4 ms·

"Smell" as probable cause needs to disappear. As an extension of this, the existence of drug dogs is extremely irritating to me. It's been seen more than a few

"Smell" as probable cause needs to disappear. As an extension of this, the existence of drug dogs is extremely irritating to me. It's been seen more than a few times that they're commonly trained to react to a cue rather than genuinely detecting illegal substance. Dogs aren't conscious, and they don't have a sense of morality. I have a huge problem with them being used by police and that their 'opinion', if you want to call it that, is respected in a court of law. A dog cannot testify in court. A dog doesn't realize it is lying. It's insulting to the legal system.

swift 12y ago
I agree with pretty much everything you said, but I do think it goes too far to say that dogs aren't conscious. The evidence I have for dog consciousness is about as good as the evidence I have for human consciousness, as far as I'm concerned.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- wmeredith 12y ago
  You're either being absurdly reductive or you're stupid. Human consciousness has given us the works of Shakespeare and put a man on the moon. To equate the two is beyond the pale.
patcon 12y ago
Yeah, I was just thinking that there really should be a legal device that detects the chemicals, so the "strength" of the marijuana smell can be audited and it's not just a subjective way for an officer to justify gut assumptions in escalating
aric 12y ago
One simple trained motion of an officer's hand and a dog will go into frantic, "there must be drugs in the car" mode. Probable cause is created. Several videos have caught cops triggering dogs. Wars on drugs are abysmal entirely. Among many primary sources of havoc and waste on earth that such law creates, arguably the most reaching is its impetus to imbalance power and destroy individual rights and expectations of everyone. Mentality snowballs. A large portion of society is trained to accept increased authority and violation. They laugh at people who attempt to peacefully resist and exercise any remaining rights they have left in the face of 'deletion.'
- def_illiterate 12y ago
  The war on drugs is a jobs program. Period, end of story. It reduces the labor supply by keeping a large segment of society behind bars, and it provides employment in enforcement for a segment of the population who we really, really don't want unemployed (veterans and other folks who are too versed in the application of force to live a quiet civilian life.) It's not good, but I'm not sure the alternative is better.
  - aric 12y ago
    The war on drugs is many things to many people. It's certainly a jobs program in the industries of prison, military, surveillance, gangs, and distribution. Interests become powerful and wealthy through misery and exploitation. That's usual. Entire local economies now form around prisons alone, and in some cases prison labor. > It's not good, but I'm not sure the alternative is better. I prefer the alternative of not abusing people. I prefer an alternative of not stripping away choice and any remaining sovereignty people have. The alternative strives for peace in reality. Undoubtedly, calling a drug war a "jobs program" will sell its violence. There are many ways to package sadism.

swift 12y ago

I agree with pretty much everything you said, but I do think it goes too far to say that dogs aren't conscious. The evidence I have for dog consciousness is about as good as the evidence I have for human consciousness, as far as I'm concerned.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
wmeredith 12y ago
You're either being absurdly reductive or you're stupid. Human consciousness has given us the works of Shakespeare and put a man on the moon. To equate the two is beyond the pale.

patcon 12y ago

Yeah, I was just thinking that there really should be a legal device that detects the chemicals, so the "strength" of the marijuana smell can be audited and it's not just a subjective way for an officer to justify gut assumptions in escalating

aric 12y ago

One simple trained motion of an officer's hand and a dog will go into frantic, "there must be drugs in the car" mode. Probable cause is created. Several videos have caught cops triggering dogs. Wars on drugs are abysmal entirely. Among many primary sources of havoc and waste on earth that such law creates, arguably the most reaching is its impetus to imbalance power and destroy individual rights and expectations of everyone. Mentality snowballs. A large portion of society is trained to accept increased authority and violation. They laugh at people who attempt to peacefully resist and exercise any remaining rights they have left in the face of 'deletion.'

def_illiterate 12y ago
The war on drugs is a jobs program. Period, end of story. It reduces the labor supply by keeping a large segment of society behind bars, and it provides employment in enforcement for a segment of the population who we really, really don't want unemployed (veterans and other folks who are too versed in the application of force to live a quiet civilian life.) It's not good, but I'm not sure the alternative is better.
- aric 12y ago
  The war on drugs is many things to many people. It's certainly a jobs program in the industries of prison, military, surveillance, gangs, and distribution. Interests become powerful and wealthy through misery and exploitation. That's usual. Entire local economies now form around prisons alone, and in some cases prison labor. > It's not good, but I'm not sure the alternative is better. I prefer the alternative of not abusing people. I prefer an alternative of not stripping away choice and any remaining sovereignty people have. The alternative strives for peace in reality. Undoubtedly, calling a drug war a "jobs program" will sell its violence. There are many ways to package sadism.