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>> Researchers say they’re intrigued that millennials’ aversion to driving and owning a car has endured even since the recession ended. This is a direct respon

>> Researchers say they’re intrigued that millennials’ aversion to driving and owning a car has endured even since the recession ended. This is a direct response to the above quote. Every time I read one of these articles I'm surprised that the rise of smart phones isn't cited as a contributor to this change of preference. Every minute I'm driving is a minute that I am disconnected from the internet. Constant connection is arguably a bad thing, but I'm pretty much addicted, and I would bet that everyone else is too. Of course there are many other contributing factors to my preference for mass transit over driving. My perceptions that inform my preference (whether true or not): * Cars are simply not safe. It isn't just that I'm worried about getting hurt in an accident. I don't want to be responsible for harming someone else. * Many forms of media have constantly reminded me as I grow up that cars are bad for the environment. * Cars are incredibly expensive. If I never buy another car, I could easily afford a small house with the money I will save over my lifetime. In addition to the car, I have to pay for gas, insurance, and maintenance. However, in the end, I still have a car. I have a car because my city's public transit is still slow and unreliable. It is getting better. And I use it quite a lot to get to things in the interior of the city. My car gets me to the events I go to on the edge of town, and it covers me when I need to get somewhere in the middle of the night, when the bus isn't running. I'm not sure how similar I am to other millenials, but these are the things I think about when I see a quote like that.

_delirium 12y ago
> Cars are simply not safe. In addition to accident-type safety issues, I also find driving a bit worrying from the perspective of what you might call "legal safety". The chances of ending up in a negative interaction with the police seem much higher when you drive than when you travel via other modalities, because a traffic stop has a pretty low bar of evidence, and is often used as a lead-in to various other searches/etc. I probably am realistically not at that much risk (being a white middle-class person usually traveling in middle-class areas), but I still feel less exposed to the police when not driving.
- FD3SA 12y ago
  White, black or otherwise, you are quite susceptible to the tyranny of the police state [1]. The young man in that link was murdered in cold blood because he pissed off a cop. It was premeditated. The cop is still working actively on the force with zero repercussions. Cops have a license to kill with impunity. The race hysteria is used, ironically, to maintain the status quo via the clever bit of propaganda that "white" people are not at risk. Statistically, "whites" are less at risk, but only because they happen to be the richest demographic. As the article I've linked shows, the cops go after the weak and helpless, regardless of race or creed [2]. 1. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/08/what-i-did-after-police-killed-my-son-110038.html#.VRmdAfnF8gQ http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/08/what-i-did-af... 2. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780519904 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014241278873238488045786080...
  - ams6110 12y ago
    I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous on its face. If you are pulled over for a traffic violation, 99% of the time you get a ticket or a warning and are on your way. You can't cherry pick two extreme incidents and pretend that this is the norm.
    - rayiner 12y ago
      The only time I ever interact with someone who has a gun is if I get pulled over while driving. Sure the risk is low, but the threat exists on every interaction, and is a big incentive for me to find ways to avoid driving.
      - Stefan-H 12y ago
        If you live in a state that has concealed-carry laws, then you are likely wrong about your comment that "the only time" you interact with people with guns.
        _delirium 12y ago
cperciva 12y ago
Every time I read one of these articles I'm surprised that the rise of smart phones isn't cited as a contributor to this change of preference. Every minute I'm driving is a minute that I am disconnected from the internet. Constant connection is arguably a bad thing, but I'm pretty much addicted, and I would bet that everyone else is too. I think the best summary I've heard of this was on CBC Radio (probably on Spark, but I'm not sure): "For older generations, mobile phones are distractions from driving. For millenials, driving is a distraction from their mobile phones."
jsolson 12y ago
I was born in 1983, so that puts me at the leading edge of what I think most people classify as millennials, but honestly what you're saying doesn't resonate strongly with me. I can (and have recently) lived without a car, but not for any of the reasons you cite. Instead it comes down to (a) parking is a pain in the ass in downtown Seattle and (b) if I drive somewhere, I avoid drinking while I'm there, so driving is a no-go for shows, parties, or even most evenings out with friends. Both of these are solved pretty thoroughly by Uber and (rarely) public transit. I don't tend to use my phone when I'm moving between places unless I'm running late or someone pings me; I'm much more likely to sit back and just watch the world go by. That said, I do own a car primarily for my daily commute and weekend outings up to the mountains. In terms of safety, environmental friendliness, or cost effectiveness, none of these factored at all into the decision for me. That said, I drive a Tesla, so it's chock full of modern safety features (protecting me; for pedestrians it's a silent rolling death machine with 691 horsepower), and I could argue that it's less environmentally unfriendly than other cars, but I bought it because it looked fun, not for either of those reasons :)
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  75 here. The first thing I did when moving to the U district at UW was get rid of my car, it is just annoying to have one there. I've had a car since, but prefered biking or public transit, and now I'm completely carless in Beijing where parking is sh*t and taxis are ubiquitous. Oddly enough, all my chinese colleagues have cars anyways since it is a precondition (along with owning an apartment) to getting married....
  - restalis 12y ago
    "I'm completely carless in Beijing where ... taxis are ubiquitous." I don't know about you, but I had a bad experience when I've needed to use a taxi in Beijing! Taxis are ubiquitous, yes, but they won't take you if your destination is not far enough for them, and most of them don't use taxing machines (because you know, there are plenty of tourists around), and prefer just to wait for someone willing to pay ten times the rate that they actually should bill. And there's more - you can't call a taxi in order to come to pick you up even from hotels (which is ridiculous), and most of the places where you might have some certainty that you'll land in a taxi are taxi-stops (often posted near bus-stops), and you also may have to stay in line for one!
danudey 12y ago
I prefer transit to driving because owning a car is vastly more expensive I prefer transit to driving because I prefer walkable communities that I can connect to, rather than places full of parkades and parking meters. I prefer transit to driving because I understand that a bus can take a hundred cars off the road, which results in smoother traffic and more efficient travel. I prefer transit to driving because it gives me the opportunity to read a book or have a conversation with my travelling companions without one of us having to focus on the road. From my perspective, the question isn't 'why do you not own a car?' but 'why do you own a car?' For me and the people I know, who fall everywhere from '20 hours at minimum wage' to 'cashed in on IPO', the default is not to own a car, or to own it and rarely use it. The extra time I would save driving halfway to work would be spent stuck in traffic for the other half. The cost of a lease + insurance is many times more than a transit pass, plus fuel, parking, maintenance, etc. It's just not practical. Whenever I read someone talking about how 'maybe this new thing is why transit', I look around at Vancouver, which has had amazing transit for a long time, and think 'Why would you not?'
eqdw 12y ago
Every time I see one of these articles, I get confused. I have to wonder what mysterious world they live in. There are many reasons I don't use a car (I own one; I rarely use it). They're all touched on in here. But beyond a shadow of a doubt, the number one reason: fuck. traffic. FUUUUUUUUCK. Traffic. Traffic infuriates me. It's filled with people who drive unsafely. It's filled with people who drive too fast. It's filled with people who drive too slow. It's filled with people who don't understand left hand vs right hand lanes. It's filled with people who can't read street signs or don't know where they're going. It's filled with pedestrians who think they can dart out between parked cars whenever they feel like it. It's filled with cyclists who ride too aggressively. And, most importantly, it's filled with a billion other cars. I went on a day trip to Berkeley -> Monterey last Saturday. Google maps said "116 miles, 2 hrs 10 minutes". Door to door it was 4 hours 15 minutes. An average speed of 25 mph. On a fucking freeway rated 70. This is insanity. Even ignoring the fury, how does anyone plan their life when traffic can swing so wildly. How does anyone get to work on time and not get fired when LOL TRAFFIC YOU'RE NOW AN HOUR LATE. Public transit might be dirty and smelly and crowded and out of the way. But I also know that, pending someone suicidal, I will always get to work at the same time. Is traffic that much different everywhere else in the country?
- hyperbovine 12y ago
  Corollary: fuck parking. It's not as bad in the East Bay, but I've easily spent one minute trolling around in the city searching for parking for every two spent stuck on the 880.
- omni 12y ago
  I'd imagine traffic variation increases drastically with higher population densities. It's really not much of a problem in rural areas or smaller cities. Source: Grew up in fly-over country
- ggchappell 12y ago
  > Every time I see one of these articles, I get confused. I have to wonder what mysterious world they live in. I think part of the problem is that the questions they ask ("Why don't millenials want cars?") come with an unstated context: millenials' parents and grandparents did want cars. The question is not so much why millenials behave as they do; it is why different generations have behaved so differently. Saying, "Because we're sensible, and our parents were idiots," isn't really a good enough explanation. So the questions keep being asked.
lambdasquirrel 12y ago
Most of the millenials I'm friends with try to not own a car themselves. The whole leaning on the friend with a car thing seems to be enduring past college for this generation. I imagine this will work pretty well for most people until they have a kid. Not sure where it'll go then. Car-sharing isn't going to work well, in this scenario, because there'll be a bum-rush for the car-share pool at the same times in the morning and afternoon. Maybe we'll have to go back to using school busses? -gasp- ;)
- restalis 12y ago
  I guess the car-sharing folks will choose the same kindergartens/schools and band together like they used to.

_delirium 12y ago

> Cars are simply not safe. In addition to accident-type safety issues, I also find driving a bit worrying from the perspective of what you might call "legal safety". The chances of ending up in a negative interaction with the police seem much higher when you drive than when you travel via other modalities, because a traffic stop has a pretty low bar of evidence, and is often used as a lead-in to various other searches/etc. I probably am realistically not at that much risk (being a white middle-class person usually traveling in middle-class areas), but I still feel less exposed to the police when not driving.

FD3SA 12y ago
White, black or otherwise, you are quite susceptible to the tyranny of the police state [1]. The young man in that link was murdered in cold blood because he pissed off a cop. It was premeditated. The cop is still working actively on the force with zero repercussions. Cops have a license to kill with impunity. The race hysteria is used, ironically, to maintain the status quo via the clever bit of propaganda that "white" people are not at risk. Statistically, "whites" are less at risk, but only because they happen to be the richest demographic. As the article I've linked shows, the cops go after the weak and helpless, regardless of race or creed [2]. 1. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/08/what-i-did-after-police-killed-my-son-110038.html#.VRmdAfnF8gQ http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/08/what-i-did-af... 2. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780519904 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014241278873238488045786080...
- ams6110 12y ago
  I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous on its face. If you are pulled over for a traffic violation, 99% of the time you get a ticket or a warning and are on your way. You can't cherry pick two extreme incidents and pretend that this is the norm.
  - rayiner 12y ago
    The only time I ever interact with someone who has a gun is if I get pulled over while driving. Sure the risk is low, but the threat exists on every interaction, and is a big incentive for me to find ways to avoid driving.
    - Stefan-H 12y ago
      If you live in a state that has concealed-carry laws, then you are likely wrong about your comment that "the only time" you interact with people with guns.
      - _delirium 12y ago

cperciva 12y ago

Every time I read one of these articles I'm surprised that the rise of smart phones isn't cited as a contributor to this change of preference. Every minute I'm driving is a minute that I am disconnected from the internet. Constant connection is arguably a bad thing, but I'm pretty much addicted, and I would bet that everyone else is too. I think the best summary I've heard of this was on CBC Radio (probably on Spark, but I'm not sure): "For older generations, mobile phones are distractions from driving. For millenials, driving is a distraction from their mobile phones."

jsolson 12y ago

I was born in 1983, so that puts me at the leading edge of what I think most people classify as millennials, but honestly what you're saying doesn't resonate strongly with me. I can (and have recently) lived without a car, but not for any of the reasons you cite. Instead it comes down to (a) parking is a pain in the ass in downtown Seattle and (b) if I drive somewhere, I avoid drinking while I'm there, so driving is a no-go for shows, parties, or even most evenings out with friends. Both of these are solved pretty thoroughly by Uber and (rarely) public transit. I don't tend to use my phone when I'm moving between places unless I'm running late or someone pings me; I'm much more likely to sit back and just watch the world go by. That said, I do own a car primarily for my daily commute and weekend outings up to the mountains. In terms of safety, environmental friendliness, or cost effectiveness, none of these factored at all into the decision for me. That said, I drive a Tesla, so it's chock full of modern safety features (protecting me; for pedestrians it's a silent rolling death machine with 691 horsepower), and I could argue that it's less environmentally unfriendly than other cars, but I bought it because it looked fun, not for either of those reasons :)

seanmcdirmid 12y ago
75 here. The first thing I did when moving to the U district at UW was get rid of my car, it is just annoying to have one there. I've had a car since, but prefered biking or public transit, and now I'm completely carless in Beijing where parking is sh*t and taxis are ubiquitous. Oddly enough, all my chinese colleagues have cars anyways since it is a precondition (along with owning an apartment) to getting married....
- restalis 12y ago
  "I'm completely carless in Beijing where ... taxis are ubiquitous." I don't know about you, but I had a bad experience when I've needed to use a taxi in Beijing! Taxis are ubiquitous, yes, but they won't take you if your destination is not far enough for them, and most of them don't use taxing machines (because you know, there are plenty of tourists around), and prefer just to wait for someone willing to pay ten times the rate that they actually should bill. And there's more - you can't call a taxi in order to come to pick you up even from hotels (which is ridiculous), and most of the places where you might have some certainty that you'll land in a taxi are taxi-stops (often posted near bus-stops), and you also may have to stay in line for one!

danudey 12y ago

I prefer transit to driving because owning a car is vastly more expensive I prefer transit to driving because I prefer walkable communities that I can connect to, rather than places full of parkades and parking meters. I prefer transit to driving because I understand that a bus can take a hundred cars off the road, which results in smoother traffic and more efficient travel. I prefer transit to driving because it gives me the opportunity to read a book or have a conversation with my travelling companions without one of us having to focus on the road. From my perspective, the question isn't 'why do you not own a car?' but 'why do you own a car?' For me and the people I know, who fall everywhere from '20 hours at minimum wage' to 'cashed in on IPO', the default is not to own a car, or to own it and rarely use it. The extra time I would save driving halfway to work would be spent stuck in traffic for the other half. The cost of a lease + insurance is many times more than a transit pass, plus fuel, parking, maintenance, etc. It's just not practical. Whenever I read someone talking about how 'maybe this new thing is why transit', I look around at Vancouver, which has had amazing transit for a long time, and think 'Why would you not?'

eqdw 12y ago

Every time I see one of these articles, I get confused. I have to wonder what mysterious world they live in. There are many reasons I don't use a car (I own one; I rarely use it). They're all touched on in here. But beyond a shadow of a doubt, the number one reason: fuck. traffic. FUUUUUUUUCK. Traffic. Traffic infuriates me. It's filled with people who drive unsafely. It's filled with people who drive too fast. It's filled with people who drive too slow. It's filled with people who don't understand left hand vs right hand lanes. It's filled with people who can't read street signs or don't know where they're going. It's filled with pedestrians who think they can dart out between parked cars whenever they feel like it. It's filled with cyclists who ride too aggressively. And, most importantly, it's filled with a billion other cars. I went on a day trip to Berkeley -> Monterey last Saturday. Google maps said "116 miles, 2 hrs 10 minutes". Door to door it was 4 hours 15 minutes. An average speed of 25 mph. On a fucking freeway rated 70. This is insanity. Even ignoring the fury, how does anyone plan their life when traffic can swing so wildly. How does anyone get to work on time and not get fired when LOL TRAFFIC YOU'RE NOW AN HOUR LATE. Public transit might be dirty and smelly and crowded and out of the way. But I also know that, pending someone suicidal, I will always get to work at the same time. Is traffic that much different everywhere else in the country?

hyperbovine 12y ago
Corollary: fuck parking. It's not as bad in the East Bay, but I've easily spent one minute trolling around in the city searching for parking for every two spent stuck on the 880.
omni 12y ago
I'd imagine traffic variation increases drastically with higher population densities. It's really not much of a problem in rural areas or smaller cities. Source: Grew up in fly-over country
ggchappell 12y ago
> Every time I see one of these articles, I get confused. I have to wonder what mysterious world they live in. I think part of the problem is that the questions they ask ("Why don't millenials want cars?") come with an unstated context: millenials' parents and grandparents did want cars. The question is not so much why millenials behave as they do; it is why different generations have behaved so differently. Saying, "Because we're sensible, and our parents were idiots," isn't really a good enough explanation. So the questions keep being asked.

lambdasquirrel 12y ago

Most of the millenials I'm friends with try to not own a car themselves. The whole leaning on the friend with a car thing seems to be enduring past college for this generation. I imagine this will work pretty well for most people until they have a kid. Not sure where it'll go then. Car-sharing isn't going to work well, in this scenario, because there'll be a bum-rush for the car-share pool at the same times in the morning and afternoon. Maybe we'll have to go back to using school busses? -gasp- ;)

restalis 12y ago
I guess the car-sharing folks will choose the same kindergartens/schools and band together like they used to.