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And he continues: > You don’t punch a mentally handicapped guy even if he punches you first. And you don’t argue when a women tells you she’s only making 80 ce

by tomp 12y ago

And he continues: > You don’t punch a mentally handicapped guy even if he punches you first. And you don’t argue when a women tells you she’s only making 80 cents to your dollar. It’s the path of least resistance. You save your energy for more important battles. Which is kind of a good point. I definitely don't argue with Christians about evolution because it's clearly a waste of time and I have more important things to do.

untog 12y ago
...a good point, horribly argued. You don't punch a mentally handicapped guy because he is mentally handicapped and is not responsible for what he is doing. How does that relate to a woman only making 80 cents on the dollar? It's an awful, awful analogy. The implication is that a mentally handicapped man shouldn't do what he does but can't be blamed because he isn't responsible. But women should complain about earning 80c on the dollar.
- ossreality 12y ago
  How the flying fuck are you being downvoted. Just fucking kill me. I knew I should've never read this hread.
- Scarfleece 12y ago
  You probably think you're doing women a favour with this nitpicky attitude, but it only trivializes the focus of the issues to the wording choice of a single fucking person. Let the little things slide.
  - untog 12y ago
    I'm not arrogant enough to think that "women" care one bit about what I'm doing. it only trivializes the focus of the issues to the wording choice of a single fucking person Have you been on Hacker News before?
- tsotha 12y ago
  >How does that relate to a woman only making 80 cents on the dollar? Because women don't make 80 cents on the dollar, unless you think brain surgeons and hairdressers ought to make the same amount of money.
  - untog 12y ago
    Amazing people still believe that, despite the evidence staring them in the face. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/upshot/the-pay-gap-is-because-of-gender-not-jobs.html?abt=0002&abg=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/upshot/the-pay-gap-is-beca... "Are women paid less than men because they choose to be, by gravitating to lower-paying jobs like teaching and social work? [...] But a majority of the pay gap between men and women actually comes from differences within occupations, not between them — and widens in the highest-paying ones like business, law and medicine according to data from Claudia Goldin, a Harvard University labor economist and a leading scholar on women and the economy."
    - tsotha 12y ago
      Amazing people put forth that bogus 81 cents number and then start talking about data as if it supported their position. I was just pointing out that number was obviously fraudulent as it doesn't take occupation into account. But what happens when we look at education, occupation, hours worked, willingness to travel, etc? "This study leads to the unambiguous conclusion that the differences in the compensation of men and women are the result of a multitude of factors and that the raw wage gap should not be used as the basis to justify corrective action. Indeed, there may be nothing to correct. The differences in raw wages may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers." http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20...
      - untog 12y ago
        Amazing that the other reply to my post told me to not have such a "nitpicky attitude" [1] when another tells me that such nitpicking is crucial. It's almost as if people are doing any mental gymnastics they can to derail conversation into insignificant side roads rather than the actual issue at hand. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9279813 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9279813
seanmcdirmid 12y ago
Just...most Christians believe in evolution just fine. Its a few fundamentalists that don't, and ya, I don't want to argue with them either, not worth the energy.
- joshuapants 12y ago
  > most Christians [citation needed] Given that the most mainstream support for evolution in Christianity involves the magical hand of the Lord pushing every last selection, I don't know that I'd say they believe in it "just fine," more that they believe in a really bastardized version of it so they stop looking silly.
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    I can't believe I have to argue about this. Ok, citations... The pope believes in evolution: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/10/28/pope-francis-backs-theory-of-evolution-says-god-is-no-wizard/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/10/28... A lot of the Christians in the world are catholic, you know. I guess if you want to be American-centric though, so lets go to Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution There is a nice chart there, but... > Molleen Matsumura of the National Center for Science Education found, of Americans in the twelve largest Christian denominations, at least 77% belong to churches that support evolution education (and that at one point, this figure was as high as 89.6%). Really, I'm probably an Atheist also (though I don't identify as one, I just don't believe in God), and the only time I have to deal with creationists is in small town America (evangelicals), but they are not the overwhelming majority of Christians (I guess...I don't really ask). And if they say they believe in evolution, why doubt them? Why accuse them of making twisted rationalizations? It just doesn't make for intelligent debate on either side.
    - joshuapants 12y ago
      Thank you for reading my comment. The pope believes in theistic evolution which is essentially incompatible with actual evolution. It's like saying Deepak Chopra is an expert in quantum science. Even better, not all Catholics believe in lock-step with what the pope does (see: Catholics who have gotten abortions, Catholics who are rich, Catholics in favor of the death penalty, etc.). I don't know why you would think I'm being American-centric, my comment was regarding Christians around the globe, not just the ones you've met. There are an awful lot of Christians in non-industrialized countries who don't behave like the ones you've met. > I'm probably an Atheist also Don't try to include me in your fedora-support-group, I'm Jewish. > And if they say they believe in evolution, why doubt them? Why accuse them of making twisted rationalizations? It just doesn't make for intelligent debate on either side. If the Russian government says it has fair elections, why doubt them?

by tomp 12y ago

untog 12y ago

...a good point, horribly argued. You don't punch a mentally handicapped guy because he is mentally handicapped and is not responsible for what he is doing. How does that relate to a woman only making 80 cents on the dollar? It's an awful, awful analogy. The implication is that a mentally handicapped man shouldn't do what he does but can't be blamed because he isn't responsible. But women should complain about earning 80c on the dollar.

ossreality 12y ago
How the flying fuck are you being downvoted. Just fucking kill me. I knew I should've never read this hread.
Scarfleece 12y ago
You probably think you're doing women a favour with this nitpicky attitude, but it only trivializes the focus of the issues to the wording choice of a single fucking person. Let the little things slide.
- untog 12y ago
  I'm not arrogant enough to think that "women" care one bit about what I'm doing. it only trivializes the focus of the issues to the wording choice of a single fucking person Have you been on Hacker News before?
tsotha 12y ago
>How does that relate to a woman only making 80 cents on the dollar? Because women don't make 80 cents on the dollar, unless you think brain surgeons and hairdressers ought to make the same amount of money.
- untog 12y ago
  Amazing people still believe that, despite the evidence staring them in the face. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/upshot/the-pay-gap-is-because-of-gender-not-jobs.html?abt=0002&abg=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/upshot/the-pay-gap-is-beca... "Are women paid less than men because they choose to be, by gravitating to lower-paying jobs like teaching and social work? [...] But a majority of the pay gap between men and women actually comes from differences within occupations, not between them — and widens in the highest-paying ones like business, law and medicine according to data from Claudia Goldin, a Harvard University labor economist and a leading scholar on women and the economy."
  - tsotha 12y ago
    Amazing people put forth that bogus 81 cents number and then start talking about data as if it supported their position. I was just pointing out that number was obviously fraudulent as it doesn't take occupation into account. But what happens when we look at education, occupation, hours worked, willingness to travel, etc? "This study leads to the unambiguous conclusion that the differences in the compensation of men and women are the result of a multitude of factors and that the raw wage gap should not be used as the basis to justify corrective action. Indeed, there may be nothing to correct. The differences in raw wages may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers." http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Final%20Report.pdf http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20...
    - untog 12y ago
      Amazing that the other reply to my post told me to not have such a "nitpicky attitude" [1] when another tells me that such nitpicking is crucial. It's almost as if people are doing any mental gymnastics they can to derail conversation into insignificant side roads rather than the actual issue at hand. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9279813 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9279813

seanmcdirmid 12y ago

Just...most Christians believe in evolution just fine. Its a few fundamentalists that don't, and ya, I don't want to argue with them either, not worth the energy.

joshuapants 12y ago
> most Christians [citation needed] Given that the most mainstream support for evolution in Christianity involves the magical hand of the Lord pushing every last selection, I don't know that I'd say they believe in it "just fine," more that they believe in a really bastardized version of it so they stop looking silly.
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  I can't believe I have to argue about this. Ok, citations... The pope believes in evolution: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/10/28/pope-francis-backs-theory-of-evolution-says-god-is-no-wizard/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/10/28... A lot of the Christians in the world are catholic, you know. I guess if you want to be American-centric though, so lets go to Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution There is a nice chart there, but... > Molleen Matsumura of the National Center for Science Education found, of Americans in the twelve largest Christian denominations, at least 77% belong to churches that support evolution education (and that at one point, this figure was as high as 89.6%). Really, I'm probably an Atheist also (though I don't identify as one, I just don't believe in God), and the only time I have to deal with creationists is in small town America (evangelicals), but they are not the overwhelming majority of Christians (I guess...I don't really ask). And if they say they believe in evolution, why doubt them? Why accuse them of making twisted rationalizations? It just doesn't make for intelligent debate on either side.
  - joshuapants 12y ago
    Thank you for reading my comment. The pope believes in theistic evolution which is essentially incompatible with actual evolution. It's like saying Deepak Chopra is an expert in quantum science. Even better, not all Catholics believe in lock-step with what the pope does (see: Catholics who have gotten abortions, Catholics who are rich, Catholics in favor of the death penalty, etc.). I don't know why you would think I'm being American-centric, my comment was regarding Christians around the globe, not just the ones you've met. There are an awful lot of Christians in non-industrialized countries who don't behave like the ones you've met. > I'm probably an Atheist also Don't try to include me in your fedora-support-group, I'm Jewish. > And if they say they believe in evolution, why doubt them? Why accuse them of making twisted rationalizations? It just doesn't make for intelligent debate on either side. If the Russian government says it has fair elections, why doubt them?