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Similarly: "I've never seen a plausible argument supporting what Snowden did that boiled down to more than [my morality is more important than your laws]. At mo

Similarly: "I've never seen a plausible argument supporting what Snowden did that boiled down to more than [my morality is more important than your laws]. At most, you get a side order of [George Orwell] mumble mumble [he wouldn't have been able to accomplish anything if he tried to do it differently] mumble mumble [The government was so evil towards him that he fled to RUSSIA!]". These aren't arguments that people actually make. If they ARE making either claim, you're choosing some poor conversational partners.

Dylan16807 12y ago
Perhaps you could be one of those better conversational partners instead of implying that he's lying? Also I think you have something to learn about human nature if you don't believe people will bluff on a political opinion without being able to give a coherent argument.
- Semiapies 12y ago
  An interesting detail is that while I was complaining about a non-argument, he at least advanced an actual argument while trying to parody it. And you know what? Where "my morality" is our Constitution and the principles of a constrained government that serves (and is accountable to) the people, then yes, that trumps the Hell out of laws designed to allow what's going on and keep it secret from us. Given the context of the original memorial that the bust was added to, I wish I could say I was still surprised at people like cdbajorin.
  - cdbajorin 12y ago
    Out of curiosity, what actual(valid?) argument did I actually produce? The fact that you are somehow extracting an opinion from my statement is fascinating. No where have I stated my beliefs, no where have I implied my beliefs. Your statement is a simple display of black and white thinking: "If you criticize my comment, you disagree with everything I believe". The fact that "people like me" exist in the context of this commentary is probably a good thing. Let me reiterate: My opinions were never stated anywhere in this entire thread. I criticized your train of thought and your straw man argument. Nothing more.
    - Semiapies 12y ago
      Seriously? When you responded with "I've never seen a plausible argument supporting what Snowden did that boiled down to more than [my morality is more important than your laws]", you were trying to mock my complaint. However, while I was complaining about a lack of argument, you were complaining about an actual, very valid argument that I endorsed. Or to put it another way, snarking about people who think morality is more important than law is kinda hilarious when we're talking about a monument to the Revolutionary War. Or much of American history, for that matter.
      - cdbajorin 12y ago
        > you were complaining about an actual, very valid argument that I endorsed Here's a list of people that were morally justified in breaking the law: Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King Jr., Eric Rudolph, Mohamed Atta Some you may agree with, hopefully some you don't. But it's YOUR morality, so I'm sure it's OK.
        Semiapies 12y ago
        Not just my morality, as stated above. But you're clearly not following the discussion, so I'll leave you be.
- cdbajorin 12y ago
  I don't really understand how you read that from my comment. I didn't imply he was lying. I was demonstrating how easy it is to straw man. It's clearly very easy to dismiss opinions you may disagree with by twisting them into something else. "You're stupid because I can mock you" doesn't give any validity to your arguments.
  - Dylan16807 12y ago
    >These aren't arguments that people actually make. That looks like an implication of lying to me. I already explained how it's not a straw man, it's not meant to represent an actual argument.

Dylan16807 12y ago

Perhaps you could be one of those better conversational partners instead of implying that he's lying? Also I think you have something to learn about human nature if you don't believe people will bluff on a political opinion without being able to give a coherent argument.

Semiapies 12y ago
An interesting detail is that while I was complaining about a non-argument, he at least advanced an actual argument while trying to parody it. And you know what? Where "my morality" is our Constitution and the principles of a constrained government that serves (and is accountable to) the people, then yes, that trumps the Hell out of laws designed to allow what's going on and keep it secret from us. Given the context of the original memorial that the bust was added to, I wish I could say I was still surprised at people like cdbajorin.
- cdbajorin 12y ago
  Out of curiosity, what actual(valid?) argument did I actually produce? The fact that you are somehow extracting an opinion from my statement is fascinating. No where have I stated my beliefs, no where have I implied my beliefs. Your statement is a simple display of black and white thinking: "If you criticize my comment, you disagree with everything I believe". The fact that "people like me" exist in the context of this commentary is probably a good thing. Let me reiterate: My opinions were never stated anywhere in this entire thread. I criticized your train of thought and your straw man argument. Nothing more.
  - Semiapies 12y ago
    Seriously? When you responded with "I've never seen a plausible argument supporting what Snowden did that boiled down to more than [my morality is more important than your laws]", you were trying to mock my complaint. However, while I was complaining about a lack of argument, you were complaining about an actual, very valid argument that I endorsed. Or to put it another way, snarking about people who think morality is more important than law is kinda hilarious when we're talking about a monument to the Revolutionary War. Or much of American history, for that matter.
    - cdbajorin 12y ago
      > you were complaining about an actual, very valid argument that I endorsed Here's a list of people that were morally justified in breaking the law: Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King Jr., Eric Rudolph, Mohamed Atta Some you may agree with, hopefully some you don't. But it's YOUR morality, so I'm sure it's OK.
      - Semiapies 12y ago
        Not just my morality, as stated above. But you're clearly not following the discussion, so I'll leave you be.
cdbajorin 12y ago
I don't really understand how you read that from my comment. I didn't imply he was lying. I was demonstrating how easy it is to straw man. It's clearly very easy to dismiss opinions you may disagree with by twisting them into something else. "You're stupid because I can mock you" doesn't give any validity to your arguments.
- Dylan16807 12y ago
  >These aren't arguments that people actually make. That looks like an implication of lying to me. I already explained how it's not a straw man, it's not meant to represent an actual argument.