6 ms·

Typekit launches

96 points by adamhowell 17y ago

kevinholesh 17y ago
Typekit is an excellent service. It allows designers to accomplish some awesome clean looking designs. Example: http://bobulate.com/ http://bobulate.com/
- timb 17y ago
  On that site I can see a sort-of flash of unstyled content as the font loads, but that doesn't seem to happen on Typekit's own pages.
  - kevinholesh 17y ago
    It depends on how fast Typekit's server responds. I'm sure it is extra slow today. I did some unofficial benchmarks on the service while it was still in beta: http://iloveusability.com/usability-review/typekit/ http://iloveusability.com/usability-review/typekit/ It'll be interesting to see how well their servers perform under a heavier load.
    - ErrantX 17y ago
      That's put me off a lot; I'd expect them to be using a service that is very stable to scale now they have launched. The fact their own site is intermittent today is worrying.
- flooha 17y ago
  Curiously, the fonts on that page didn't render particularly well for me (Vista/Firefox) http://imgur.com/uHeAq.jpg http://imgur.com/uHeAq.jpg
- hellotoby 17y ago
  Unfortunately, for me anyway, the text on that page is really difficult to read and seems somewhat blurry. Perhaps not the best example...
adamhowell 17y ago
Jeff, Greg and Ryan (3/4s of Typekit) spent a year redesigning Analytics after Google bought Measure Map. Jeff once said that -- using the Analytics APIs they had access to -- Greg and Ryan basically prototyped a fully working version of Analytics as we know it today in a/b a month. It then took the remaining 11 months of them working with Goog engineers, PMs, etc. to get the thing out the door. They're an amazing team and I'm looking forward to following along w/ the success of Typekit.
lsb 17y ago
The server's falling down, but that looks beautiful, and quite useful.
- paraschopra 17y ago
  Apparently they guarantee 100% uptime for their service
jrnkntl 17y ago
This looks awesome and these launch offers are -way- cheaper than the normal prices on a per month basis. How long are these gonna last?
- decadentcactus 17y ago
  Hoping it's the duration of your account. I'm tempted to sign up even though I don't need it, just for the future.
  - jrnkntl 17y ago
    Yes, my point exactly :)
jsdalton 17y ago
Why this, as opposed to sIFR, Cufon, or other free techniques that are currently being used for font replacement? (Honest question.)
- adamhowell 17y ago
  Couple reasons: 1) sIFR, Cufon, image-replacement, etc. each have their own problems. Hard to setup, can't select the text, tedious to maintain, requires opening Flash CS4, etc. 2) @font-face is the future, but most paid font foundries refuse to support it b/c it requires the font file to be linked to on the server. So designers can legally use free fonts with @font-face but not fonts they've purchsed. So, Typekit is an attempt to keep the font foundries happy by hosting the font file and preventing unauthorized downloading, while keeping an eye on ease-of-use and the future of the web by doing most of the @font-face heavy-lifting.
  - endtwist 17y ago
    Another option many people seem to be unaware of is Typeface.js: http://typeface.neocracy.org/ http://typeface.neocracy.org/ It supports text selection, requires zero thought once it's set up, and works in every major browser. The only major downside is that you need to convert each font to typeface.js' JSON font format, which adds a bit of heft. At the same time of course, I definitely support what Typekit is trying to do, since most font foundries won't be happy with (m)any other solutions. Too bad this discounted pricing won't last!
    - tptacek 17y ago
      It also probably violates the license of most of the fonts you'd want to use with it.
  - antidaily 17y ago
    @font-face in action for those you haven't seen or noticed it: http://www.alistapart.com/d/cssatten/drim.html http://www.alistapart.com/d/cssatten/drim.html
  - 17y ago
Tichy 17y ago
I miss information on how it works. Does it render fonts as images? Or maybe it uses some new HTML 5 feature? Or it requires an ActiveX plugin?
- niels 17y ago
  It uses webfonts: http://webfonts.info http://webfonts.info
  - Tichy 17y ago
    Thanks. I guess that means it'll be ready for mass adoptions in five years or so?
kalendae 17y ago
Chrome currently does not support @font-face by default so this does not work on chrome for me unless i run it with a command line option to enable it.
viraptor 17y ago
I love the idea... unfortunately something is seriously wrong with their website. They're selling fonts you can use on other websites. I'd expect that they know a lot about fonts - yet, when you look at their own source: font-family:arial,sans-serif; Why don't they buy at least one really high quality font from (for example) Linotype? Not even for reselling, but for use on their own website - to show the difference it can make... Why do they try to sell fonts for websites, but don't try to blow my mind by using one of ITCs, or Vialog, or something else for their own main text.
- diN0bot 17y ago
  exactly. i'm not a designer, so i'm obviously out of the loop. still curious about what's going on, though. thus: how much difference do fonts make? any a/b tests? any qualitative urls you can recommend that will blow my mind? keep in mind i use a mac...windows and buttons and fonts already look pretty.
- ThomPete 17y ago
  well my guess is that the fon't is hiding here <h1 class="tk-bello-pro" style="visibility:hidden"> The easiest way to use <em>Real Fonts</em> <span>on your website</span> </h1> the big fat "The easiest way to use Real Fonts on your website" is actually a real font
  - viraptor 17y ago
    I meant the normal body text to be honest. Instead of showing off with one frame, why not typeset the whole page in one of the fonts? I couldn't find anything both toned down and "different" in there, but this might come close: http://typekit.com/fonts/392 http://typekit.com/fonts/392 Give it more spacing and you could use it for "normal" text (or even http://typekit.com/fonts/129 http://typekit.com/fonts/129 if they want to stay with web2.0-ish sans)
    - joshuacc 17y ago
      Probably because on Windows most of the fonts they have available would look blurry at less than 18px tall. This is due to the way font-hinting and anti-aliasing works (at least in Vista and XP).
almost 17y ago
So which browsers and OSs are supported then? Because when I go to browse fonts I just see a whole load of Arial :p A search function would be good too, the question I want answered is can I do my existing design using it.
- appathy 17y ago
  I'm seeing all Arial too. I think their servers are buckling under the load.
Silhouette 17y ago
There are several outfits trying to do this lately, but I just can't see these services gaining much traction. They seem to exist to provide for the whims of font foundries who want to eat their cake and have it, in a way that no-one else gets. The stock images and icons on web sites can all be downloaded and used on other sites illegally as well, yet in practice this hasn't killed either the stock suppliers or the web in general! Meanwhile, why would any professional web design firm recommend to their clients that they commit to writing a blank cheque, indefinitely, after the design contract is finished, (edit: and relying on a service outside of their control!), just to keep their site up and running and looking correct? It's not as if there aren't alternatives for the cases where use of non-web-safe fonts makes a difference: we've been using custom images, even dynamic image replacement techniques, since forever. These don't really scale from occasional uses like headings and pull quotes to the full volume of body text, but for typical body text sizes using custom fonts is unlikely to gain any useful improvement anyway; even most pro-grade don't have the kind of hinting that the Microsoft and Apple standard fonts have. So I have to wonder, why should the world bend to the font foundries' obsolete business models, when there are numerous alternative technologies available that get the same wow factor where it counts, there are many free fonts available (including a few genuinely of professional quality these days), and there just isn't much of a compelling selling point from the client's point of view to signing up for fonts-as-a-service?
- viraptor 17y ago
  It's not really the same to use images... It's not uncommon to see websites with a light feel, where main pages contain actual paragraphs of text at size 16-18pt - you can actually make a really good impression by changing the font to something elegant in that case. You don't need any sacrifices for usability, SEO or content management when you design those pages. The text is there for everyone and owner of the website can edit it without going through image exports, etc. Of course it won't look as good as it would in a pdf for a couple more years, but it's a good start anyways.
  - Silhouette 17y ago
    Can you give any examples of pages where you think the use of an alternative font has improved the display of body text? I'd be happy to find cases where it makes a real difference, but it has been my experience that there just isn't enough variation at typical screen resolutions between, say, one mainstream serif font and another, that the choice of font is the deciding factor in terms of impact and legibility. Good appearance on-screen seems to be governed much more by basic design characteristics such as x-height, and by the quality of the hinting, and frankly even the serious font foundries suck at those things in comparison to the Microsoft C-fonts that were designed for anti-aliasing, the old stand-bys of Georgia and Verdana that were designed with screen use in mind, etc.
noodle 17y ago
i love the idea, but there's no way i'm going to pay for the service until it supports IE, at least (i can accept that it doesn't work on chrome and the like, for now). i hate IE, but its still a huge chunk of the browser segment.
- halo 17y ago
  It does support IE - IE has supported @font-face for the EOT format since IE5.5, it was originally a proprietary IE property that has since been standardised.
  - noodle 17y ago
    edit: nevermind. i misread the statement that displays when you visit the site with an unsupported browser. it read in such a way, though, that made me believe that it wasn't supported with IE. it might help to clarify that, a bit.
hkuo 17y ago
I made a point on their GetSatisfaction feedback page, and will state again, if they can somehow lay down the cash for one or two of the most-used designer fonts, say, Helvetica Neue, or Gotham, or Garamond, then designers and web designers would flock to this service. Additionally, if they were to add a few of the popular-to-designer bit type faces, such as any of the FFF fonts, then again, designers would eat that up. Designers just have their standard kit of faces they turn to.
oliverkofoed 17y ago
I looked into using @font-face for a project a week or two ago. I ended up not using it because most fonts (i tried a lot) looks really bad anti-aliasing turned off; especially at the small (body-text) font sizes. If only there was a way to tell the browser to only use the fonts if anti-aliasing was turned on
numair 17y ago
They need to concentrate on making this work in closed environments where the developer/designer is certain that a compatible browser is being used; it will be many years before someone can use this for a practical application on the "open web." Basically, iPhone-specific websites could make them all of their money, if they could make it work correctly with the browser (the front page looked fine, but the font sample page seemed to be a bit off). In fact, I would use and pay for this myself if it were marketed as an enhanced typography library for iPhone web apps.
qeorge 17y ago
I really like the idea, but there are some implementation problems I haven't yet seen addressed. I'm very much in the target market (web designer / developer), and I'd like very much for this to work, but I just don't see it. Here's my issues / questions, would be interested in hearing why I'm wrong: - The fonts available on typekit aren't the ones I want to use. Without support for the Linotype / ITC / Adobe fonts, I'm left choosing a font from what you do offer, and at that point I might as well just choose a free one and host it myself. Any plans to get the big-name foundries on board? FWIW, the fonts I most often need this for are the various flavors of Helvetica, Gotham, Trajan Pro, and Myriad Pro. - The main benefit to cufon/sIFR/etc is that it works with all browsers, specifically those that don't support @font-face. This doesn't solve that problem. I know typekit falls back to standard fonts, but I can do that. - I usually avoid fancy fonts in all but headings and other large elements. If the text is static its not a big deal to save the text in Photoshop and use text-indent to replace the plaintext. Dynamic text, like blog post titles, is a pain in the ass, but cufon / sIFR handles that case well enough. - Its one more server and one more fee added to the equation. Furthermore, I don't have enough confidence in this business model to trust the service to remain around forever.
shortformblog 17y ago
Just dropping in to note Kernest (http://kernest.com/ http://kernest.com/), which uses @font-face as well, but without the Javascript that makes Typekit somewhat undesirable. I tried it a few months ago and really liked it: http://shortformblog.com/tech/the-importance-of-knowing-kernest-pretty-high-your-move-typekit http://shortformblog.com/tech/the-importance-of-knowing-kern... Then I used it in my site redesign, which conveniently used a font Kernest was already using. Kernest's weaknesses on the site are offset by its strengths in implementation and ease of use. Typekit, however, uses javascript for DRM when it isn't really necessary. Kernest uses a server-side whitelist solution which is much cleaner to load. So there's my pitch for Kernest. Typekit seemed cool at first, but the cost struck me as too high and I'd rather use javascript for functionality, not design.
hackoder 17y ago
The biggest problem with this is that your own web site/app depends on some other web site being up. Or am I reading this wrong?
- shortformblog 17y ago
  How many sites have Facebook Connect logins, Disqus comments or tons of YouTube videos? It's not exactly a new concept. Though this particular implementation gives me pause, mainly due to its cost and the way it locks you into a model.
bombs 17y ago
It's a pity that to use the fonts I would like to on my single website, I'd have to sign up for the portfolio plan, which is a reasonable $49.99 for the first year, but jumping up to $17 a month thereafter. It's too much for me to justify, when the font could be purchased for $40, with a license that allowed the use of sIFR.

96 points by adamhowell 17y ago

Typekit is an excellent service. It allows designers to accomplish some awesome clean looking designs. Example: http://bobulate.com/ http://bobulate.com/

timb 17y ago
On that site I can see a sort-of flash of unstyled content as the font loads, but that doesn't seem to happen on Typekit's own pages.
- kevinholesh 17y ago
  It depends on how fast Typekit's server responds. I'm sure it is extra slow today. I did some unofficial benchmarks on the service while it was still in beta: http://iloveusability.com/usability-review/typekit/ http://iloveusability.com/usability-review/typekit/ It'll be interesting to see how well their servers perform under a heavier load.
  - ErrantX 17y ago
    That's put me off a lot; I'd expect them to be using a service that is very stable to scale now they have launched. The fact their own site is intermittent today is worrying.
flooha 17y ago
Curiously, the fonts on that page didn't render particularly well for me (Vista/Firefox) http://imgur.com/uHeAq.jpg http://imgur.com/uHeAq.jpg
hellotoby 17y ago
Unfortunately, for me anyway, the text on that page is really difficult to read and seems somewhat blurry. Perhaps not the best example...

adamhowell 17y ago

Jeff, Greg and Ryan (3/4s of Typekit) spent a year redesigning Analytics after Google bought Measure Map. Jeff once said that -- using the Analytics APIs they had access to -- Greg and Ryan basically prototyped a fully working version of Analytics as we know it today in a/b a month. It then took the remaining 11 months of them working with Goog engineers, PMs, etc. to get the thing out the door. They're an amazing team and I'm looking forward to following along w/ the success of Typekit.

lsb 17y ago

The server's falling down, but that looks beautiful, and quite useful.

paraschopra 17y ago
Apparently they guarantee 100% uptime for their service

jrnkntl 17y ago

This looks awesome and these launch offers are -way- cheaper than the normal prices on a per month basis. How long are these gonna last?

decadentcactus 17y ago
Hoping it's the duration of your account. I'm tempted to sign up even though I don't need it, just for the future.
- jrnkntl 17y ago
  Yes, my point exactly :)

jsdalton 17y ago

Why this, as opposed to sIFR, Cufon, or other free techniques that are currently being used for font replacement? (Honest question.)

adamhowell 17y ago
Couple reasons: 1) sIFR, Cufon, image-replacement, etc. each have their own problems. Hard to setup, can't select the text, tedious to maintain, requires opening Flash CS4, etc. 2) @font-face is the future, but most paid font foundries refuse to support it b/c it requires the font file to be linked to on the server. So designers can legally use free fonts with @font-face but not fonts they've purchsed. So, Typekit is an attempt to keep the font foundries happy by hosting the font file and preventing unauthorized downloading, while keeping an eye on ease-of-use and the future of the web by doing most of the @font-face heavy-lifting.
- endtwist 17y ago
  Another option many people seem to be unaware of is Typeface.js: http://typeface.neocracy.org/ http://typeface.neocracy.org/ It supports text selection, requires zero thought once it's set up, and works in every major browser. The only major downside is that you need to convert each font to typeface.js' JSON font format, which adds a bit of heft. At the same time of course, I definitely support what Typekit is trying to do, since most font foundries won't be happy with (m)any other solutions. Too bad this discounted pricing won't last!
  - tptacek 17y ago
    It also probably violates the license of most of the fonts you'd want to use with it.
- antidaily 17y ago
  @font-face in action for those you haven't seen or noticed it: http://www.alistapart.com/d/cssatten/drim.html http://www.alistapart.com/d/cssatten/drim.html
- 17y ago

Tichy 17y ago

I miss information on how it works. Does it render fonts as images? Or maybe it uses some new HTML 5 feature? Or it requires an ActiveX plugin?

niels 17y ago
It uses webfonts: http://webfonts.info http://webfonts.info
- Tichy 17y ago
  Thanks. I guess that means it'll be ready for mass adoptions in five years or so?

kalendae 17y ago

Chrome currently does not support @font-face by default so this does not work on chrome for me unless i run it with a command line option to enable it.

viraptor 17y ago

I love the idea... unfortunately something is seriously wrong with their website. They're selling fonts you can use on other websites. I'd expect that they know a lot about fonts - yet, when you look at their own source: font-family:arial,sans-serif; Why don't they buy at least one really high quality font from (for example) Linotype? Not even for reselling, but for use on their own website - to show the difference it can make... Why do they try to sell fonts for websites, but don't try to blow my mind by using one of ITCs, or Vialog, or something else for their own main text.

diN0bot 17y ago
exactly. i'm not a designer, so i'm obviously out of the loop. still curious about what's going on, though. thus: how much difference do fonts make? any a/b tests? any qualitative urls you can recommend that will blow my mind? keep in mind i use a mac...windows and buttons and fonts already look pretty.
ThomPete 17y ago
well my guess is that the fon't is hiding here <h1 class="tk-bello-pro" style="visibility:hidden"> The easiest way to use <em>Real Fonts</em> <span>on your website</span> </h1> the big fat "The easiest way to use Real Fonts on your website" is actually a real font
- viraptor 17y ago
  I meant the normal body text to be honest. Instead of showing off with one frame, why not typeset the whole page in one of the fonts? I couldn't find anything both toned down and "different" in there, but this might come close: http://typekit.com/fonts/392 http://typekit.com/fonts/392 Give it more spacing and you could use it for "normal" text (or even http://typekit.com/fonts/129 http://typekit.com/fonts/129 if they want to stay with web2.0-ish sans)
  - joshuacc 17y ago
    Probably because on Windows most of the fonts they have available would look blurry at less than 18px tall. This is due to the way font-hinting and anti-aliasing works (at least in Vista and XP).

almost 17y ago

So which browsers and OSs are supported then? Because when I go to browse fonts I just see a whole load of Arial :p A search function would be good too, the question I want answered is can I do my existing design using it.

appathy 17y ago
I'm seeing all Arial too. I think their servers are buckling under the load.

Silhouette 17y ago

There are several outfits trying to do this lately, but I just can't see these services gaining much traction. They seem to exist to provide for the whims of font foundries who want to eat their cake and have it, in a way that no-one else gets. The stock images and icons on web sites can all be downloaded and used on other sites illegally as well, yet in practice this hasn't killed either the stock suppliers or the web in general! Meanwhile, why would any professional web design firm recommend to their clients that they commit to writing a blank cheque, indefinitely, after the design contract is finished, (edit: and relying on a service outside of their control!), just to keep their site up and running and looking correct? It's not as if there aren't alternatives for the cases where use of non-web-safe fonts makes a difference: we've been using custom images, even dynamic image replacement techniques, since forever. These don't really scale from occasional uses like headings and pull quotes to the full volume of body text, but for typical body text sizes using custom fonts is unlikely to gain any useful improvement anyway; even most pro-grade don't have the kind of hinting that the Microsoft and Apple standard fonts have. So I have to wonder, why should the world bend to the font foundries' obsolete business models, when there are numerous alternative technologies available that get the same wow factor where it counts, there are many free fonts available (including a few genuinely of professional quality these days), and there just isn't much of a compelling selling point from the client's point of view to signing up for fonts-as-a-service?

viraptor 17y ago
It's not really the same to use images... It's not uncommon to see websites with a light feel, where main pages contain actual paragraphs of text at size 16-18pt - you can actually make a really good impression by changing the font to something elegant in that case. You don't need any sacrifices for usability, SEO or content management when you design those pages. The text is there for everyone and owner of the website can edit it without going through image exports, etc. Of course it won't look as good as it would in a pdf for a couple more years, but it's a good start anyways.
- Silhouette 17y ago
  Can you give any examples of pages where you think the use of an alternative font has improved the display of body text? I'd be happy to find cases where it makes a real difference, but it has been my experience that there just isn't enough variation at typical screen resolutions between, say, one mainstream serif font and another, that the choice of font is the deciding factor in terms of impact and legibility. Good appearance on-screen seems to be governed much more by basic design characteristics such as x-height, and by the quality of the hinting, and frankly even the serious font foundries suck at those things in comparison to the Microsoft C-fonts that were designed for anti-aliasing, the old stand-bys of Georgia and Verdana that were designed with screen use in mind, etc.

noodle 17y ago

i love the idea, but there's no way i'm going to pay for the service until it supports IE, at least (i can accept that it doesn't work on chrome and the like, for now). i hate IE, but its still a huge chunk of the browser segment.

halo 17y ago
It does support IE - IE has supported @font-face for the EOT format since IE5.5, it was originally a proprietary IE property that has since been standardised.
- noodle 17y ago
  edit: nevermind. i misread the statement that displays when you visit the site with an unsupported browser. it read in such a way, though, that made me believe that it wasn't supported with IE. it might help to clarify that, a bit.

hkuo 17y ago

I made a point on their GetSatisfaction feedback page, and will state again, if they can somehow lay down the cash for one or two of the most-used designer fonts, say, Helvetica Neue, or Gotham, or Garamond, then designers and web designers would flock to this service. Additionally, if they were to add a few of the popular-to-designer bit type faces, such as any of the FFF fonts, then again, designers would eat that up. Designers just have their standard kit of faces they turn to.

oliverkofoed 17y ago

I looked into using @font-face for a project a week or two ago. I ended up not using it because most fonts (i tried a lot) looks really bad anti-aliasing turned off; especially at the small (body-text) font sizes. If only there was a way to tell the browser to only use the fonts if anti-aliasing was turned on

numair 17y ago

They need to concentrate on making this work in closed environments where the developer/designer is certain that a compatible browser is being used; it will be many years before someone can use this for a practical application on the "open web." Basically, iPhone-specific websites could make them all of their money, if they could make it work correctly with the browser (the front page looked fine, but the font sample page seemed to be a bit off). In fact, I would use and pay for this myself if it were marketed as an enhanced typography library for iPhone web apps.

qeorge 17y ago

I really like the idea, but there are some implementation problems I haven't yet seen addressed. I'm very much in the target market (web designer / developer), and I'd like very much for this to work, but I just don't see it. Here's my issues / questions, would be interested in hearing why I'm wrong: - The fonts available on typekit aren't the ones I want to use. Without support for the Linotype / ITC / Adobe fonts, I'm left choosing a font from what you do offer, and at that point I might as well just choose a free one and host it myself. Any plans to get the big-name foundries on board? FWIW, the fonts I most often need this for are the various flavors of Helvetica, Gotham, Trajan Pro, and Myriad Pro. - The main benefit to cufon/sIFR/etc is that it works with all browsers, specifically those that don't support @font-face. This doesn't solve that problem. I know typekit falls back to standard fonts, but I can do that. - I usually avoid fancy fonts in all but headings and other large elements. If the text is static its not a big deal to save the text in Photoshop and use text-indent to replace the plaintext. Dynamic text, like blog post titles, is a pain in the ass, but cufon / sIFR handles that case well enough. - Its one more server and one more fee added to the equation. Furthermore, I don't have enough confidence in this business model to trust the service to remain around forever.

shortformblog 17y ago

Just dropping in to note Kernest (http://kernest.com/ http://kernest.com/), which uses @font-face as well, but without the Javascript that makes Typekit somewhat undesirable. I tried it a few months ago and really liked it: http://shortformblog.com/tech/the-importance-of-knowing-kernest-pretty-high-your-move-typekit http://shortformblog.com/tech/the-importance-of-knowing-kern... Then I used it in my site redesign, which conveniently used a font Kernest was already using. Kernest's weaknesses on the site are offset by its strengths in implementation and ease of use. Typekit, however, uses javascript for DRM when it isn't really necessary. Kernest uses a server-side whitelist solution which is much cleaner to load. So there's my pitch for Kernest. Typekit seemed cool at first, but the cost struck me as too high and I'd rather use javascript for functionality, not design.

hackoder 17y ago

The biggest problem with this is that your own web site/app depends on some other web site being up. Or am I reading this wrong?

shortformblog 17y ago
How many sites have Facebook Connect logins, Disqus comments or tons of YouTube videos? It's not exactly a new concept. Though this particular implementation gives me pause, mainly due to its cost and the way it locks you into a model.

bombs 17y ago

It's a pity that to use the fonts I would like to on my single website, I'd have to sign up for the portfolio plan, which is a reasonable $49.99 for the first year, but jumping up to $17 a month thereafter. It's too much for me to justify, when the font could be purchased for $40, with a license that allowed the use of sIFR.