8 ms·

FWIW, 10.10.0 for me was perfect. 10.10.1 broke my wifi. Anytime the computer woke up from sleep, I'd have to reset the wifi card so it could find my access poi

FWIW, 10.10.0 for me was perfect. 10.10.1 broke my wifi. Anytime the computer woke up from sleep, I'd have to reset the wifi card so it could find my access point. After 10.10.2 came out, I got my second-ever full computer lock-up. I've had the same OS image since 10.5 (migrated and upgraded multiple time, obviously) and this was the second time my computer required a hard reboot. And this was while watching a video in the Steam client. I was in awe. A video forcing me to do a full reboot? Brought back memories of Windows ME. While "upgrading" to 10.10.3, my computer failed to reboot itself. It just sat there, black screen, with a little spinner, for about 2 hours. Hard reboot, everything is back to normal. For now. I fully expect 10.10.4 to actually destroy my hard drive at this point, as well as cause my monitor to spontaneously get 30-40 dead pixels. Sucky part is, I feel I have no alternative. Windows is out of the question after seeing what a factory OEM image comes with nowadays. I'm not giving them money and spending 2 days formatting/reinstalling/seeking out drivers on slow Taiwanese servers just to make a half-usable computer. And then, after all that, spend another 2 days installing various adware infested shitware to get a fricking PDF viewer. And don't get me started on getting a half-decent dev environment going. Ugh. Linux is almost there. It's a crap shoot for me, unless it's running in a VM. I never know which kernel update will fix my trackpad/break my sound/wifi and which will fix the wifi, break suspend, fix sound, but break xrandr or some other archaic XWindows-related technology. So, OS X it is, for the time being.

com2kid 12y ago
> Windows is out of the question after seeing what a factory OEM image comes with nowadays. I'm not giving them money and spending 2 days formatting/reinstalling/seeking out drivers on slow Taiwanese servers just to make a half-usable computer. And then, after all that, spend another 2 days installing various adware infested shitware to get a fricking PDF viewer. Microsoft Signature PCs solve this problem. :) http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Signature-Edition-Computers/categoryID.69916600 http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Signatur...
- PopsiclePete 12y ago
  Don't know how many of these are at, say, Costco. Which is where many people shop. I'm never buying a Windows laptop, so it doesn't affect me, but I'm still the resident "family IT specialist". And I know, I just know I'm going to be asked lots of questions I don't have the patience for, as these poor bastards wonder why their computers are slow, all because the shitty OEM wanted to make a few cents off pre-installed shitware. It doesn't affect me directly, I don't touch Windows laptops unless I'm wearing gloves, but the principle of the thing pisses me off. You're being treated without respect, basically. It's like a car manufacturer selling you a car with a "feature" that takes away 50 HP to play a jingle every time you turn on your headlights, all because the got paid $7.34 by the jingle manufacturer.
  - com2kid 12y ago
    > It's like a car manufacturer selling you a car with a "feature" that takes away 50 HP to play a jingle every time you turn on your headlights, all because the got paid $7.34 by the jingle manufacturer. Not that bad, but my car does come with what amounts for an advertisement for Sirius Radio built in. :( I was also offered a TON of extra add-ons when I bought my car. I'd say it was roughly equivalent to the process of setting up a new low-end PC in regards to the number of ad requests I got. On the PC side, this is all typically mitigated by not buying the cheapest PC possible. In my experience (and this is not universally true!) the higher end SKUs are more customer centric, since at that point the customer is the one paying the entire cost of the device! (See also, Nexus devices versus carrier branded phone models!)
  - venomsnake 12y ago
    Just do clean install. I always do it on friend's new laptops. 10 minutes. Saves lots of time later.
    - com2kid 12y ago
      On Laptops this can actually be rather hard. Many manufacturers use somewhat odd drivers for their keyboards, trackpads, and other components. I know what I am doing, and I still budget a good couple hours worst case to get all the drivers up and running again.
vcxzxcv 12y ago
>Linux is almost there. It's a crap shoot for me Just get Ubuntu Certified Hardware. They have over 500 models of laptops they certify. I have never had a kernel update break wifi. I don't know about all the other stuff, but most distributions store old kernels and allow you to boot back into the old kernel pretty easily. Don't know if this is an option on OS X.
- semi-extrinsic 12y ago
  Hell, I run Arch Linux on a number of laptops and workstations, and the only time I've had a kernel upgrade break anything was the wifi on my wife's old netbook some time around 3.12, and that was Broadcom's fault. So I downgraded to 3.11 (didn't even need network access for that), and a few months later on 3.14 it was working again. Most of the upgrade pain I've had has been caused either by the migration to systemd or by the decision to unify /usr/bin, /bin, /usr/sbin and /sbin into one folder.
- jfoster 12y ago
  One problem with Ubuntu's hardware certification is that it's always for a specific Ubuntu version. I use Ubuntu and would really like it if they would pick at least a few common laptops and commit to ensuring that a certain number of future Ubuntu updates will continue to work perfectly on those laptops. It would help a lot in knowing what to buy.
mattdotc 12y ago
>Windows is out of the question after seeing what a factory OEM image comes with nowadays. Fair play. Research the manufacturer's policy if you're buying pre-built. If you build your own desktops, this is not an issue. >I'm not giving them money and spending 2 days formatting/reinstalling/seeking out drivers on slow Taiwanese servers just to make a half-usable computer. When's the last time you actually installed drivers on a fresh Windows install? I will concede this used to be the case, but nowadays the whole process is much more streamlined. Microsoft has made progress on supporting a lot of hardware drivers via Windows Update. Intel also has a great driver update tool that will scan your system and make recommendations. >And then, after all that, spend another 2 days installing various adware infested shitware to get a fricking PDF viewer. 2 days is rather exaggerated. Most browsers display PDF. If you absolutely need to read a PDF, Foxit Reader is free, as in beer. Yes, you'll have to uncheck some boxes to avoid their bundled software. Big deal. >And don't get me started on getting a half-decent dev environment going. Ugh. Yeah, windows isn't great for a lot of developers' needs. You really could have just left your argument at this rather than spouting off the rest of that FUD. I use Linux, OS X, and Windows all on a regular basis. They have their strengths and weaknesses, like any other products.
- PopsiclePete 12y ago
  >Fair play. Research the manufacturer's policy if you're buying pre-built. If you build your own desktops, this is not an issue. I can build my own desktop, but I can't build my own laptop. I use laptops exclusively for work. >When's the last time you actually installed drivers on a fresh Windows install? Less than year ago on my girlfriend's VAIO laptop, actually. Windows 7. >Microsoft has made progress on supporting a lot of hardware drivers via Windows Update. Intel also has a great driver update tool that will scan your system and make recommendations. Yes, it mostly works, and I'm aware of it, which is why I boldly told my girlfriend I'd take me "an hour or so" to "fix" her laptop issues. Famous last words. And I wasn't exaggerating about "slow Taiwanese servers" - I'm talking less than 100kb/sec transfer speeds. Welcome to 1996. >2 days is rather exaggerated. Most browsers display PDF. If you absolutely need to read a PDF, Foxit Reader is free, as in beer. Yes, you'll have to uncheck some boxes to avoid their bundled software. Big deal. It is a big deal, to me. I don't like being treated like an idiot, being on the look-out for hidden toolbars and spyware every time I double-click "setup.exe". Am I capable of doing it? Yes. Do I want to bother, for a fricking PDF viewer or a java runtime? Absolutely no way, never again. BTW, 19/20 people seem to just leave the default check-boxes checked, since they don't understand what they're being asked and just want a fricking PDF viewer. And Foxit IMO is a PITA. Comes with its own auto-updater too. I have never seen a PDF viewer needing so many automatic updates, so often; big ones, too. Why can OS X come with a nice, bundled, PDF viewer, and the capability to export to PDF from everywhere, and in Windows-land, I'm forced to install either spyware or shit-ware? Why? Why is Windows still stuck in 1997 in this regard? >Yeah, windows isn't great for a lot of developers' needs. You really could have just left your argument at this rather than spouting off the rest of that FUD. FUD? I deal with Windows issues from relatives on a weekly basis. What FUD? Am I imagining all of these issues? Spyware and adware infested boxes that come to a crawl as soon as the poor sap has more than 2 Chrome windows open because the OEM decided that 2 GB is enough for Windows 7 and also installed their own "Media Center Experience" which starts up on boot and is written in .NET WPF, eating whatever RAM there's left? That one wasn't on the VAIO, it was on her previous HP laptop, but point still stands. Yeah, maybe for a power user who built their own computer from scratch and did a clean install and carefully vetted every package as it was installed, sure, yeah nice experience. I have a Windows gaming box that is super lean and mean and it took a lot of effort to get it to this state. But I still find myself scratching my head in disbelief every time a windows user tells me they need a new computer cause their existing one "just got real slow lately" even though they never touched the OS. And I know why it's slow too, I know before I even open it, dreading what I'm going to see in the notification area. P.S. She's a very happy OS X user now, FWIW. One HP and one VAIO laptop later and another Microsoft ex-customer never coming back.
cmurf 12y ago
Instead of OEM Windows image, use this tool to get rid of the crapware (malware in some cases): http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/create-reset-refresh-media http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/create-reset-re... Windows Update is terrible. OS X has that beat. But Windows is ~5 years mainstream support, ~ 10 years extended. With OS X, you don't know. It might be 18 months, it might be 3 years.
mahyarm 12y ago
'Windows signature edition' sides steps the crapware on purchase that most OEMs have. You can buy the machines in the microsoft store.
rodgerd 12y ago
> Windows is out of the question after seeing what a factory OEM image comes with nowadays. FWIW the Signature series Wintel laptops sold through the Microsoft store are base Windows+driver builds, no crapware allowed.
- aceperry 12y ago
  Once you start to install other software though, that's when it becomes a dangerous proposition.
cozzyd 12y ago
>Linux is almost there. It's a crap shoot for me, unless it's running in a VM. I never know which kernel update will fix my trackpad/break my sound/wifi and which will fix the wifi, break suspend, fix sound, but break xrandr or some other archaic XWindows-related technology. Apple could easily write fully functional Linux drivers for their hardware if they wanted to, but they choose not to.
smsm42 12y ago
FWIW, my wifi had similar problems on 10.9. Not every time, but occasionally when it goes to sleep, it doesn't wake up and you have to reset the whole TCP/IP stack to make it work. And lockups after wakeup requiring hard boot are not unheard of either. So it may not be exclusive for 10.10.
kbenson 12y ago
> Windows is out of the question after seeing what a factory OEM image comes with nowadays. I'm not giving them money and spending 2 days formatting/reinstalling/seeking out drivers on slow Taiwanese servers just to make a half-usable computer. "Dude, get a Dell!"[1] Seriously, one of the selling points of a Dell system is rock solid components, and a centralized place to find drivers (at least for the business line of systems). Keep in mind, Dell sells hundreds of thousands (or more?) systems to corporate America, all with support contracts. Everything they can streamline and make more stable and reliable is money in their pocket. I mean, they wrote their own RAID drivers for the AMI and LSI Megaraid chipsets which they resold under the PERC brand, and in my experience, they were better than the manufacturer drivers. That takes dedication. 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Curtis_%28actor%29#The_Dell_Dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Curtis_%28actor%29#The_Dell...

com2kid 12y ago

> Windows is out of the question after seeing what a factory OEM image comes with nowadays. I'm not giving them money and spending 2 days formatting/reinstalling/seeking out drivers on slow Taiwanese servers just to make a half-usable computer. And then, after all that, spend another 2 days installing various adware infested shitware to get a fricking PDF viewer. Microsoft Signature PCs solve this problem. :) http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Signature-Edition-Computers/categoryID.69916600 http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/Signatur...

PopsiclePete 12y ago
Don't know how many of these are at, say, Costco. Which is where many people shop. I'm never buying a Windows laptop, so it doesn't affect me, but I'm still the resident "family IT specialist". And I know, I just know I'm going to be asked lots of questions I don't have the patience for, as these poor bastards wonder why their computers are slow, all because the shitty OEM wanted to make a few cents off pre-installed shitware. It doesn't affect me directly, I don't touch Windows laptops unless I'm wearing gloves, but the principle of the thing pisses me off. You're being treated without respect, basically. It's like a car manufacturer selling you a car with a "feature" that takes away 50 HP to play a jingle every time you turn on your headlights, all because the got paid $7.34 by the jingle manufacturer.
- com2kid 12y ago
  > It's like a car manufacturer selling you a car with a "feature" that takes away 50 HP to play a jingle every time you turn on your headlights, all because the got paid $7.34 by the jingle manufacturer. Not that bad, but my car does come with what amounts for an advertisement for Sirius Radio built in. :( I was also offered a TON of extra add-ons when I bought my car. I'd say it was roughly equivalent to the process of setting up a new low-end PC in regards to the number of ad requests I got. On the PC side, this is all typically mitigated by not buying the cheapest PC possible. In my experience (and this is not universally true!) the higher end SKUs are more customer centric, since at that point the customer is the one paying the entire cost of the device! (See also, Nexus devices versus carrier branded phone models!)
- venomsnake 12y ago
  Just do clean install. I always do it on friend's new laptops. 10 minutes. Saves lots of time later.
  - com2kid 12y ago
    On Laptops this can actually be rather hard. Many manufacturers use somewhat odd drivers for their keyboards, trackpads, and other components. I know what I am doing, and I still budget a good couple hours worst case to get all the drivers up and running again.

vcxzxcv 12y ago

>Linux is almost there. It's a crap shoot for me Just get Ubuntu Certified Hardware. They have over 500 models of laptops they certify. I have never had a kernel update break wifi. I don't know about all the other stuff, but most distributions store old kernels and allow you to boot back into the old kernel pretty easily. Don't know if this is an option on OS X.

semi-extrinsic 12y ago
Hell, I run Arch Linux on a number of laptops and workstations, and the only time I've had a kernel upgrade break anything was the wifi on my wife's old netbook some time around 3.12, and that was Broadcom's fault. So I downgraded to 3.11 (didn't even need network access for that), and a few months later on 3.14 it was working again. Most of the upgrade pain I've had has been caused either by the migration to systemd or by the decision to unify /usr/bin, /bin, /usr/sbin and /sbin into one folder.
jfoster 12y ago
One problem with Ubuntu's hardware certification is that it's always for a specific Ubuntu version. I use Ubuntu and would really like it if they would pick at least a few common laptops and commit to ensuring that a certain number of future Ubuntu updates will continue to work perfectly on those laptops. It would help a lot in knowing what to buy.

mattdotc 12y ago

>Windows is out of the question after seeing what a factory OEM image comes with nowadays. Fair play. Research the manufacturer's policy if you're buying pre-built. If you build your own desktops, this is not an issue. >I'm not giving them money and spending 2 days formatting/reinstalling/seeking out drivers on slow Taiwanese servers just to make a half-usable computer. When's the last time you actually installed drivers on a fresh Windows install? I will concede this used to be the case, but nowadays the whole process is much more streamlined. Microsoft has made progress on supporting a lot of hardware drivers via Windows Update. Intel also has a great driver update tool that will scan your system and make recommendations. >And then, after all that, spend another 2 days installing various adware infested shitware to get a fricking PDF viewer. 2 days is rather exaggerated. Most browsers display PDF. If you absolutely need to read a PDF, Foxit Reader is free, as in beer. Yes, you'll have to uncheck some boxes to avoid their bundled software. Big deal. >And don't get me started on getting a half-decent dev environment going. Ugh. Yeah, windows isn't great for a lot of developers' needs. You really could have just left your argument at this rather than spouting off the rest of that FUD. I use Linux, OS X, and Windows all on a regular basis. They have their strengths and weaknesses, like any other products.

PopsiclePete 12y ago
>Fair play. Research the manufacturer's policy if you're buying pre-built. If you build your own desktops, this is not an issue. I can build my own desktop, but I can't build my own laptop. I use laptops exclusively for work. >When's the last time you actually installed drivers on a fresh Windows install? Less than year ago on my girlfriend's VAIO laptop, actually. Windows 7. >Microsoft has made progress on supporting a lot of hardware drivers via Windows Update. Intel also has a great driver update tool that will scan your system and make recommendations. Yes, it mostly works, and I'm aware of it, which is why I boldly told my girlfriend I'd take me "an hour or so" to "fix" her laptop issues. Famous last words. And I wasn't exaggerating about "slow Taiwanese servers" - I'm talking less than 100kb/sec transfer speeds. Welcome to 1996. >2 days is rather exaggerated. Most browsers display PDF. If you absolutely need to read a PDF, Foxit Reader is free, as in beer. Yes, you'll have to uncheck some boxes to avoid their bundled software. Big deal. It is a big deal, to me. I don't like being treated like an idiot, being on the look-out for hidden toolbars and spyware every time I double-click "setup.exe". Am I capable of doing it? Yes. Do I want to bother, for a fricking PDF viewer or a java runtime? Absolutely no way, never again. BTW, 19/20 people seem to just leave the default check-boxes checked, since they don't understand what they're being asked and just want a fricking PDF viewer. And Foxit IMO is a PITA. Comes with its own auto-updater too. I have never seen a PDF viewer needing so many automatic updates, so often; big ones, too. Why can OS X come with a nice, bundled, PDF viewer, and the capability to export to PDF from everywhere, and in Windows-land, I'm forced to install either spyware or shit-ware? Why? Why is Windows still stuck in 1997 in this regard? >Yeah, windows isn't great for a lot of developers' needs. You really could have just left your argument at this rather than spouting off the rest of that FUD. FUD? I deal with Windows issues from relatives on a weekly basis. What FUD? Am I imagining all of these issues? Spyware and adware infested boxes that come to a crawl as soon as the poor sap has more than 2 Chrome windows open because the OEM decided that 2 GB is enough for Windows 7 and also installed their own "Media Center Experience" which starts up on boot and is written in .NET WPF, eating whatever RAM there's left? That one wasn't on the VAIO, it was on her previous HP laptop, but point still stands. Yeah, maybe for a power user who built their own computer from scratch and did a clean install and carefully vetted every package as it was installed, sure, yeah nice experience. I have a Windows gaming box that is super lean and mean and it took a lot of effort to get it to this state. But I still find myself scratching my head in disbelief every time a windows user tells me they need a new computer cause their existing one "just got real slow lately" even though they never touched the OS. And I know why it's slow too, I know before I even open it, dreading what I'm going to see in the notification area. P.S. She's a very happy OS X user now, FWIW. One HP and one VAIO laptop later and another Microsoft ex-customer never coming back.

cmurf 12y ago

Instead of OEM Windows image, use this tool to get rid of the crapware (malware in some cases): http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/create-reset-refresh-media http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/create-reset-re... Windows Update is terrible. OS X has that beat. But Windows is ~5 years mainstream support, ~ 10 years extended. With OS X, you don't know. It might be 18 months, it might be 3 years.

mahyarm 12y ago

'Windows signature edition' sides steps the crapware on purchase that most OEMs have. You can buy the machines in the microsoft store.

rodgerd 12y ago

> Windows is out of the question after seeing what a factory OEM image comes with nowadays. FWIW the Signature series Wintel laptops sold through the Microsoft store are base Windows+driver builds, no crapware allowed.

aceperry 12y ago
Once you start to install other software though, that's when it becomes a dangerous proposition.

cozzyd 12y ago

>Linux is almost there. It's a crap shoot for me, unless it's running in a VM. I never know which kernel update will fix my trackpad/break my sound/wifi and which will fix the wifi, break suspend, fix sound, but break xrandr or some other archaic XWindows-related technology. Apple could easily write fully functional Linux drivers for their hardware if they wanted to, but they choose not to.

smsm42 12y ago

FWIW, my wifi had similar problems on 10.9. Not every time, but occasionally when it goes to sleep, it doesn't wake up and you have to reset the whole TCP/IP stack to make it work. And lockups after wakeup requiring hard boot are not unheard of either. So it may not be exclusive for 10.10.

kbenson 12y ago

> Windows is out of the question after seeing what a factory OEM image comes with nowadays. I'm not giving them money and spending 2 days formatting/reinstalling/seeking out drivers on slow Taiwanese servers just to make a half-usable computer. "Dude, get a Dell!"[1] Seriously, one of the selling points of a Dell system is rock solid components, and a centralized place to find drivers (at least for the business line of systems). Keep in mind, Dell sells hundreds of thousands (or more?) systems to corporate America, all with support contracts. Everything they can streamline and make more stable and reliable is money in their pocket. I mean, they wrote their own RAID drivers for the AMI and LSI Megaraid chipsets which they resold under the PERC brand, and in my experience, they were better than the manufacturer drivers. That takes dedication. 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Curtis_%28actor%29#The_Dell_Dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Curtis_%28actor%29#The_Dell...