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This is disgusting. Snowden lost any legitimacy he may have had as a whistle-blower when he started exposing the unquestionably legitimate foreign intelligence

This is disgusting. Snowden lost any legitimacy he may have had as a whistle-blower when he started exposing the unquestionably legitimate foreign intelligence activities and capabilities of the United States. You have to be naive to think the Russians are harboring him without something in exchange: even more information about our foreign intelligence activities. This traitor's bust does not belong among the remains of fallen heroes.

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- adamnemecek 12y ago
  Your opinion is above all misinformed.
  - leswool 12y ago
    Seeking 3D printer blueprints/specs for replication of bust for "artist purposes"... Lev Woolf at gmail
- Phlarp 12y ago
  Sad to see that replying to yourself in order to whine about downvotes (and then deleting it) has made its way to hackernews from reddit.
  - vectorpush 12y ago
    And unique to HN is the constant need to chide reddit in a condescending effort to appear superior, as if to suggest that the quality of discussion on this site is substantially superior to reddit. Unfortunately, short of the front-page subreddits, it's really not much different. Hell, on any given day, the discussions in /r/programming are much more in the spirit of "hacker news" than half of the stuff that gets voted to the top of HN.
majke 12y ago
Sir. Edward does not expose anything. It's the journalists that choose the material. He made it very explicit from the start. > You have to be naive to think the Russians are harboring him Can you please provide a source? The quality of this comment is something I'd expect from a 50 cent army. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_brigades https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_brigades [EDIT] Softened language.
- pnathan 12y ago
  His recent history suggests he's a technically informed contributor. While my initial suspicion was a 50 cent army, it doesn't smell like a purpose-built troll.
- AnkhMorporkian 12y ago
  Some of us truly believe that Snowden went too far. Calling all of us shills is counter-productive, dismissive, and extremely standoffish.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    The NSA went too far by violating the constitutional rights of US citizens, both on US soil and abroad. I'm unaware of how you can go "too far" when directing sunlight on corruption and illegal activities perpetrated by an arm of your own government.
    - AnkhMorporkian 12y ago
      Say that a CIA field agent or team is found doing illegal and unethical things (it's happened before many times,) would it be "too far" to release the entire list of CIA field agents and their covers around the world to two journalists at a foreign newspaper because of that one group of agents? It absolutely would be and would potentially put shitloads of lives at risk. Snowden basically did the same thing with the NSA information. Most of us think he was in the right to expose PRISM and some other programs, but he basically gave Greenwald & Co. unfettered access to a huge swath of the NSA's internal operations. That's too far for me. It's an issue of scope.
adamnemecek 12y ago
You have no clue what you are talking about. a.) It's not him releasing the info anymore. b.) You are just speculating that he's giving any info to Russia.
Phlarp 12y ago
>You have to be naive to think the Russians are harboring him without something in exchange Other than the publicity win of playing host to the biggest thorn in your arch rivals side? If you intend to say that he gave/gives material information directly to FSB, I'll need to see a source.
marssaxman 12y ago
Do you have any evidence for your suppositions, or is that merely cynicism talking?
jnorthrop 12y ago
Please do not downvote marcoperaza's post because you disagree with it. That goes against the spirit and intent of this site. Make your own argument to counter instead.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- hackuser 12y ago
  I downvoted it because of the tone: "disgusting", "you have to be naive", "unquestionably legitimate", etc. The post's grandchild, by the same user, is fine (though not very useful, rehashing old arguments).
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- _broody 12y ago
  I think it's pretty clear the OP is being downvoted for resorting to character assassination (accusing Snowden of selling/giving intelligence secrets to Russia) without any proof of his claims.
- DanBC 12y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 PG said: > I think it's ok to use the up and down arrows to express agreement. Obviously the uparrows aren't only for applauding politeness, so it seems reasonable that the downarrows aren't only for booing rudeness. It's a bit weird to impose your own (admittedly popular) purpose of the vote buttons, claiming that your view is the true spirit and intent of the site, when there's a quote from the guy who set up the site directly contradicting you.
  - yellowapple 12y ago
    I'd agree with that assessment if the downvote button didn't have the direct result of fading the comment into invisibility. Dissenting commentary can still be conducive to an informed discussion and thus worth reading, and the idea that disagreement is meant to be treated as something to be silenced is incredibly disturbing, especially in the context of this post.
pnathan 12y ago
I disagree strongly. I consider Snowden to be a hero - flawed perhaps, and not conforming to a heroic mythos demanding his going to court - but his information exposure was something that was desperately needed in the US.

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[deleted]

adamnemecek 12y ago
Your opinion is above all misinformed.
- leswool 12y ago
  Seeking 3D printer blueprints/specs for replication of bust for "artist purposes"... Lev Woolf at gmail
Phlarp 12y ago
Sad to see that replying to yourself in order to whine about downvotes (and then deleting it) has made its way to hackernews from reddit.
- vectorpush 12y ago
  And unique to HN is the constant need to chide reddit in a condescending effort to appear superior, as if to suggest that the quality of discussion on this site is substantially superior to reddit. Unfortunately, short of the front-page subreddits, it's really not much different. Hell, on any given day, the discussions in /r/programming are much more in the spirit of "hacker news" than half of the stuff that gets voted to the top of HN.

majke 12y ago

Sir. Edward does not expose anything. It's the journalists that choose the material. He made it very explicit from the start. > You have to be naive to think the Russians are harboring him Can you please provide a source? The quality of this comment is something I'd expect from a 50 cent army. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_brigades https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_brigades [EDIT] Softened language.

pnathan 12y ago
His recent history suggests he's a technically informed contributor. While my initial suspicion was a 50 cent army, it doesn't smell like a purpose-built troll.
AnkhMorporkian 12y ago
Some of us truly believe that Snowden went too far. Calling all of us shills is counter-productive, dismissive, and extremely standoffish.
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  The NSA went too far by violating the constitutional rights of US citizens, both on US soil and abroad. I'm unaware of how you can go "too far" when directing sunlight on corruption and illegal activities perpetrated by an arm of your own government.
  - AnkhMorporkian 12y ago
    Say that a CIA field agent or team is found doing illegal and unethical things (it's happened before many times,) would it be "too far" to release the entire list of CIA field agents and their covers around the world to two journalists at a foreign newspaper because of that one group of agents? It absolutely would be and would potentially put shitloads of lives at risk. Snowden basically did the same thing with the NSA information. Most of us think he was in the right to expose PRISM and some other programs, but he basically gave Greenwald & Co. unfettered access to a huge swath of the NSA's internal operations. That's too far for me. It's an issue of scope.

adamnemecek 12y ago

You have no clue what you are talking about. a.) It's not him releasing the info anymore. b.) You are just speculating that he's giving any info to Russia.

Phlarp 12y ago

>You have to be naive to think the Russians are harboring him without something in exchange Other than the publicity win of playing host to the biggest thorn in your arch rivals side? If you intend to say that he gave/gives material information directly to FSB, I'll need to see a source.

marssaxman 12y ago

Do you have any evidence for your suppositions, or is that merely cynicism talking?

jnorthrop 12y ago

Please do not downvote marcoperaza's post because you disagree with it. That goes against the spirit and intent of this site. Make your own argument to counter instead.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
hackuser 12y ago
I downvoted it because of the tone: "disgusting", "you have to be naive", "unquestionably legitimate", etc. The post's grandchild, by the same user, is fine (though not very useful, rehashing old arguments).
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
_broody 12y ago
I think it's pretty clear the OP is being downvoted for resorting to character assassination (accusing Snowden of selling/giving intelligence secrets to Russia) without any proof of his claims.
DanBC 12y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 PG said: > I think it's ok to use the up and down arrows to express agreement. Obviously the uparrows aren't only for applauding politeness, so it seems reasonable that the downarrows aren't only for booing rudeness. It's a bit weird to impose your own (admittedly popular) purpose of the vote buttons, claiming that your view is the true spirit and intent of the site, when there's a quote from the guy who set up the site directly contradicting you.
- yellowapple 12y ago
  I'd agree with that assessment if the downvote button didn't have the direct result of fading the comment into invisibility. Dissenting commentary can still be conducive to an informed discussion and thus worth reading, and the idea that disagreement is meant to be treated as something to be silenced is incredibly disturbing, especially in the context of this post.

pnathan 12y ago

I disagree strongly. I consider Snowden to be a hero - flawed perhaps, and not conforming to a heroic mythos demanding his going to court - but his information exposure was something that was desperately needed in the US.