9 ms·

Anyone got ideas for a CV Dazzle[1] equivalent for license plates? I'm imagining "dirt" used to partially obscure some of the characters, in such a way that a h

Anyone got ideas for a CV Dazzle[1] equivalent for license plates? I'm imagining "dirt" used to partially obscure some of the characters, in such a way that a human police officer would be able to tell the difference but a text recognition algorithm would either fail or interpret it wrong. Maybe make an 'I' look like an 'F' or a 'T', that kind of thing. [1] http://cvdazzle.com/ http://cvdazzle.com/

Zikes 12y ago
Some states have laws against anything at all obscuring a license plate, even dealer or vanity frames.
iancarroll 12y ago
There was an Indiegogo campaign for a license plate frame which would flash a bright light if it detected a camera to blind it. http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2012/10/23/nophoto_license_plate_device_defeats_red_light_cameras.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2012/10/23/nophoto_l...
- tlrobinson 12y ago
  That can only detect cameras which use flashes (red light cameras, etc). AFAIK the "license plate readers" don't have flashes. However, they apparently do have infrared LEDs, which could be detected: https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-21/dc-21-presentations/Pukingmonkey/DEFCON-21-Pukingmonkey-The-Road-Less-Surreptitiously-Traveled-Updated.pdf https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-21/dc-21-presentations/...
  - dublinben 12y ago
    Thanks for posting this presentation. I shouldn't be surprised that the most thorough examination of this issue would have been presented at Defcon.
sp332 12y ago
It would be difficult. Even CV Dazzle only works against a single popular algorithm that's stripped-down for speed. Human faces vary a lot; license plates, not so much. A license-plate reader would be more robust and harder to consistently fool.
Zelphyr 12y ago
CV Dazzle looks interesting. I suspect what we're looking at in those pictures is common everyday fashion of the future. As our governments start implementing automatic face/license plate/whatever detection people are going to implement measures to evade them which will make their way into general society as benign fashion statements.
- sp332 12y ago
  Or you could participate in democracy and get policy changed?
  - Zelphyr 12y ago
    I don't think you've met the average of-voting-age American. :) They're more interested in how they look than in how their country is run.
    - sp332 12y ago
      I know you're (mostly) joking but this defeatist attitude is depressing. It's not to late to change this, and what you can do is not too little.
jolan 12y ago
I know people in Illinois used to avoid the toll booth license plate cameras by bending their motorcycle license plates upwards since it only looks for flat rectangles. Another option would be opt out completely and ride a bike.
- exhilaration 12y ago
  Uber paid with a gift visa or amex card, purchased with cash at any mall.
throwawayplate 12y ago
I've seen a few attempts using IR LEDs to wash out cameras, but none that are very convincing. There may be some merit to this approach though, if implemented with more luminous LEDs at higher power, etc. Something like this http://blog.workingsi.com/2011/06/improved-high-power-ir-led-speedred.html http://blog.workingsi.com/2011/06/improved-high-power-ir-led... http://www.sunflexzone.com/product/stealth-anti-tracking-ir-infrared-license-plate-privacy-frame-alpr-countermeasure http://www.sunflexzone.com/product/stealth-anti-tracking-ir-...
eli 12y ago
There are already a variety of covers, lens, lights, and reflective paint for obscuring your license plate (to avoid speed camera tickets and paying tolls). And of course, doing so is already illegal in many places. See e.g. https://www.phantomplate.com/ https://www.phantomplate.com/
- ics 12y ago
  Not the best source, but I recall Mythbusters testing some of these things years ago without any success. That site is particularly scammy ($500 to get started as a dealer! "I made over $21k in less than half a day!") but do you know of any that are actually verified to work?
- rdtsc 12y ago
  That would be a great business to go into if someone is shady. Look, pay us $1000 to hide from police. What are they going to do, call the police next time they are caught running a red light -- "please arrest this company they promised I could run red lights without being caught". It would be kind of like people calling the police complaining their illegal drug stash was stolen.
  - Intermernet 12y ago
    Like this? http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/stupid/man-says-wife-stole-his-cocaine-897521 http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/stupid/man-says-wife-...
atwebb 12y ago
Rectangular bumper stickers on either side that resemble a plate? Add some numbers on the side to resemble a plate? There are already a number of solutions for obscuring them from cameras, probably going to be hard to find something legal that works well and can't be coded against.
joezydeco 12y ago
PukingMoney's excellent presentation at DEFCON 21 has some tips on how one can (legally and illegaly) obfuscate your plate. https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-21/dc-21-presentations/Pukingmonkey/DEFCON-21-Pukingmonkey-The-Road-Less-Surreptitiously-Traveled-Updated.pdf https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-21/dc-21-presentations/... It's a really great primer on a number of issues concerning free travel in the USA and what law enforcement can and cannot do. Also covers other possible ways that the government can track your vehicle (toll transponders, tire sensors, etc). Read the whole thing when you have time.
- AngrySkillzz 12y ago
  Thanks, this is fascinating and exactly what I was looking for.
- FLUX-YOU 12y ago
  ... Why the fuck is FEMA funding this?!

Zikes 12y ago

Some states have laws against anything at all obscuring a license plate, even dealer or vanity frames.

iancarroll 12y ago

There was an Indiegogo campaign for a license plate frame which would flash a bright light if it detected a camera to blind it. http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2012/10/23/nophoto_license_plate_device_defeats_red_light_cameras.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2012/10/23/nophoto_l...

tlrobinson 12y ago
That can only detect cameras which use flashes (red light cameras, etc). AFAIK the "license plate readers" don't have flashes. However, they apparently do have infrared LEDs, which could be detected: https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-21/dc-21-presentations/Pukingmonkey/DEFCON-21-Pukingmonkey-The-Road-Less-Surreptitiously-Traveled-Updated.pdf https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-21/dc-21-presentations/...
- dublinben 12y ago
  Thanks for posting this presentation. I shouldn't be surprised that the most thorough examination of this issue would have been presented at Defcon.

sp332 12y ago

It would be difficult. Even CV Dazzle only works against a single popular algorithm that's stripped-down for speed. Human faces vary a lot; license plates, not so much. A license-plate reader would be more robust and harder to consistently fool.

Zelphyr 12y ago

CV Dazzle looks interesting. I suspect what we're looking at in those pictures is common everyday fashion of the future. As our governments start implementing automatic face/license plate/whatever detection people are going to implement measures to evade them which will make their way into general society as benign fashion statements.

sp332 12y ago
Or you could participate in democracy and get policy changed?
- Zelphyr 12y ago
  I don't think you've met the average of-voting-age American. :) They're more interested in how they look than in how their country is run.
  - sp332 12y ago
    I know you're (mostly) joking but this defeatist attitude is depressing. It's not to late to change this, and what you can do is not too little.

jolan 12y ago

I know people in Illinois used to avoid the toll booth license plate cameras by bending their motorcycle license plates upwards since it only looks for flat rectangles. Another option would be opt out completely and ride a bike.

exhilaration 12y ago
Uber paid with a gift visa or amex card, purchased with cash at any mall.

throwawayplate 12y ago

I've seen a few attempts using IR LEDs to wash out cameras, but none that are very convincing. There may be some merit to this approach though, if implemented with more luminous LEDs at higher power, etc. Something like this http://blog.workingsi.com/2011/06/improved-high-power-ir-led-speedred.html http://blog.workingsi.com/2011/06/improved-high-power-ir-led... http://www.sunflexzone.com/product/stealth-anti-tracking-ir-infrared-license-plate-privacy-frame-alpr-countermeasure http://www.sunflexzone.com/product/stealth-anti-tracking-ir-...

eli 12y ago

There are already a variety of covers, lens, lights, and reflective paint for obscuring your license plate (to avoid speed camera tickets and paying tolls). And of course, doing so is already illegal in many places. See e.g. https://www.phantomplate.com/ https://www.phantomplate.com/

ics 12y ago
Not the best source, but I recall Mythbusters testing some of these things years ago without any success. That site is particularly scammy ($500 to get started as a dealer! "I made over $21k in less than half a day!") but do you know of any that are actually verified to work?
rdtsc 12y ago
That would be a great business to go into if someone is shady. Look, pay us $1000 to hide from police. What are they going to do, call the police next time they are caught running a red light -- "please arrest this company they promised I could run red lights without being caught". It would be kind of like people calling the police complaining their illegal drug stash was stolen.
- Intermernet 12y ago
  Like this? http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/stupid/man-says-wife-stole-his-cocaine-897521 http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/stupid/man-says-wife-...

atwebb 12y ago

Rectangular bumper stickers on either side that resemble a plate? Add some numbers on the side to resemble a plate? There are already a number of solutions for obscuring them from cameras, probably going to be hard to find something legal that works well and can't be coded against.

joezydeco 12y ago

PukingMoney's excellent presentation at DEFCON 21 has some tips on how one can (legally and illegaly) obfuscate your plate. https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-21/dc-21-presentations/Pukingmonkey/DEFCON-21-Pukingmonkey-The-Road-Less-Surreptitiously-Traveled-Updated.pdf https://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-21/dc-21-presentations/... It's a really great primer on a number of issues concerning free travel in the USA and what law enforcement can and cannot do. Also covers other possible ways that the government can track your vehicle (toll transponders, tire sensors, etc). Read the whole thing when you have time.

AngrySkillzz 12y ago
Thanks, this is fascinating and exactly what I was looking for.
FLUX-YOU 12y ago
... Why the fuck is FEMA funding this?!