2 ms·

- Smuggling a heavy bronze statue into a park has bypassed security (yes, parks have security). - Statues have potential but very small likelihood of

by ics 12y ago

- Smuggling a heavy bronze statue into a park has bypassed security (yes, parks have security). - Statues have potential but very small likelihood of being 'malicious'. - Heavy statues have great potential to cause physical harm when not properly built or installed. - This potential for harm is considered minimal to non-existant when the sculpture is commissioned or otherwise created by people with known identities. - When some idiot goes into a park and stabs somebody, it's a police issue. - When a passerby (or some idiot trying to climb it) gets hurt by large, official looking part of the park, it's a city issue (lawsuit). A random rock that's 100# and 8' off the ground is, potentially, a dangerous rock. Your reasoning around my analogy actually illustrates my point fairly well– I'm afraid there isn't much I can do to bridge our disagreement there. Rather than the city of Boston be mocked for their overreaction, I would be much happier if we improved our education in electronics. And other things, because education is the best way we know how to conquer fear in an institutional setting. The idea that this had "ultra-top priority" because of its political nature is, while possible, extremely unlikely. The chance that its political nature was even noticed by the people responsible for removing it are incredibly slim, and if anything I'm surprised at how long it took for it to get a tarp over it. I've seen much quicker removals of defacements in parks across the city, by park officials to plainclothes police. Despite this, the political nature of the message is wholly irrelevant to the actual issue at hand.

Dylan16807 12y ago
It's a couple feet tall and entirely inside the width of a large pillar. It's not going to fall on anyone. Education about electronics is good, but I think fighting back against "fear of blame" is also an important thing. I'm sure someone in the organization knew that blinking lights don't make bombs. Why didn't that message get to management?
- ics 12y ago
  > It's a couple feet tall and entirely inside the width of a large pillar. It's not going to fall on anyone. You're probably right, but that's a very naive way to approach public safety and accountability. If it was still visible right now there would probably be a few people climbing up to it to get a selfie with Snowden. > I'm sure someone in the organization knew that blinking lights don't make bombs. Why didn't that message get to management? That's not how bureaucracies work. (The fear of blame point is very valid though.)
  - rhizome 12y ago
    You are literally inventing problems that either don't exist or have an exceedingly small chance of occurring. Yes, a tornado could sweep through and blow the bust onto a passing baby stroller, but the saying, "don't borrow trouble," comes to mind.
    - ics 12y ago
      I am not inventing them; it is their (Parks and Rec) responsibility to handle contingencies that could cause them or their users trouble. You don't know what chance it [the sculpture causing harm] is because you know absolutely nothing about it except what the article has told you. But they're responsible for it and what it does under "normal conditions". The tornado example is funny because though it would probably be considered an "act of god", maybe then certain things that shouldn't get blown off would. Why? Because it's literally hydrocal glued onto a column... "Don't borrow trouble" would be just as appropriate in response to the more conspiratorial views which I am trying to refute. --- The best possible outcome of this would be that someone at the next commission meeting brings a proposal (or sends one to Laurie Cumbo, or the conservancy) to reinstall the piece. Probably couldn't go in the same location because doing anything with Preservation takes... forever... but I wouldn't be surprised if Fort Greene could muster up support of locals (as long as they don't mind attending plenty of evening meetings).
      - brenschluss 12y ago
        People like you are why NYC is dying. I mean, my god, imagine the dangers inherent in public art! Those venemous subway buskers! The risk inherent in street performances! DIY music venues! Why don't we have all the boring squares move into a city and just smother it with uninventiveness masked as safety concerns? I bet you didn't like the phreaking scene, either, because it went against someone's risk assessment, too dangerous, etc.
        ics 12y ago
        I was born here in the '90s so I'm pretty sure I missed the whole phreaking scene, but your statement is a strawman regardless. I am advocating for this sort of public intervention. I support it 100%. Do I have to repeat that again? 100%. But reality will catch up with your ideals, and it's someone's job to take concerns that aren't yours and apply them in the best interest of the public [as determined by an imperfect, slow, and but at least somewhat democratic process]. Sometimes they fuck it up by overstepping their bounds and acting in ways they are not authorized to. This is not one of those times. This is the domain of Parks and Recreation, and they are doing exactly what they are supposed to do, for completely boring but sensible reasons. I have even more respect for the artists for knowing this in advance and planning for it. It is an act of defiance. Your act of defiance does not trump everyone else's way of life. I look forward to them (hopefully) releasing their 3D model for all of us digital yuppies to go and 3D print on our fancy printers while paying higher and higher rent so we can continue to live and work in our fucking city, you know? I just happen to like our parks, respect the people working in them, and find the whole blame game distasteful. They put up some art, it got taken away, political or not it's absolutely no surprise. In summary: It's their job. You want to give change what they do? Great! We've got a process for that, and it happens every third Monday of the month (Community Board 2 @ Brooklyn Law School). When Parks and Rec starts browsing our emails for dick pics, maybe then people can "take to the streets" with their coup. The Memorial would be a fitting location.

by ics 12y ago

Dylan16807 12y ago

It's a couple feet tall and entirely inside the width of a large pillar. It's not going to fall on anyone. Education about electronics is good, but I think fighting back against "fear of blame" is also an important thing. I'm sure someone in the organization knew that blinking lights don't make bombs. Why didn't that message get to management?

ics 12y ago
> It's a couple feet tall and entirely inside the width of a large pillar. It's not going to fall on anyone. You're probably right, but that's a very naive way to approach public safety and accountability. If it was still visible right now there would probably be a few people climbing up to it to get a selfie with Snowden. > I'm sure someone in the organization knew that blinking lights don't make bombs. Why didn't that message get to management? That's not how bureaucracies work. (The fear of blame point is very valid though.)
- rhizome 12y ago
  You are literally inventing problems that either don't exist or have an exceedingly small chance of occurring. Yes, a tornado could sweep through and blow the bust onto a passing baby stroller, but the saying, "don't borrow trouble," comes to mind.
  - ics 12y ago
    I am not inventing them; it is their (Parks and Rec) responsibility to handle contingencies that could cause them or their users trouble. You don't know what chance it [the sculpture causing harm] is because you know absolutely nothing about it except what the article has told you. But they're responsible for it and what it does under "normal conditions". The tornado example is funny because though it would probably be considered an "act of god", maybe then certain things that shouldn't get blown off would. Why? Because it's literally hydrocal glued onto a column... "Don't borrow trouble" would be just as appropriate in response to the more conspiratorial views which I am trying to refute. --- The best possible outcome of this would be that someone at the next commission meeting brings a proposal (or sends one to Laurie Cumbo, or the conservancy) to reinstall the piece. Probably couldn't go in the same location because doing anything with Preservation takes... forever... but I wouldn't be surprised if Fort Greene could muster up support of locals (as long as they don't mind attending plenty of evening meetings).
    - brenschluss 12y ago
      People like you are why NYC is dying. I mean, my god, imagine the dangers inherent in public art! Those venemous subway buskers! The risk inherent in street performances! DIY music venues! Why don't we have all the boring squares move into a city and just smother it with uninventiveness masked as safety concerns? I bet you didn't like the phreaking scene, either, because it went against someone's risk assessment, too dangerous, etc.
      - ics 12y ago
        I was born here in the '90s so I'm pretty sure I missed the whole phreaking scene, but your statement is a strawman regardless. I am advocating for this sort of public intervention. I support it 100%. Do I have to repeat that again? 100%. But reality will catch up with your ideals, and it's someone's job to take concerns that aren't yours and apply them in the best interest of the public [as determined by an imperfect, slow, and but at least somewhat democratic process]. Sometimes they fuck it up by overstepping their bounds and acting in ways they are not authorized to. This is not one of those times. This is the domain of Parks and Recreation, and they are doing exactly what they are supposed to do, for completely boring but sensible reasons. I have even more respect for the artists for knowing this in advance and planning for it. It is an act of defiance. Your act of defiance does not trump everyone else's way of life. I look forward to them (hopefully) releasing their 3D model for all of us digital yuppies to go and 3D print on our fancy printers while paying higher and higher rent so we can continue to live and work in our fucking city, you know? I just happen to like our parks, respect the people working in them, and find the whole blame game distasteful. They put up some art, it got taken away, political or not it's absolutely no surprise. In summary: It's their job. You want to give change what they do? Great! We've got a process for that, and it happens every third Monday of the month (Community Board 2 @ Brooklyn Law School). When Parks and Rec starts browsing our emails for dick pics, maybe then people can "take to the streets" with their coup. The Memorial would be a fitting location.