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I don't know what you want to discuss, really. Yes, there is a strange element of anti-intellectualism in America. It stems from its form of capitalism and it

I don't know what you want to discuss, really. Yes, there is a strange element of anti-intellectualism in America. It stems from its form of capitalism and it's a shame really, because America has essentially lost its production capability, so if it doesn't compete intellectually, it's not going to compete at all.

dangph 19y ago
Huh? Manufacturing output in the US is at record high levels. http://freetrade.org/pubs/pas/tpa-035es.html http://freetrade.org/pubs/pas/tpa-035es.html
- jsmcgd 19y ago
  I think what is meant is that the US is not a manufacturing world leader and is not as high as it should/could be.
  - dangph 19y ago
    From the executive summary at the link I provided: "And despite all the stories about the erosion of U.S. manufacturing primacy, the United States remains the world's most prolific manufacturer--producing two and a half times more output than those vaunted Chinese factories in 2006."
    - david927 19y ago
      Too bad no one wants it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_current_account_balance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_current_ac...
      - neilc 19y ago
        Hardly: the US exports more than $1 trillion USD of goods per year. The fact that it imports more than that doesn't mean that "no one wants US exports", or that the US "has essentially lost its production capability". Your argument would be more persuasive if you cut out the hyperbole.
        david927 19y ago
        Ok, I'm being dramatic. But that export number includes, for example, when Ford produces a car in Mexico, with Mexican labor, and sells it in Mexico. We've been outsourcing not just blue-collar work, but more and more white-collar work as well. While this is essentially inevitable, it will, in the end, demote America to a second-world country, divided into starkly wealthy areas and dirt poor areas.
      - JeffL 19y ago
        It's not that they don't want what we produce. It's that they are stupid enough to trade us stuff for our fiat pieces of paper that we send in exchange that they hold in reserve.
  - angryprofessor 19y ago
    It's true that we were the world leader once upon a time. From the 20's to the early 40's, we had a major competitive advantage: our factories didn't explode much, whereas European and Japanese factories did. In the late 30's and early 40's, there were also trade barriers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-boat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-boat, http://www.navy.mil http://www.navy.mil) preventing the US from receiving Japanese and European exports. However, in 1945, Europe and Japan figured out how to build non-exploding factories. The trade barriers were also removed. We retained our competitive advantage for some time after that, since it took them time to build up an industrial base. But it is silly to expect us to be world leaders to the extent we were back then. That epidemic of factory explosions was a one time occurrence.
- david927 19y ago
  Huh? An opinion piece from the Cato Institute?
  - dangph 19y ago
    Do you dispute the figures?
    - david927 19y ago
      Yes, because they are clearly not talking in constant dollars and therefore it's meaningless.
kingkongrevenge 19y ago
> a strange element of anti-intellectualism in America There is a healthy distrust of elites claiming authority on the basis of intellect and education. "We are in charge because we're smarter than you and know how to take care of you" really does fly in a lot of other countries. Call it "Mandarinism"; its hallmark is examinations and elite institutions. In America, opposition to this sort of thing goes back to the defeat of the Hamiltonians. As for a general disdain for intellectual pursuits in the culture at large, that's just a bunch of bullshit. It's no different from any other country once you take demographics into account.
- david927 19y ago
  I'm an American living in various countries in Europe for the last 12 years, and really, there's a difference. Americans have a wonderful distrust of those claiming authority. But there is also a lack of respect for education and intelligence. Americans worship the rich, not how they got there. They venerate Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, not Alan Kay or Steve Wozniak. Trust me, there really is a strange element of anti-intellectualism in America.
  - kingkongrevenge 19y ago
    > I'm an American living in various countries I've lived in various countries over 8 years and am otherwise well travelled. I say there's no difference. The popular media is a bit more dumbed down in the US, but that's no reflection of the intellectual pursuits of people in general.

dangph 19y ago

Huh? Manufacturing output in the US is at record high levels. http://freetrade.org/pubs/pas/tpa-035es.html http://freetrade.org/pubs/pas/tpa-035es.html

jsmcgd 19y ago
I think what is meant is that the US is not a manufacturing world leader and is not as high as it should/could be.
- dangph 19y ago
  From the executive summary at the link I provided: "And despite all the stories about the erosion of U.S. manufacturing primacy, the United States remains the world's most prolific manufacturer--producing two and a half times more output than those vaunted Chinese factories in 2006."
  - david927 19y ago
    Too bad no one wants it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_current_account_balance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_current_ac...
    - neilc 19y ago
      Hardly: the US exports more than $1 trillion USD of goods per year. The fact that it imports more than that doesn't mean that "no one wants US exports", or that the US "has essentially lost its production capability". Your argument would be more persuasive if you cut out the hyperbole.
      - david927 19y ago
        Ok, I'm being dramatic. But that export number includes, for example, when Ford produces a car in Mexico, with Mexican labor, and sells it in Mexico. We've been outsourcing not just blue-collar work, but more and more white-collar work as well. While this is essentially inevitable, it will, in the end, demote America to a second-world country, divided into starkly wealthy areas and dirt poor areas.
    - JeffL 19y ago
      It's not that they don't want what we produce. It's that they are stupid enough to trade us stuff for our fiat pieces of paper that we send in exchange that they hold in reserve.
- angryprofessor 19y ago
  It's true that we were the world leader once upon a time. From the 20's to the early 40's, we had a major competitive advantage: our factories didn't explode much, whereas European and Japanese factories did. In the late 30's and early 40's, there were also trade barriers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-boat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-boat, http://www.navy.mil http://www.navy.mil) preventing the US from receiving Japanese and European exports. However, in 1945, Europe and Japan figured out how to build non-exploding factories. The trade barriers were also removed. We retained our competitive advantage for some time after that, since it took them time to build up an industrial base. But it is silly to expect us to be world leaders to the extent we were back then. That epidemic of factory explosions was a one time occurrence.
david927 19y ago
Huh? An opinion piece from the Cato Institute?
- dangph 19y ago
  Do you dispute the figures?
  - david927 19y ago
    Yes, because they are clearly not talking in constant dollars and therefore it's meaningless.

kingkongrevenge 19y ago

> a strange element of anti-intellectualism in America There is a healthy distrust of elites claiming authority on the basis of intellect and education. "We are in charge because we're smarter than you and know how to take care of you" really does fly in a lot of other countries. Call it "Mandarinism"; its hallmark is examinations and elite institutions. In America, opposition to this sort of thing goes back to the defeat of the Hamiltonians. As for a general disdain for intellectual pursuits in the culture at large, that's just a bunch of bullshit. It's no different from any other country once you take demographics into account.

david927 19y ago
I'm an American living in various countries in Europe for the last 12 years, and really, there's a difference. Americans have a wonderful distrust of those claiming authority. But there is also a lack of respect for education and intelligence. Americans worship the rich, not how they got there. They venerate Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, not Alan Kay or Steve Wozniak. Trust me, there really is a strange element of anti-intellectualism in America.
- kingkongrevenge 19y ago
  > I'm an American living in various countries I've lived in various countries over 8 years and am otherwise well travelled. I say there's no difference. The popular media is a bit more dumbed down in the US, but that's no reflection of the intellectual pursuits of people in general.