6 ms·

The Mercedes Robo-Car That Made Me Want to Stop Driving

33 points by carlchenet 12y ago

onion2k 12y ago
One of the things we can take from this article is that once autonomous cars are ubiquitous, you won't be able to save time when you're running late by driving dangerously. Better start learning some time management skills. And, obviously, if you have good time management skills, you wouldn't need to drive dangerously in the first place.
- mwadams 12y ago
  Hopefully, a key benefit of autonomous cars is that they optimize speed to minimize jams and improve overall traffic flow. https://keshavsaharia.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/traffic-optimization-system.pdf https://keshavsaharia.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/traffic-op... Things like junctions/intersections would be much better managed (we might even be able to make them free-flowing on roads where non-autonomous vehicles were banned).
  - prawn 12y ago
    Like paths of ants crossing over, essentially. I find it a bit amusing that we're having to invent some incredible technologies to overcome our sense of self and resulting selfishness to act like the cooperative insects we often step on without noticing.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - onion2k 12y ago
    Assume that you're travelling 100 miles. The first 4 miles are in town, with lots of crossings, lights, etc. The middle 92 miles are on highways with a few turn offs. The final 4 miles are back in town with lights and crossings again. let's assume UK speed limits for everything (30mph in town, 70mph on highways). We'll ignore acceleration. In an autonomous car you can do the speed limit for the entire journey. That's 8 miles at 30mph and 92 miles at 70mph. The journey takes you 95 minutes. In the human-driven car you're slowed to an average of 20mph in town, but on the highway you travel at 85mph because that's what everyone else does. The journey takes you 89 minutes. Obviously the 95 minutes in the autonomous car can be a productive 95 minutes whereas driving yourself you can't do much else for those 89 minutes, which is a huge difference, but until all the cars are autonomous (or there are superfast autonomous lanes at least) then it's probably going to be quicker to drive yourself because to a human a speed limit is a guideline rather than a rule.
    - mwadams 12y ago
      Why would the speed limit on the highway be 70mph in a world of autonomous vehicles? Research indicates that a raise in the limit to 80 or 85 mph would be perfectly safe - the only reason for a 70 mph limit is to cope with heavy traffic. http://www.iam.org.uk/media-and-research/policy/our-policies/motorway-speed-limit http://www.iam.org.uk/media-and-research/policy/our-policies...
tajen 12y ago
Funny how those kinds of previews of the future always include luxury perks (in the present case they highlight the 4K display; for flights in the 60 they highlighted luxury meals) when the reality is obviously pragmatic. More seriously, I wonder how automated cars deals with our road traditions. In France, if you leave the officially required distance with the front car on the highway, another car will insert in between. Then you'll have to slow down, and another car will insert, and so on. Cars can't be programmed to perform something illegal, so I guess they don't deal with "competitive situations" efficiently.
- camhenlin 12y ago
  Yeah -- and that's a good point. I am also interested in seeing if we're going to see a bunch of self driving cars running around at exactly the speed limit, like grandma out on a Sunday drive. And how many drivers is that going to anger?
  - ryan-allen 12y ago
    Depends on where you live and what the local laws are. Where I live (Melbourne, Victoria) most people drive _under_ the speed limit on the highway I take to work each day. Our local police fine us for doing 2-3km over the limit, and the fines are steep. Most of us here wouldn't notice cars driving at the speed limit.
    - lqdc13 12y ago
      It's not the local laws, but the enforcement of such laws though.
      - ryan-allen 12y ago
        And as I said, our laws are enforced to a rather strict degree.
  - mattlutze 12y ago
    Consider that the source of frustration in traffic is the condition that you, the driver, are stuck behind the wheel, having to focus on creeping along. If you didn't have to pay attention, really, to your surroundings and could multitask your trip away, I suppose a driver would be less concerned with a drive taking 5 or 10 extra minutes.
Animats 12y ago
OK, an oversized self-driving electric limo that seats 4. Why not? It's amusing that Mercedes' concept of the future of automotive transportation is total isolation from the external world. They didn't go all the way to windowless, but it seems to have more display screen acreage than side windows. They seem to have borrowed the "street glow" concept from lowriders.[1] The car has large areas of blue LEDs on the front and back faces. That's so LA. The concept might work, once they get the bulk of the vehicle down and lose the tacky bling. [1] http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff272/tilley858/RX-7-StreetGlow.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff272/tilley858/RX-7-Stre...
- jckt 12y ago
  I think a lot of that is just to advertise the car ("this the future, people!!"). For example, the article notes how large parts of the F 015 is made of "plastic that changes shape in hot weather", which Mercedes (or any other self-respecting auto brand, for that matter) is never going to put in their actual cars that they sell. So I don't think we can take the cosmetic aspects too literally as to what Mercedes' design team will actually go for with the final product.
- prawn 12y ago
  I think they're trying to retain relevance down the track because once car ownership dissipates, most people will be more utilitarian with what they hire and car less about car stylings. e.g., Google have a dorky little concept and Apple's Titan is unlikely to be sporty, assuming that turns out to be some sort of minivan. All the cabs I take are pretty standard looking and I've never cared.
b4x 12y ago
WTF!
martindale 12y ago
If I ever make a billion dollars, some portion of it will be spent to make sure a production run of cars like this are made under the GPL license such that we hackers can make and improve upon the interfaces described.
- roel_v 12y ago
  As long as nobody is legally allowed to enter a road with such modifications, I'm all for it - but I surely hope there will be strict enforcement against 'speed hacks', which user-modifiability will surely turn in to.
- prostoalex 12y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_car http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_car
lqdc13 12y ago
"After all, you don’t leave first class to sit in the cockpit." Many people do or wish they could. Also why people drive stick shift on purpose.
pluma 12y ago
> Instead of a homeless guy offering to squeegee your windshield, you’ll see crowds celebrating your passage. A Tuscan village will take the place of your crummy suburban cul de sac. Does anybody else find this train of thought disturbing? That "if I can look at screens instead of out the window I won't have to see the homeless" is one of the first things to come to the author's mind speaks volumes.
Toast_ 12y ago
Whenever I read an article like this—in advocacy of AI controlled objects, I always wonder: who would be to blame if an unfortunate circumstance would arrive? As in, say there was an accident, how could 'faulty software' be blamed, or better put, how would it stand trial? Perhaps it could go through another update (think ios 8). Problem solved?
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  Let the insurance companies figure out who to blame in each particular case; that's what they're for.
  - Toast_ 12y ago
    Right, and when they represent giant corporations, us common-folk won't have anything to fear; "It wasn't faulty software,but a dysfunctional update"—sort of thing. (my issue is that you won't be able to point a finger at anyone.)
    - TeMPOraL 12y ago
      In a system as complex, where you have millions of lines of code written by hundreds of programmers run on hundreds of chips designed by thousands of people, it doesn't really make sense to "point a finger at someone". The smallest responsible unit will most likely be the company that created the car.
      - Toast_ 12y ago
        Which is exactly the point I'm pushing: Who will pay for other's incompetence (or for lack of a better word failure)? Will we simply sweep someone's life under the rug? With regards to the idea that a company will be 'responsible,' just think of Shell and the oil in the gulf. I only want to be held accountable for my own actions, and not be a statistic a corporation sweeps under the rug. The issue is the accountability, and its ability to be exploited, not the actual legal value.
usaphp 12y ago
Like a famous vice Top Gear presenter once said "We have a self driving car already, it's called a BUS". In the article they say "There will come a time, within a few decades, when people simply will not drive anymore". I completely disagree with that opinion. For me and for most of my friends driving is a joy, its not just going from point A to point B. I don't think we will ever stop driving altogether.
- nasmorn 12y ago
  I personally hope there comes a time where you have to go to the track to do that. Because I don't see myself wanting to pay for public roads as a playground for unnecessarily dangerous activities.
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  > Like a famous vice Top Gear presenter once said "We have a self driving car already, it's called a BUS". True. > For me and for most of my friends driving is a joy, its not just going from point A to point B. I don't think we will ever stop driving altogether. We don't have to stop driving altogether, we only need to eliminate 90% of the driving - the part that is boring and joyless, i.e. commute. Also, driving on public roads should be safe, not fun.
6d0debc071 12y ago
If this car insists that pedestrians go first, to the extent of stopping and projecting a sidewalk in front of them, it'll never go anywhere very fast. People will just step out into traffic trusting that the car will stop for them - and in areas of any significant pedestrian density that'll mean that you're constantly stopped or going at a couple of miles an hour. Without the prospect of getting run down and squished if you behave like a total moron, that's what people will do.

33 points by carlchenet 12y ago

One of the things we can take from this article is that once autonomous cars are ubiquitous, you won't be able to save time when you're running late by driving dangerously. Better start learning some time management skills. And, obviously, if you have good time management skills, you wouldn't need to drive dangerously in the first place.

mwadams 12y ago
Hopefully, a key benefit of autonomous cars is that they optimize speed to minimize jams and improve overall traffic flow. https://keshavsaharia.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/traffic-optimization-system.pdf https://keshavsaharia.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/traffic-op... Things like junctions/intersections would be much better managed (we might even be able to make them free-flowing on roads where non-autonomous vehicles were banned).
- prawn 12y ago
  Like paths of ants crossing over, essentially. I find it a bit amusing that we're having to invent some incredible technologies to overcome our sense of self and resulting selfishness to act like the cooperative insects we often step on without noticing.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- onion2k 12y ago
  Assume that you're travelling 100 miles. The first 4 miles are in town, with lots of crossings, lights, etc. The middle 92 miles are on highways with a few turn offs. The final 4 miles are back in town with lights and crossings again. let's assume UK speed limits for everything (30mph in town, 70mph on highways). We'll ignore acceleration. In an autonomous car you can do the speed limit for the entire journey. That's 8 miles at 30mph and 92 miles at 70mph. The journey takes you 95 minutes. In the human-driven car you're slowed to an average of 20mph in town, but on the highway you travel at 85mph because that's what everyone else does. The journey takes you 89 minutes. Obviously the 95 minutes in the autonomous car can be a productive 95 minutes whereas driving yourself you can't do much else for those 89 minutes, which is a huge difference, but until all the cars are autonomous (or there are superfast autonomous lanes at least) then it's probably going to be quicker to drive yourself because to a human a speed limit is a guideline rather than a rule.
  - mwadams 12y ago
    Why would the speed limit on the highway be 70mph in a world of autonomous vehicles? Research indicates that a raise in the limit to 80 or 85 mph would be perfectly safe - the only reason for a 70 mph limit is to cope with heavy traffic. http://www.iam.org.uk/media-and-research/policy/our-policies/motorway-speed-limit http://www.iam.org.uk/media-and-research/policy/our-policies...

tajen 12y ago

Funny how those kinds of previews of the future always include luxury perks (in the present case they highlight the 4K display; for flights in the 60 they highlighted luxury meals) when the reality is obviously pragmatic. More seriously, I wonder how automated cars deals with our road traditions. In France, if you leave the officially required distance with the front car on the highway, another car will insert in between. Then you'll have to slow down, and another car will insert, and so on. Cars can't be programmed to perform something illegal, so I guess they don't deal with "competitive situations" efficiently.

camhenlin 12y ago
Yeah -- and that's a good point. I am also interested in seeing if we're going to see a bunch of self driving cars running around at exactly the speed limit, like grandma out on a Sunday drive. And how many drivers is that going to anger?
- ryan-allen 12y ago
  Depends on where you live and what the local laws are. Where I live (Melbourne, Victoria) most people drive _under_ the speed limit on the highway I take to work each day. Our local police fine us for doing 2-3km over the limit, and the fines are steep. Most of us here wouldn't notice cars driving at the speed limit.
  - lqdc13 12y ago
    It's not the local laws, but the enforcement of such laws though.
    - ryan-allen 12y ago
      And as I said, our laws are enforced to a rather strict degree.
- mattlutze 12y ago
  Consider that the source of frustration in traffic is the condition that you, the driver, are stuck behind the wheel, having to focus on creeping along. If you didn't have to pay attention, really, to your surroundings and could multitask your trip away, I suppose a driver would be less concerned with a drive taking 5 or 10 extra minutes.

Animats 12y ago

OK, an oversized self-driving electric limo that seats 4. Why not? It's amusing that Mercedes' concept of the future of automotive transportation is total isolation from the external world. They didn't go all the way to windowless, but it seems to have more display screen acreage than side windows. They seem to have borrowed the "street glow" concept from lowriders.[1] The car has large areas of blue LEDs on the front and back faces. That's so LA. The concept might work, once they get the bulk of the vehicle down and lose the tacky bling. [1] http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff272/tilley858/RX-7-StreetGlow.jpg http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff272/tilley858/RX-7-Stre...

jckt 12y ago
I think a lot of that is just to advertise the car ("this the future, people!!"). For example, the article notes how large parts of the F 015 is made of "plastic that changes shape in hot weather", which Mercedes (or any other self-respecting auto brand, for that matter) is never going to put in their actual cars that they sell. So I don't think we can take the cosmetic aspects too literally as to what Mercedes' design team will actually go for with the final product.
prawn 12y ago
I think they're trying to retain relevance down the track because once car ownership dissipates, most people will be more utilitarian with what they hire and car less about car stylings. e.g., Google have a dorky little concept and Apple's Titan is unlikely to be sporty, assuming that turns out to be some sort of minivan. All the cabs I take are pretty standard looking and I've never cared.

b4x 12y ago

WTF!

martindale 12y ago

If I ever make a billion dollars, some portion of it will be spent to make sure a production run of cars like this are made under the GPL license such that we hackers can make and improve upon the interfaces described.

roel_v 12y ago
As long as nobody is legally allowed to enter a road with such modifications, I'm all for it - but I surely hope there will be strict enforcement against 'speed hacks', which user-modifiability will surely turn in to.
prostoalex 12y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_car http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_car

lqdc13 12y ago

"After all, you don’t leave first class to sit in the cockpit." Many people do or wish they could. Also why people drive stick shift on purpose.

pluma 12y ago

> Instead of a homeless guy offering to squeegee your windshield, you’ll see crowds celebrating your passage. A Tuscan village will take the place of your crummy suburban cul de sac. Does anybody else find this train of thought disturbing? That "if I can look at screens instead of out the window I won't have to see the homeless" is one of the first things to come to the author's mind speaks volumes.

Toast_ 12y ago

Whenever I read an article like this—in advocacy of AI controlled objects, I always wonder: who would be to blame if an unfortunate circumstance would arrive? As in, say there was an accident, how could 'faulty software' be blamed, or better put, how would it stand trial? Perhaps it could go through another update (think ios 8). Problem solved?

TeMPOraL 12y ago
Let the insurance companies figure out who to blame in each particular case; that's what they're for.
- Toast_ 12y ago
  Right, and when they represent giant corporations, us common-folk won't have anything to fear; "It wasn't faulty software,but a dysfunctional update"—sort of thing. (my issue is that you won't be able to point a finger at anyone.)
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    In a system as complex, where you have millions of lines of code written by hundreds of programmers run on hundreds of chips designed by thousands of people, it doesn't really make sense to "point a finger at someone". The smallest responsible unit will most likely be the company that created the car.
    - Toast_ 12y ago
      Which is exactly the point I'm pushing: Who will pay for other's incompetence (or for lack of a better word failure)? Will we simply sweep someone's life under the rug? With regards to the idea that a company will be 'responsible,' just think of Shell and the oil in the gulf. I only want to be held accountable for my own actions, and not be a statistic a corporation sweeps under the rug. The issue is the accountability, and its ability to be exploited, not the actual legal value.

usaphp 12y ago

Like a famous vice Top Gear presenter once said "We have a self driving car already, it's called a BUS". In the article they say "There will come a time, within a few decades, when people simply will not drive anymore". I completely disagree with that opinion. For me and for most of my friends driving is a joy, its not just going from point A to point B. I don't think we will ever stop driving altogether.

nasmorn 12y ago
I personally hope there comes a time where you have to go to the track to do that. Because I don't see myself wanting to pay for public roads as a playground for unnecessarily dangerous activities.
TeMPOraL 12y ago
> Like a famous vice Top Gear presenter once said "We have a self driving car already, it's called a BUS". True. > For me and for most of my friends driving is a joy, its not just going from point A to point B. I don't think we will ever stop driving altogether. We don't have to stop driving altogether, we only need to eliminate 90% of the driving - the part that is boring and joyless, i.e. commute. Also, driving on public roads should be safe, not fun.

6d0debc071 12y ago

If this car insists that pedestrians go first, to the extent of stopping and projecting a sidewalk in front of them, it'll never go anywhere very fast. People will just step out into traffic trusting that the car will stop for them - and in areas of any significant pedestrian density that'll mean that you're constantly stopped or going at a couple of miles an hour. Without the prospect of getting run down and squished if you behave like a total moron, that's what people will do.