3 ms·

Article touches on some realities that I've witnessed first-hand, such as a starting salary of US$42,840, which, let's be honest, doesn't really go up that much

Article touches on some realities that I've witnessed first-hand, such as a starting salary of US$42,840, which, let's be honest, doesn't really go up that much over the course of 3, 5 or 10 years. Maybe $10k more after 10 years. These are, mostly, people who took out loans to achieve a PhD in a true STEM field...you know, the EXACT professional area that a great number of political / economic / intellectual "leaders" say we need to further support. Yet there's the persistent decline in NIH funding, money going to "safe" research topics (as in, no room to grow the field, just backing winners), and the looming shadow of arrangements where publicly funded research is channelled into private or otherwise "protected" areas. The glut of post docs is basically the symptom of this disease that is ruining a professional, highly skilled field. According to the article, the recommendations put forward recently are similar to the ones mentioned 15 years ago - so, the problem was ignored then / kicked down the road - and now we're on the cusp of a gigantic pile of non-performing student loans because there's no work to be had to earn an income and repay the loans that were taken out in pursuit of work. It's really too bad. This is no easy conundrum, not at all. What's the best advice? If you're looking into bench science as a career, DON'T. Become a veterenarian. Go into geriatric nursing. Basically do anything but try to make a living in science, because it's simply not worth trying anymore.

searine 12y ago
> people who took out loans to achieve a PhD in a true STEM field Most graduate STEM students have tuition reimbursed and are paid a stipend. There is still a glut of post-docs though, and 42K isn't a living wage for a 30 year old person with that kind of skill.
- 6stringmerc 12y ago
  Wait, what? I understand that there is a stipend to working in a lab while as a student (akin to being a TA), but while obtaining a PhD in a top program, I highly doubt tuition is reimbursed, and that still doesn't cover living expenses in a major metropolitan area. I mean, if you can name a Top 25 university from each San Fran, Boston, New York, Atlanta, Baltimore, and Dallas that consistently provide PhD students tuition reimbursement and a stipend that enables a modestly reasonable quality of life, I'd really be interested. I'm a little tongue in cheek here but bear with my skepticism.
  - _rpd 12y ago
    In fact, it is common advice to reject any offers that don't include a tuition waver. It signals that the candidate didn't really meet the department's standards, but that an exception will be made if they are independently wealthy.
  - bkcooper 12y ago
    . . . but while obtaining a PhD in a top program, I highly doubt tuition is reimbursed I'm with the GP here, your experience sounds very weird to me. Tuition remission is a pretty standard benefit, often handled by the department at the beginning, and then eventually by your advisor (but often by that point you're not taking much in the way of classes anyway.)
  - brendano 12y ago
    It's very, very rare that PhD students pay tuition in any reasonable science or engineering program.
  - eddotman 12y ago
    That sounds strange. Pretty much all the top STEM PhD programs (MIT, Harvard, Stanford, etc.) offer a liveable stipend and full tuition reimbursement with medical insurance. e.g. MIT gives like $30k/yr, which is reasonable to live on in Boston, and we never pay a cent of tuition.
    - simonster 12y ago
      Yes, at least at the top tiers, you get paid enough to live on without an additional funding source. OTOH, $30K/year is usually several times less than a good graduate student could make in industry. While the pay is livable, it's difficult to argue that it's market rate. Or to put it another way, academic institutions don't value their employees in a way that's commensurate with their skill set.
  - wfo 12y ago
    Every single PhD Mathematics program I've ever heard of covers full tuition and provides a stipend for the full period of study for the vast majority of its students -- it isn't particularly generous, but it's livable if you're willing to be frugal and focus on your work. The problem is the opportunity cost of someone with mathematical capacity at a doctorate level barely breaking even for 4-6 years before they even begin their career.

searine 12y ago

> people who took out loans to achieve a PhD in a true STEM field Most graduate STEM students have tuition reimbursed and are paid a stipend. There is still a glut of post-docs though, and 42K isn't a living wage for a 30 year old person with that kind of skill.

6stringmerc 12y ago
Wait, what? I understand that there is a stipend to working in a lab while as a student (akin to being a TA), but while obtaining a PhD in a top program, I highly doubt tuition is reimbursed, and that still doesn't cover living expenses in a major metropolitan area. I mean, if you can name a Top 25 university from each San Fran, Boston, New York, Atlanta, Baltimore, and Dallas that consistently provide PhD students tuition reimbursement and a stipend that enables a modestly reasonable quality of life, I'd really be interested. I'm a little tongue in cheek here but bear with my skepticism.
- _rpd 12y ago
  In fact, it is common advice to reject any offers that don't include a tuition waver. It signals that the candidate didn't really meet the department's standards, but that an exception will be made if they are independently wealthy.
- bkcooper 12y ago
  . . . but while obtaining a PhD in a top program, I highly doubt tuition is reimbursed I'm with the GP here, your experience sounds very weird to me. Tuition remission is a pretty standard benefit, often handled by the department at the beginning, and then eventually by your advisor (but often by that point you're not taking much in the way of classes anyway.)
- brendano 12y ago
  It's very, very rare that PhD students pay tuition in any reasonable science or engineering program.
- eddotman 12y ago
  That sounds strange. Pretty much all the top STEM PhD programs (MIT, Harvard, Stanford, etc.) offer a liveable stipend and full tuition reimbursement with medical insurance. e.g. MIT gives like $30k/yr, which is reasonable to live on in Boston, and we never pay a cent of tuition.
  - simonster 12y ago
    Yes, at least at the top tiers, you get paid enough to live on without an additional funding source. OTOH, $30K/year is usually several times less than a good graduate student could make in industry. While the pay is livable, it's difficult to argue that it's market rate. Or to put it another way, academic institutions don't value their employees in a way that's commensurate with their skill set.
- wfo 12y ago
  Every single PhD Mathematics program I've ever heard of covers full tuition and provides a stipend for the full period of study for the vast majority of its students -- it isn't particularly generous, but it's livable if you're willing to be frugal and focus on your work. The problem is the opportunity cost of someone with mathematical capacity at a doctorate level barely breaking even for 4-6 years before they even begin their career.