8 ms·

a single room that fits thousands of people. What a nightmare. These "glass palace" offices may work for bankers or marketing teams. For programmers you could

by moe 12y ago

a single room that fits thousands of people. What a nightmare. These "glass palace" offices may work for bankers or marketing teams. For programmers you could just as well plant their desks into the middle of a mall.

weixiyen 12y ago
works for sweatshops too. j/k!
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  I would love to work in a converted sweatshop, I think these are considered prime offices spaces in the NYC garment district.
thearn4 12y ago
Everything comes around full circle eventually. http://afflictor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/openoffice.jpg http://afflictor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/openoffice.j... http://www.basexblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/office-workers-1950s.jpg http://www.basexblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/office-w...
fsk 12y ago
The offensive part is the people who say that open offices are MORE EFFICIENT than a traditional office. I have a hard time believing that one. Given how high programmer salaries are, the productivity loss due to open offices is almost definitely more than the office space savings. It seems like an introvert/extrovert thing. The introverts would prefer a quiet working space (and they're usually the best workers), but extroverts want the easy communication (and they're usually the bosses). Even small team rooms of 4-10 people get annoying when the other person has a smelly meal, has a cold, prefers a different temperature, or listens to music on his headphones so loudly I can hear it. One of my favorite jokes is when a job ad says "We provide headphones so you can concentrate!" as a serious job perk. How about a quiet space?
- pyre 12y ago
  > The offensive part is the people who say that open offices are MORE EFFICIENT than a traditional office. To be fair, I don't think everyone that uses the term "open office" is thinking "auditorium with 1000+ people." Attempting to extrapolate anything conclusions taken from open office environments of 4-10 people out to 1000+ people seems insane.
  - Igglyboo 12y ago
    I work in an open office space that usually has around 6 people but never more than 10 and I like it a lot. 1000 sounds like a nightmare.
  - sukilot 12y ago
    4-10 is team room, please don't confuse the conversation by calling it an open office. Don't be overly literal in mincing, let words have useful meaning.
    - pyre 12y ago
      Even if this is the case, I don't think anyone has ever stated that an auditorium of 1000+ people is an "open office" either.
- option 12y ago
  Just have some respect for yourself - do not accept job offer if you don't get an office (unless it is a very early stage startup)
  - fsk 12y ago
    The problem is that cuts out 99%+ of all employers. When was the last time you interviewed someplace that gave all programmers their own office?
    - hueving 12y ago
      Plenty of places give programmers their own office. The trick is finding one that gives each programmer a separate office.
PebblesHD 12y ago
This nightmare is so common that I'm worried people will never move away from it. The whole 'Agile everything' mentality has totally stuffed normal productivity where I work, and the entire programming and innovation floor is open plan with no set desks, meaning I have to pack up everything at the end of the day and put it all back at the start of the next. Give me a quiet office where I can leave my notes and stuff and let me work...
pbreit 12y ago
I dislike open offices but when it's this big it actually can work because all the noise just becomes white. In a small open office, you pretty much have to be silent but in a big one, you can speak freely. We (PayPal) had a big open office like this in Omaha and it actually kind of works better than some might think.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
woah 12y ago
I've worked in open plan offices my entire career. I actually don't even like having the same desk every day. If I really want some isolation I work from home. No big deal. I'd rather take the extra money or other office perks over the boring cubicle you all seem to want.
- disbelief 12y ago
  There are more options than just "Entirely Open Concept" or "Individual Cubicles"! There can be a mix of the two, or other things. My ideal scenario would be majority open areas, but with plenty of more secluded rooms/areas where people can work in a quiet, distraction-free atmosphere if they choose. You don't need to have a dedicated desk, and can roam freely between the two.
- vonmoltke 12y ago
  > I actually don't even like having the same desk every day. I think the differences many of these arguments partially boil down to the differences in the nature of various lines of business. I have had four positions at two companies and have never had a situation where changing desks every day was feasible. Work from home has never been an option for me. Since I like the type of work I do, I want to do it in a real office (something I have yet to do).
- teacup50 12y ago
  So you work on a laptop? Not only do studies show that open offices decrease productivity, they ALSO show that less screen real-estate decreases productivity.
- PebblesHD 12y ago
  The problem is that in an office such as mine, we don't get a constant work space and don't have the option of working from home. Not well thought out from a management point of view.
slyall 12y ago
This room looks huge but the facebook one must be several times the size.. http://www.radialsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/UBS-trading-floor.jpg http://www.radialsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/UBS-tr...
- Redoubts 12y ago
  That looks horrifying. What are the benefits of such a layout?
  - bladecatcher 12y ago
    I am a quant in a bank and I work in similar massive open spaces. Being in such noisy places has actually helped me find my focus zone! No matter how noisy it gets, I seem to be able to find a calm place within my head
  - mrweasel 12y ago
    It's really cheap to build and run.
- underwater 12y ago
  Facebook's new office is much bigger than that. However the space is broken up by meeting rooms, walls, stairwells, etc. From what I've seen the noise and distractions are probably better than many other open plan office I've worked in.
- bluthru 12y ago
  That one has some great natural lighting though.
danjayh 12y ago
My thought when I read that line was "sounds like hell". Also, I bet Zuck has an office to call his own.
- guptaneil 12y ago
  Actually, last time I visited Facebook HQ, Zuck's desk was in the open space just like everybody else. I was quite surprised.
  - kamaal 12y ago
    I don't know about Mark Zuckerberg, In general these show and tell offices are generally a sham. Even if they have a desk in the open work space I'm pretty darn sure its there just as a small time gossip catch up area with other colleagues. Their actual office work, meetings, decision making and nearly everything else will be happening from a 'meeting room'. So in essence they will have a private office in which they will spend most of their time in.
    - nilkn 12y ago
      A great quote from Joel Spolsky: > There’s a strong culture in Silicon Valley that requires you to jam a lot of programmers into a big open space, despite a preponderance of evidence that private offices are far more productive, something which I’ve covered repeatedly on this site. I’m not really getting through to people, I don’t think, because programmers kind of like being social, even if it means they are unproductive, so it’s an uphill battle. I’ve even heard programmers say things like, “Yeah, we all work in cubicles, but everyone works in a cubicle—up to and including the CEO!” “The CEO? Does the CEO really work in a cubicle?” “Well, he has a cubicle, but actually now that you mention it there’s this one conference room that he goes to for all his important meetings…” Mmmm hmmm. A fairly common Silicon Valley phenomenon is the CEO who makes a big show of working from a cubicle just like the hoi polloi, although somehow there’s this one conference room that he tends to make his own (“Only when there’s something private to be discussed,” he’ll claim, but half the time when you walk by that conference room there’s your CEO, all by himself, talking on the phone to his golf buddy, with his Cole Haans up on the conference table). (From http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FieldGuidetoDevelopers.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FieldGuidetoDeveloper...)
nixy 12y ago
My boss asked me for input when scouting for a new office a while back. I asked for private offices, because for programmers working in an open space is like writing a math exam at a busy lunch restaurant. She said she understood. And then she signed us all up for an open space office anyway.

by moe 12y ago

weixiyen 12y ago

works for sweatshops too. j/k!

seanmcdirmid 12y ago
I would love to work in a converted sweatshop, I think these are considered prime offices spaces in the NYC garment district.

thearn4 12y ago

Everything comes around full circle eventually. http://afflictor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/openoffice.jpg http://afflictor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/openoffice.j... http://www.basexblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/office-workers-1950s.jpg http://www.basexblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/office-w...

fsk 12y ago

The offensive part is the people who say that open offices are MORE EFFICIENT than a traditional office. I have a hard time believing that one. Given how high programmer salaries are, the productivity loss due to open offices is almost definitely more than the office space savings. It seems like an introvert/extrovert thing. The introverts would prefer a quiet working space (and they're usually the best workers), but extroverts want the easy communication (and they're usually the bosses). Even small team rooms of 4-10 people get annoying when the other person has a smelly meal, has a cold, prefers a different temperature, or listens to music on his headphones so loudly I can hear it. One of my favorite jokes is when a job ad says "We provide headphones so you can concentrate!" as a serious job perk. How about a quiet space?

pyre 12y ago
> The offensive part is the people who say that open offices are MORE EFFICIENT than a traditional office. To be fair, I don't think everyone that uses the term "open office" is thinking "auditorium with 1000+ people." Attempting to extrapolate anything conclusions taken from open office environments of 4-10 people out to 1000+ people seems insane.
- Igglyboo 12y ago
  I work in an open office space that usually has around 6 people but never more than 10 and I like it a lot. 1000 sounds like a nightmare.
- sukilot 12y ago
  4-10 is team room, please don't confuse the conversation by calling it an open office. Don't be overly literal in mincing, let words have useful meaning.
  - pyre 12y ago
    Even if this is the case, I don't think anyone has ever stated that an auditorium of 1000+ people is an "open office" either.
option 12y ago
Just have some respect for yourself - do not accept job offer if you don't get an office (unless it is a very early stage startup)
- fsk 12y ago
  The problem is that cuts out 99%+ of all employers. When was the last time you interviewed someplace that gave all programmers their own office?
  - hueving 12y ago
    Plenty of places give programmers their own office. The trick is finding one that gives each programmer a separate office.

PebblesHD 12y ago

This nightmare is so common that I'm worried people will never move away from it. The whole 'Agile everything' mentality has totally stuffed normal productivity where I work, and the entire programming and innovation floor is open plan with no set desks, meaning I have to pack up everything at the end of the day and put it all back at the start of the next. Give me a quiet office where I can leave my notes and stuff and let me work...

pbreit 12y ago

I dislike open offices but when it's this big it actually can work because all the noise just becomes white. In a small open office, you pretty much have to be silent but in a big one, you can speak freely. We (PayPal) had a big open office like this in Omaha and it actually kind of works better than some might think.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

woah 12y ago

I've worked in open plan offices my entire career. I actually don't even like having the same desk every day. If I really want some isolation I work from home. No big deal. I'd rather take the extra money or other office perks over the boring cubicle you all seem to want.

disbelief 12y ago
There are more options than just "Entirely Open Concept" or "Individual Cubicles"! There can be a mix of the two, or other things. My ideal scenario would be majority open areas, but with plenty of more secluded rooms/areas where people can work in a quiet, distraction-free atmosphere if they choose. You don't need to have a dedicated desk, and can roam freely between the two.
vonmoltke 12y ago
> I actually don't even like having the same desk every day. I think the differences many of these arguments partially boil down to the differences in the nature of various lines of business. I have had four positions at two companies and have never had a situation where changing desks every day was feasible. Work from home has never been an option for me. Since I like the type of work I do, I want to do it in a real office (something I have yet to do).
teacup50 12y ago
So you work on a laptop? Not only do studies show that open offices decrease productivity, they ALSO show that less screen real-estate decreases productivity.
PebblesHD 12y ago
The problem is that in an office such as mine, we don't get a constant work space and don't have the option of working from home. Not well thought out from a management point of view.

slyall 12y ago

This room looks huge but the facebook one must be several times the size.. http://www.radialsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/UBS-trading-floor.jpg http://www.radialsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/UBS-tr...

Redoubts 12y ago
That looks horrifying. What are the benefits of such a layout?
- bladecatcher 12y ago
  I am a quant in a bank and I work in similar massive open spaces. Being in such noisy places has actually helped me find my focus zone! No matter how noisy it gets, I seem to be able to find a calm place within my head
- mrweasel 12y ago
  It's really cheap to build and run.
underwater 12y ago
Facebook's new office is much bigger than that. However the space is broken up by meeting rooms, walls, stairwells, etc. From what I've seen the noise and distractions are probably better than many other open plan office I've worked in.
bluthru 12y ago
That one has some great natural lighting though.

danjayh 12y ago

My thought when I read that line was "sounds like hell". Also, I bet Zuck has an office to call his own.

guptaneil 12y ago
Actually, last time I visited Facebook HQ, Zuck's desk was in the open space just like everybody else. I was quite surprised.
- kamaal 12y ago
  I don't know about Mark Zuckerberg, In general these show and tell offices are generally a sham. Even if they have a desk in the open work space I'm pretty darn sure its there just as a small time gossip catch up area with other colleagues. Their actual office work, meetings, decision making and nearly everything else will be happening from a 'meeting room'. So in essence they will have a private office in which they will spend most of their time in.
  - nilkn 12y ago
    A great quote from Joel Spolsky: > There’s a strong culture in Silicon Valley that requires you to jam a lot of programmers into a big open space, despite a preponderance of evidence that private offices are far more productive, something which I’ve covered repeatedly on this site. I’m not really getting through to people, I don’t think, because programmers kind of like being social, even if it means they are unproductive, so it’s an uphill battle. I’ve even heard programmers say things like, “Yeah, we all work in cubicles, but everyone works in a cubicle—up to and including the CEO!” “The CEO? Does the CEO really work in a cubicle?” “Well, he has a cubicle, but actually now that you mention it there’s this one conference room that he goes to for all his important meetings…” Mmmm hmmm. A fairly common Silicon Valley phenomenon is the CEO who makes a big show of working from a cubicle just like the hoi polloi, although somehow there’s this one conference room that he tends to make his own (“Only when there’s something private to be discussed,” he’ll claim, but half the time when you walk by that conference room there’s your CEO, all by himself, talking on the phone to his golf buddy, with his Cole Haans up on the conference table). (From http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FieldGuidetoDevelopers.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/FieldGuidetoDeveloper...)

nixy 12y ago

My boss asked me for input when scouting for a new office a while back. I asked for private offices, because for programmers working in an open space is like writing a math exam at a busy lunch restaurant. She said she understood. And then she signed us all up for an open space office anyway.