7 ms·

New hubiC offers

57 points by vcasse_at_ovh 12y ago

lifeisstillgood 12y ago
But, why? The upload time / cost must be enormous (on my home DSL it would take all year to upload. And the value of online remote storage is seriously limited by the access time. This is like the fragmented 20TB hard disk (considers the magnetic upper limit) - even if you had a disk that size the seek times would mean months to take the data off. It's nice to have but the uplift needs to occur throughout the whole network for there to be benefit.
- icebraining 12y ago
  Well, surprisingly, not everyone has your home DSL connection. We're far from the country with the fastest connections, but even here you can get one where it would only take 20 days to upload, and less than a day to download everything, for less than $30/month (and that includes cable TV and a landline with free calls).
- anewhnaccount 12y ago
  For backups?
- dheera 12y ago
  > This is like the fragmented 20TB hard disk (considers the magnetic upper limit) - even if you had a disk that size the seek times would mean months to take the data off. The seek times don't matter if you want to read large chunks of data, it's the sustained read/write speeds that do, and it certainly won't take months. Also, I don't think we'll be using magnetic disks for much longer. 1 TB SSD's can be had for <$400 already. > It's nice to have but the uplift needs to occur throughout the whole network for there to be benefit. That uplift is happening. South Korea, Japan, and several US cities can already do symmetric gigabit connections to homes at very affordable prices. The world will follow with time.
- philtar 12y ago
  Are you serious or trolling? The vast majority of us can benefit from this. If not your home computers, then your VPSs or something like that.
  - icebraining 12y ago
    To stress your point, hubiC supports the OpenStack API to access your storage: https://api.hubic.com/ https://api.hubic.com/
    - SSLy 12y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9281292 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9281292
  - lifeisstillgood 12y ago
    Serious if not rigorous. Someone downthread quoted 10 days at 100Mbps is fine - when that's two years at 1Mbps a common end to end throughput. Cloud computing is a massive game changer, but while the economics have changed, the laws of physics and calculus of reliability has not - at some point I cannot imagine not saying "my really important data is, once all is said and done, mirrored across those two physical hard disks in this physical location. Preferably encrypted with this key." Moving across the network to retrieve from disk is always the slowest part of an operation. This is unlikely to stop being true. And until the entire internet thinks nothing of 10TB as a transfer then storing that much "somewhere" is always going to be far far less reliable than planning a storage stack taking into account topology, relevance, usage and risk. We used to worry about fitting things into 1KB, not a word doc takes 1MB, neither of which trouble any modern network. But to me, and I may be wrong, we are in the 1KB internet while these guys are offering cloud storage for 1MB word docs.
- SXX 12y ago
  > But, why? For example you may want way to backup huge video files, panoramic photos or any other huge files. Obvious solution is your own storage, but usually you'll want at least one extra backup point because HDD these days a lot less reliable than cloud services. > The upload time / cost must be enormous (on my home DSL it would take all year to upload. It's sad that not everyone around the world have fast internet connection, but with 100Mb/s it's would take just about 10 days. I personally don't have that fast speed, but from my experience Microsoft OneDrive can handle like 70Mb/s upload just fine.
- 3pt14159 12y ago
  I've got fiber baby. Saturate the network card. 🚀
- bhouston 12y ago
  Great for storing backups of services already on the cloud - OVH's primary customers.
- userbinator 12y ago
  I agree about "whole network" - you may be able to upload at 100Mbps or even faster to some hosts, but the Internet ultimately is not a circuit-switched network so the realistic speeds you'll get are highly dependent on the path and what other traffic is passing through the various routers and links along the way. The bottleneck may not be at the connection to your ISP, but somewhere else. Despite having a connection that is advertised for 50Mbps down - and I have achieved that speed when accessing hosts relatively close to me - the average speeds I get among all the sites I visit and download files big enough to notice the speed from would appear to be in the 1-2Mbps range.
veeti 12y ago
How's the Linux support for hubiC? Could use this for backups.
- icebraining 12y ago
  They've had support since 2013, but it's supposedly still in beta: https://forums.hubic.com/showthread.php?272-hubiC-for-Linux-beta-is-out- https://forums.hubic.com/showthread.php?272-hubiC-for-Linux-...!
  - mhurron 12y ago
    I would call it half-hearted.
- aw3c2 12y ago
  hubicfuse works but is unreliable (make sure you verify your transfers) and slow.
  - jedisct1 12y ago
    Hubicfuse is as stable as nitroglycerine. Completely unusable on OSX.
zeeed 12y ago
hubiC had a great campaign a while ago which made me try it out. their client crashed and produced dialog boxes every time my notebook was offline or didn't get an IP address fast enough. My experience is about half a year old now but back then it has been a horrible piece of engineering not only from the client but also from their website (EULA in french only). Personally, I felt it was not good value for money but rather a cheap service that I wouldn't want to trust with my data let alone backups.
- icebraining 12y ago
  I don't have the greatest of impressions of OVH either, though I didn't have any problems during my short period trying out hubiC. That said, I'd rather have my backups on many cheap providers than on a single expensive one. There are inherent risks in relying on a single company.
justinsb 12y ago
I would stay away from OVH until they fix their billing system. At least on the server side, you have to log in and pay an invoice by PayPal each month. And if you forget, they delete the server without further warning. Love the services, but the billing system must cost them a huge amount of customers - both customers that find it too time consuming, or customers that forget and are forcibly ejected!
- xeroxmalf 12y ago
  They send you an email when you have: 30 days, 2 weeks, 1 week, and 3 days left. Plenty of reminders for me.
  - justinsb 12y ago
    Personally, I don't want a sequence of emails; I want automatic billing. Maybe someone from Stripe can persuade OVH that PayPal is not the best way to process payments (please?)
    - Dylan16807 12y ago
      While paypal is not the best, it does have automatic payment support, so...
    - tokenizerrr 12y ago
      Paypal is pretty great for most people outside America where credit cards are, luckily, not the norm.
      - _delirium 12y ago
        It's funny to think of cards being perceived as an American thing; I always saw the U.S. as relatively cash-oriented compared to other places. In Scandinavia you don't even buy a €3 coffee or €5 kebab without pulling out your card (the same is true in South Korea, and increasingly in Japan).
jamescun 12y ago
I signed up for hubiC a while back with the intention of using their touted OpenStack compatibility with Duplicity for encrypted backups (using the Swift backend) - only to discover they have placed their own authentication mechanism on top of OpenStack, breaking compatibility with all OpenStack clients. The only solutions available seem to be running a proxy between your client and hubiC.
- zeendo 12y ago
  Thanks for the heads up. I was about to sign up for the same reason. Have you found a better alternative for duplicity backups?
- Dosenpfand 12y ago
  It seems that since duplicity v0.7.01 [1] (2015/01/11) it has native support for hubic [2]. Will definitely check it out. [1] http://www.nongnu.org/duplicity/CHANGELOG http://www.nongnu.org/duplicity/CHANGELOG [2] http://duplicity.nongnu.org/duplicity.1.html#sect17 http://duplicity.nongnu.org/duplicity.1.html#sect17
- hackerboos 12y ago
  OVH like to dick around with the kernels on their VPS and dedicated servers. You can work around it but I really wish they didn't do this.
  - blfr 12y ago
    On dedicated servers at least you don't need to work around it. You can install vanilla version of your chosen distribution straight from their panel.
- rakoo 12y ago
  > The only solutions available seem to be running a proxy between your client and hubiC. Actually hubiC doesn't want you to use its API unless you're a developer, which means you must pass the steps necessary to "create an application", after which you will be able to use all API calls. It's burdensome but doable.
shocks 12y ago
Link with no tracking params: https://hubic.com/en/offers/storage-10tb https://hubic.com/en/offers/storage-10tb
selckin 12y ago
Last time this was posted, several people suggested they strongly cap upload speed to something silly like 200kb/s so it would take years to actually use that "10tb"
- dewey 12y ago
  That seems to be through the web interface, I've seen screenshots of people pushing more than 10MB/s.
  - minot 12y ago
    I don't have a fat enough pipe to confirm or deny 10 MB/s but here's my experiment uploading a few RAW photo files (~25 MB each). Seems good enough. I haven't tried download speed though. For what it is worth, downloading files from the web interface in Microsoft OneDrive (previously SkyDrive) is ridiculously slow. I think there is a distinction to be made between syncing (Dropbox, Google Drive, Barracuda Copy, Microsoft OneDrive and so on) and back ups. The providers try to blur the lines with features like trash can (where files go when you delete and you have to delete again), file history so you can go to a previous version of a file, selective synchronization so you can only download files you need and so on. However, I'd say the distinction still remains because we need to measure backups by how easily and quickly we can recover in case of a disaster. At 10 TB, I'd imagine OP falls in the latter category. If they limited us to 200 kbps unless we paid extra, that'd be a big fail. That being said, I doubt they'd do that. Here's a screenshot of me reaching 37 mbps peak upload: https://i.imgur.com/1tSr48U.png https://i.imgur.com/1tSr48U.png Edit: I take it back. Upload from the web interface stalled. https://i.imgur.com/UC8qWA4.png https://i.imgur.com/UC8qWA4.png
    - minot 12y ago
      I don't know why the upload stalled but I went back to upload the rest of the files and it worked. I tried downloading and it was a little under 2 mbps which isn't that great.
- tiernano 12y ago
  i have been uploading a back up to them for the last, nearly, 20ish hours at near enough my full upload speed of 68Mbits/s... so, i cant see any caps yet... I did pay for the 10TB package too...
BoardsOfCanada 12y ago
Should be ok for encrypted backups. I wouldn't trust a British company with anything sensitive, given their government's policy on privacy.
- dewey 12y ago
  OVH is a french company, if you read their terms the contract is between you and OVH France.
  - BoardsOfCanada 12y ago
    Ok, thanks, assumed it was British because the prices were in pounds on linked page. EDIT: And now I see they were in euro, not my best day.
  - msh 12y ago
    Are France any better? they outlawed encryption long after the Americans had given up on it.
    - dewey 12y ago
      Probably not, just trying to keep the facts straight. Offsite backups should always be encrypted on the client side, so it doesn't really matter where the provider is located or if it's trustworthy. (except for things like reliability / retrievability).
      - msh 12y ago
        Can't disagree with that.
    - renaudg 12y ago
      That is quite an outlandish statement, encryption is absolutely not outlawed in France. The government is however, currently brewing an awful local version of the Patriot Act just as the US seems to be dismantling it.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
yc1010 12y ago
Last I checked their API was useless, can anyone comment on upload/download speeds (i have 10gbit servers could use backup location)
jarnix 12y ago
I heard some stories from someone inside OVH who told me that basically Hubic is not stable enough so you can lose some files (without knowing which ones). I wouldn't use Hubic seriously. I'm using OVH for other services (dns, servers) and I'm quite happy with their services though.
lingben 12y ago
does this have client side encryption? they only mention login/password which doesn't really explain anything https://hubic.com/en/data-security https://hubic.com/en/data-security
- AlyssaRowan 12y ago
  It does not. Duplicity can use it, however, which does client-side encryption for you, as mentioned above. Well, duplicity can usually use it. You may have connection problems, because hubic.com is TLS version-intolerant; it'll only use TLSv1.0 (and does NOT negotiate with TLSv1.1/TLSv1.2) with AES-256, AES-128 or 3DES, with RSA and no forward secrecy. Not what I wanted to see.
mdekkers 12y ago
It's OVH so I expect it to suck, and absolutely without support

57 points by vcasse_at_ovh 12y ago

But, why? The upload time / cost must be enormous (on my home DSL it would take all year to upload. And the value of online remote storage is seriously limited by the access time. This is like the fragmented 20TB hard disk (considers the magnetic upper limit) - even if you had a disk that size the seek times would mean months to take the data off. It's nice to have but the uplift needs to occur throughout the whole network for there to be benefit.

icebraining 12y ago
Well, surprisingly, not everyone has your home DSL connection. We're far from the country with the fastest connections, but even here you can get one where it would only take 20 days to upload, and less than a day to download everything, for less than $30/month (and that includes cable TV and a landline with free calls).
anewhnaccount 12y ago
For backups?
dheera 12y ago
> This is like the fragmented 20TB hard disk (considers the magnetic upper limit) - even if you had a disk that size the seek times would mean months to take the data off. The seek times don't matter if you want to read large chunks of data, it's the sustained read/write speeds that do, and it certainly won't take months. Also, I don't think we'll be using magnetic disks for much longer. 1 TB SSD's can be had for <$400 already. > It's nice to have but the uplift needs to occur throughout the whole network for there to be benefit. That uplift is happening. South Korea, Japan, and several US cities can already do symmetric gigabit connections to homes at very affordable prices. The world will follow with time.
philtar 12y ago
Are you serious or trolling? The vast majority of us can benefit from this. If not your home computers, then your VPSs or something like that.
- icebraining 12y ago
  To stress your point, hubiC supports the OpenStack API to access your storage: https://api.hubic.com/ https://api.hubic.com/
  - SSLy 12y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9281292 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9281292
- lifeisstillgood 12y ago
  Serious if not rigorous. Someone downthread quoted 10 days at 100Mbps is fine - when that's two years at 1Mbps a common end to end throughput. Cloud computing is a massive game changer, but while the economics have changed, the laws of physics and calculus of reliability has not - at some point I cannot imagine not saying "my really important data is, once all is said and done, mirrored across those two physical hard disks in this physical location. Preferably encrypted with this key." Moving across the network to retrieve from disk is always the slowest part of an operation. This is unlikely to stop being true. And until the entire internet thinks nothing of 10TB as a transfer then storing that much "somewhere" is always going to be far far less reliable than planning a storage stack taking into account topology, relevance, usage and risk. We used to worry about fitting things into 1KB, not a word doc takes 1MB, neither of which trouble any modern network. But to me, and I may be wrong, we are in the 1KB internet while these guys are offering cloud storage for 1MB word docs.
SXX 12y ago
> But, why? For example you may want way to backup huge video files, panoramic photos or any other huge files. Obvious solution is your own storage, but usually you'll want at least one extra backup point because HDD these days a lot less reliable than cloud services. > The upload time / cost must be enormous (on my home DSL it would take all year to upload. It's sad that not everyone around the world have fast internet connection, but with 100Mb/s it's would take just about 10 days. I personally don't have that fast speed, but from my experience Microsoft OneDrive can handle like 70Mb/s upload just fine.
3pt14159 12y ago
I've got fiber baby. Saturate the network card. 🚀
bhouston 12y ago
Great for storing backups of services already on the cloud - OVH's primary customers.
userbinator 12y ago
I agree about "whole network" - you may be able to upload at 100Mbps or even faster to some hosts, but the Internet ultimately is not a circuit-switched network so the realistic speeds you'll get are highly dependent on the path and what other traffic is passing through the various routers and links along the way. The bottleneck may not be at the connection to your ISP, but somewhere else. Despite having a connection that is advertised for 50Mbps down - and I have achieved that speed when accessing hosts relatively close to me - the average speeds I get among all the sites I visit and download files big enough to notice the speed from would appear to be in the 1-2Mbps range.

veeti 12y ago

How's the Linux support for hubiC? Could use this for backups.

icebraining 12y ago
They've had support since 2013, but it's supposedly still in beta: https://forums.hubic.com/showthread.php?272-hubiC-for-Linux-beta-is-out- https://forums.hubic.com/showthread.php?272-hubiC-for-Linux-...!
- mhurron 12y ago
  I would call it half-hearted.
aw3c2 12y ago
hubicfuse works but is unreliable (make sure you verify your transfers) and slow.
- jedisct1 12y ago
  Hubicfuse is as stable as nitroglycerine. Completely unusable on OSX.

zeeed 12y ago

hubiC had a great campaign a while ago which made me try it out. their client crashed and produced dialog boxes every time my notebook was offline or didn't get an IP address fast enough. My experience is about half a year old now but back then it has been a horrible piece of engineering not only from the client but also from their website (EULA in french only). Personally, I felt it was not good value for money but rather a cheap service that I wouldn't want to trust with my data let alone backups.

icebraining 12y ago
I don't have the greatest of impressions of OVH either, though I didn't have any problems during my short period trying out hubiC. That said, I'd rather have my backups on many cheap providers than on a single expensive one. There are inherent risks in relying on a single company.

justinsb 12y ago

I would stay away from OVH until they fix their billing system. At least on the server side, you have to log in and pay an invoice by PayPal each month. And if you forget, they delete the server without further warning. Love the services, but the billing system must cost them a huge amount of customers - both customers that find it too time consuming, or customers that forget and are forcibly ejected!

xeroxmalf 12y ago
They send you an email when you have: 30 days, 2 weeks, 1 week, and 3 days left. Plenty of reminders for me.
- justinsb 12y ago
  Personally, I don't want a sequence of emails; I want automatic billing. Maybe someone from Stripe can persuade OVH that PayPal is not the best way to process payments (please?)
  - Dylan16807 12y ago
    While paypal is not the best, it does have automatic payment support, so...
  - tokenizerrr 12y ago
    Paypal is pretty great for most people outside America where credit cards are, luckily, not the norm.
    - _delirium 12y ago
      It's funny to think of cards being perceived as an American thing; I always saw the U.S. as relatively cash-oriented compared to other places. In Scandinavia you don't even buy a €3 coffee or €5 kebab without pulling out your card (the same is true in South Korea, and increasingly in Japan).

jamescun 12y ago

I signed up for hubiC a while back with the intention of using their touted OpenStack compatibility with Duplicity for encrypted backups (using the Swift backend) - only to discover they have placed their own authentication mechanism on top of OpenStack, breaking compatibility with all OpenStack clients. The only solutions available seem to be running a proxy between your client and hubiC.

zeendo 12y ago
Thanks for the heads up. I was about to sign up for the same reason. Have you found a better alternative for duplicity backups?
Dosenpfand 12y ago
It seems that since duplicity v0.7.01 [1] (2015/01/11) it has native support for hubic [2]. Will definitely check it out. [1] http://www.nongnu.org/duplicity/CHANGELOG http://www.nongnu.org/duplicity/CHANGELOG [2] http://duplicity.nongnu.org/duplicity.1.html#sect17 http://duplicity.nongnu.org/duplicity.1.html#sect17
hackerboos 12y ago
OVH like to dick around with the kernels on their VPS and dedicated servers. You can work around it but I really wish they didn't do this.
- blfr 12y ago
  On dedicated servers at least you don't need to work around it. You can install vanilla version of your chosen distribution straight from their panel.
rakoo 12y ago
> The only solutions available seem to be running a proxy between your client and hubiC. Actually hubiC doesn't want you to use its API unless you're a developer, which means you must pass the steps necessary to "create an application", after which you will be able to use all API calls. It's burdensome but doable.

shocks 12y ago

Link with no tracking params: https://hubic.com/en/offers/storage-10tb https://hubic.com/en/offers/storage-10tb

selckin 12y ago

Last time this was posted, several people suggested they strongly cap upload speed to something silly like 200kb/s so it would take years to actually use that "10tb"

dewey 12y ago
That seems to be through the web interface, I've seen screenshots of people pushing more than 10MB/s.
- minot 12y ago
  I don't have a fat enough pipe to confirm or deny 10 MB/s but here's my experiment uploading a few RAW photo files (~25 MB each). Seems good enough. I haven't tried download speed though. For what it is worth, downloading files from the web interface in Microsoft OneDrive (previously SkyDrive) is ridiculously slow. I think there is a distinction to be made between syncing (Dropbox, Google Drive, Barracuda Copy, Microsoft OneDrive and so on) and back ups. The providers try to blur the lines with features like trash can (where files go when you delete and you have to delete again), file history so you can go to a previous version of a file, selective synchronization so you can only download files you need and so on. However, I'd say the distinction still remains because we need to measure backups by how easily and quickly we can recover in case of a disaster. At 10 TB, I'd imagine OP falls in the latter category. If they limited us to 200 kbps unless we paid extra, that'd be a big fail. That being said, I doubt they'd do that. Here's a screenshot of me reaching 37 mbps peak upload: https://i.imgur.com/1tSr48U.png https://i.imgur.com/1tSr48U.png Edit: I take it back. Upload from the web interface stalled. https://i.imgur.com/UC8qWA4.png https://i.imgur.com/UC8qWA4.png
  - minot 12y ago
    I don't know why the upload stalled but I went back to upload the rest of the files and it worked. I tried downloading and it was a little under 2 mbps which isn't that great.
tiernano 12y ago
i have been uploading a back up to them for the last, nearly, 20ish hours at near enough my full upload speed of 68Mbits/s... so, i cant see any caps yet... I did pay for the 10TB package too...

BoardsOfCanada 12y ago

Should be ok for encrypted backups. I wouldn't trust a British company with anything sensitive, given their government's policy on privacy.

dewey 12y ago
OVH is a french company, if you read their terms the contract is between you and OVH France.
- BoardsOfCanada 12y ago
  Ok, thanks, assumed it was British because the prices were in pounds on linked page. EDIT: And now I see they were in euro, not my best day.
- msh 12y ago
  Are France any better? they outlawed encryption long after the Americans had given up on it.
  - dewey 12y ago
    Probably not, just trying to keep the facts straight. Offsite backups should always be encrypted on the client side, so it doesn't really matter where the provider is located or if it's trustworthy. (except for things like reliability / retrievability).
    - msh 12y ago
      Can't disagree with that.
  - renaudg 12y ago
    That is quite an outlandish statement, encryption is absolutely not outlawed in France. The government is however, currently brewing an awful local version of the Patriot Act just as the US seems to be dismantling it.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

yc1010 12y ago

Last I checked their API was useless, can anyone comment on upload/download speeds (i have 10gbit servers could use backup location)

jarnix 12y ago

I heard some stories from someone inside OVH who told me that basically Hubic is not stable enough so you can lose some files (without knowing which ones). I wouldn't use Hubic seriously. I'm using OVH for other services (dns, servers) and I'm quite happy with their services though.

lingben 12y ago

does this have client side encryption? they only mention login/password which doesn't really explain anything https://hubic.com/en/data-security https://hubic.com/en/data-security

AlyssaRowan 12y ago
It does not. Duplicity can use it, however, which does client-side encryption for you, as mentioned above. Well, duplicity can usually use it. You may have connection problems, because hubic.com is TLS version-intolerant; it'll only use TLSv1.0 (and does NOT negotiate with TLSv1.1/TLSv1.2) with AES-256, AES-128 or 3DES, with RSA and no forward secrecy. Not what I wanted to see.

mdekkers 12y ago

It's OVH so I expect it to suck, and absolutely without support