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The underlying reasons are actually pretty sensible. Signal (as it will be) can't deliver encryption via SMS on iOS due to platform restrictions. Neither can t

The underlying reasons are actually pretty sensible. Signal (as it will be) can't deliver encryption via SMS on iOS due to platform restrictions. Neither can tablets or computers normally send SMS messages. (To say nothing of metadata risks, although TextSecure cannot address that without a decoupling layer, like Tor, and in any case low-latency low-bandwidth mixnet messaging is very hard versus nation-state adversaries with traffic correlation abilities.) It's also clear that voice and video can't be delivered well or at all by SMS/MMS, and that MMS in particular is a huge pain in the arse. However, users who have limited/no data plans are up in arms. Whole bunch of 1-star reviews. Clearly quite a few vocal users (not necessarily users in regions you might expect) liked this feature, used it, seemingly needed it. I know that sometimes when travelling even I'm out of data service, but within SMS service. So it may be that a fork does make semantic sense here. Signal will eventually deliver cross-platform best-in-class secure messaging, group messaging, voice/video/etc - features which cannot be delivered by SMS - and SMSSecure could deliver encrypted SMS messages for users on the Android platform (only).

hobarrera 12y ago
> Neither can tablets or computers normally send SMS messages TextSecure is android-only, so I fail to see how this is an issue. Also, (please, correct me if I'm wrong), they also require that you have an SMS-capable line to use it, so I fail to see how that limitation would matter.
psykovsky 12y ago
If they intend to be a messaging app then they should stop trying to be the default SMS application. They're just another messaging app.
- rand334 12y ago
  I've read almost all of the comments here and I'm so confused... So I'm not going to be able to text my non-TextSecure friends with it anymore? And, if my data connection drops right before I message a TextSecure user, will it get sent plaintext over SMS then?
  - psykovsky 12y ago
    I guess not, at least if you want to keep your SMS's encrypted and use SMSSecure.
- AlyssaRowan 12y ago
  Agreed there: if Signal won't do SMS, they shouldn't be catching SMS intents, or they might get invoked when, for example, there's no data. (Of course, there's scope for disagreement here. SMS and particularly MMS are horrible, but sometimes horrible is all you've got.)
  - sarciszewski 12y ago
    Maybe someone should suggest this to the team? They probably did that from the get go, but now no longer need to.
    - detaro 12y ago
      They said on Github that they are keeping it for a while, so that users still can receive encrypted SMS from users that haven't updated yet.
      - sarciszewski 12y ago
        Okay, cool. Sounds like they're doing the right thing.
      - thatcat 12y ago
        if your friend updates and you don't, the encryption still fails though
      - pR0Ps 12y ago
        Relevant pull request: https://github.com/WhisperSystems/TextSecure/pull/2817 https://github.com/WhisperSystems/TextSecure/pull/2817
      - patcon 12y ago
        I believe the GitHub issue is about catching intents by default. In case people were thinking support for using TS as a SMS app was going away, here's an excerpt from the mailing list that says it's not: >> [whispersystems] Can we remove the SMS feature completely? >> Since the secure SMS option is removed. To reduce the confusion, can we remove insecure SMS option too? > <insert thread of disagreements> > Re: [whispersystems] Can we remove the SMS feature completely? > Everyone can rest assured, we have no plans to do this. I'm pretty committed to an integrated messenger. > - moxie (For some reason this Apr 1 message is not in the mailinglist archives. Not sure what's up with that.)
- patcon 12y ago
  the superclass is "messaging apps". SMS apps vs messaging apps is an result of telco history, and the sooner we stop catering to it, the better
  - marssaxman 12y ago
    The transport makes a big difference. Is it going to stop working as soon as I cross the Canadian border? Is there a per-message fee if I am communicating with someone in another country? Is it going to stop working if my phone is connected to wifi and the router is broken or misconfigured, like it is at the coffee shop down the block from my house? It's one thing to send an email, another thing to send a text, and another thing to use some proprietary messaging protocol, even if all three can be initiated by poking at the same device in slightly different ways, and I want to know which one I'm using so I can pick the right one for the situation.
wtbob 12y ago
> in any case low-latency low-bandwidth mixnet messaging is very hard versus nation-state adversaries with traffic correlation abilities Indeed, The Pynchon Gate[1] paper indicates that intersection attacks can break any mixnet, to include high-latency mixnet. The authors' solution is high-latency, high-bandwidth private information retrieval. Sadly, I can't see a way to make this work efficiently with mobile devices. [1] http://freehaven.net/anonbib/cache/sassaman:wpes2005.pdf http://freehaven.net/anonbib/cache/sassaman:wpes2005.pdf

hobarrera 12y ago

> Neither can tablets or computers normally send SMS messages TextSecure is android-only, so I fail to see how this is an issue. Also, (please, correct me if I'm wrong), they also require that you have an SMS-capable line to use it, so I fail to see how that limitation would matter.

psykovsky 12y ago

If they intend to be a messaging app then they should stop trying to be the default SMS application. They're just another messaging app.

rand334 12y ago
I've read almost all of the comments here and I'm so confused... So I'm not going to be able to text my non-TextSecure friends with it anymore? And, if my data connection drops right before I message a TextSecure user, will it get sent plaintext over SMS then?
- psykovsky 12y ago
  I guess not, at least if you want to keep your SMS's encrypted and use SMSSecure.
AlyssaRowan 12y ago
Agreed there: if Signal won't do SMS, they shouldn't be catching SMS intents, or they might get invoked when, for example, there's no data. (Of course, there's scope for disagreement here. SMS and particularly MMS are horrible, but sometimes horrible is all you've got.)
- sarciszewski 12y ago
  Maybe someone should suggest this to the team? They probably did that from the get go, but now no longer need to.
  - detaro 12y ago
    They said on Github that they are keeping it for a while, so that users still can receive encrypted SMS from users that haven't updated yet.
    - sarciszewski 12y ago
      Okay, cool. Sounds like they're doing the right thing.
    - thatcat 12y ago
      if your friend updates and you don't, the encryption still fails though
    - pR0Ps 12y ago
      Relevant pull request: https://github.com/WhisperSystems/TextSecure/pull/2817 https://github.com/WhisperSystems/TextSecure/pull/2817
    - patcon 12y ago
      I believe the GitHub issue is about catching intents by default. In case people were thinking support for using TS as a SMS app was going away, here's an excerpt from the mailing list that says it's not: >> [whispersystems] Can we remove the SMS feature completely? >> Since the secure SMS option is removed. To reduce the confusion, can we remove insecure SMS option too? > <insert thread of disagreements> > Re: [whispersystems] Can we remove the SMS feature completely? > Everyone can rest assured, we have no plans to do this. I'm pretty committed to an integrated messenger. > - moxie (For some reason this Apr 1 message is not in the mailinglist archives. Not sure what's up with that.)
patcon 12y ago
the superclass is "messaging apps". SMS apps vs messaging apps is an result of telco history, and the sooner we stop catering to it, the better
- marssaxman 12y ago
  The transport makes a big difference. Is it going to stop working as soon as I cross the Canadian border? Is there a per-message fee if I am communicating with someone in another country? Is it going to stop working if my phone is connected to wifi and the router is broken or misconfigured, like it is at the coffee shop down the block from my house? It's one thing to send an email, another thing to send a text, and another thing to use some proprietary messaging protocol, even if all three can be initiated by poking at the same device in slightly different ways, and I want to know which one I'm using so I can pick the right one for the situation.

wtbob 12y ago

> in any case low-latency low-bandwidth mixnet messaging is very hard versus nation-state adversaries with traffic correlation abilities Indeed, The Pynchon Gate[1] paper indicates that intersection attacks can break any mixnet, to include high-latency mixnet. The authors' solution is high-latency, high-bandwidth private information retrieval. Sadly, I can't see a way to make this work efficiently with mobile devices. [1] http://freehaven.net/anonbib/cache/sassaman:wpes2005.pdf http://freehaven.net/anonbib/cache/sassaman:wpes2005.pdf