European protests about the NSA these post-Snowden days, most people have gone back to sleep. European leaders have largely been 'reassured' enough to remain docile about it, after a brief pretend flash of anger and push-back.
      - cyphunk 12y ago
        Point taken. Most do not care about privacy. I would like to see what happens however when backdoors are transparently and honestly declared or legalized. I do think competitors will form in such a market. Will they succeed is a different question.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  I think it's been quite a few years since I bought an assembled piece of gear that was manufactured in the US.
  - tmalsburg2 12y ago
    If the iPhone would turn out to be a major vector for Chinese spyware that would indeed be funny. But you know, if the Chinese use these backdoors to prevent terrorist attacks and to catch pedophiles, we should really be thankful to them.

morgante 12y ago

The UK is already trying to force a back door, so I unfortunately think this destructive thinking is spreading globally.

tmalsburg2 12y ago
Not destructive all all, this will rather bring us much-needed diversity to replace a US-centric monoculture. It will also pave the way for the triumph of free software which will prove to be much more resilient against such efforts than proprietary software.

bdcravens 12y ago

Would companies based in the US not ship a different version of their products that are exported? What would it mean for companies outside of the US. A large number of the products and services my company uses are from European countries. > It's not like there is a law of nature that makes software development outside of the US impossible. Of course, see what I said above. I think what makes the US attractive for software development is the VC industry and culture there; a quick browse of founders in SF will reveal a ton of immigrants attracted to that culture.

tmalsburg2 12y ago
> Would companies based in the US not ship a different version of their products that are exported? They can of course try that but their clients have little reasons to trust them. Apart from that it might be very costly to develop, test, and distribute two versions of each product and to maintain compatibility, all of which puts US companies at a disadvantage. There is already plenty of evidence for the idea that the privacy crisis helps the European industry. Many new businesses in several European countries are successfully selling privacy-reserving software and services and their future crucially depends on the trust of their customers, so they have to take privacy serious in ways that US companies don't have to, at least for now.