5 ms·

Probably not. While it wasn't intended to be so, JavaScript has become the lingua franca of web browsers and is therefore heading towards a future of being a co

Probably not. While it wasn't intended to be so, JavaScript has become the lingua franca of web browsers and is therefore heading towards a future of being a compilation target. If your program can't compile to JavaScript, it doesn't really run on browsers (in much the same sense as "If your program can't be compiled to x86 assembly, it doesn't really run on computers"). https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death-of-javascript https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death...

libria 12y ago
> heading towards a future of being a compilation target Having to trace/debug compiled javascript from another language is a horrific future. In your analogy, C programmers would have to debug assembly. I agree it's the most probable future, but let no one call it innovation when it's simply resignation from lack of options.
- wtetzner 12y ago
  There's no reason Javascript can't get better at being the assembly language of the web, including making debugging of other languages easier.
- bad_user 12y ago
  You haven't heard of source maps then.
- TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
  "Having to trace/debug compiled x86 machine code from another language is a horrific future."
ajkjk 12y ago
It seems to me that we should really be looking for browsers to compile (or at least appear to compile, even if they skip this as an optimization) Javascript into a lower-level 'assembly' language, so that Dart can be made to compile to the same form. A LLVM for browsers, basically. JS is a terrible assembly language. But the work that's been done on making it passable for that purpose is remarkable, so we're getting by with it.
- Touche 12y ago
  You have to ask yourself if it's easier to get all browser vendors to agree on an intermediate language or to get them to agree on new apis that makes javascript better for that purpose.
  - marcosdumay 12y ago
    It's easier to make them agree on an intermediate language. Mostly because one can make such VM as a BSD licensed plugin. Just make the DOM available as some virtualized "system calls" and you'll avoid the fate of Java and Flash.
    - fixermark 12y ago
      What's a plugin? Is that one of those things that "nobody" willingly installs in their browser unless they absolutely have to because much of the market doesn't even understand what they are and the ones that do still want to avoid them because they decrease browser stability?
      - marcosdumay 12y ago
        Whatever it is, somehow most people still have Flash installed on their computers, and a lot of them have Java.
        fixermark 12y ago
        Those are two of the exceptions to the rule. Quite literally; there is a section of the Mozilla browser codebase that actively seeks out those plugins (along with QuickTime, Windows Media Player, and Acrobat Reader) because users who lack them experience a "broken web" (http://lxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/plugins/base/nsPluginDirServiceProvider.cpp http://lxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/plugins/ba...). I'm not saying becoming one of those plugins is impossible---clearly, it's been done more than zero times. I'm saying that I really wouldn't base any business decisions around the assumption that it will happen for your plugin.

libria 12y ago

> heading towards a future of being a compilation target Having to trace/debug compiled javascript from another language is a horrific future. In your analogy, C programmers would have to debug assembly. I agree it's the most probable future, but let no one call it innovation when it's simply resignation from lack of options.

wtetzner 12y ago
There's no reason Javascript can't get better at being the assembly language of the web, including making debugging of other languages easier.
bad_user 12y ago
You haven't heard of source maps then.
TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
"Having to trace/debug compiled x86 machine code from another language is a horrific future."

ajkjk 12y ago

It seems to me that we should really be looking for browsers to compile (or at least appear to compile, even if they skip this as an optimization) Javascript into a lower-level 'assembly' language, so that Dart can be made to compile to the same form. A LLVM for browsers, basically. JS is a terrible assembly language. But the work that's been done on making it passable for that purpose is remarkable, so we're getting by with it.

Touche 12y ago
You have to ask yourself if it's easier to get all browser vendors to agree on an intermediate language or to get them to agree on new apis that makes javascript better for that purpose.
- marcosdumay 12y ago
  It's easier to make them agree on an intermediate language. Mostly because one can make such VM as a BSD licensed plugin. Just make the DOM available as some virtualized "system calls" and you'll avoid the fate of Java and Flash.
  - fixermark 12y ago
    What's a plugin? Is that one of those things that "nobody" willingly installs in their browser unless they absolutely have to because much of the market doesn't even understand what they are and the ones that do still want to avoid them because they decrease browser stability?
    - marcosdumay 12y ago
      Whatever it is, somehow most people still have Flash installed on their computers, and a lot of them have Java.
      - fixermark 12y ago
        Those are two of the exceptions to the rule. Quite literally; there is a section of the Mozilla browser codebase that actively seeks out those plugins (along with QuickTime, Windows Media Player, and Acrobat Reader) because users who lack them experience a "broken web" (http://lxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/plugins/base/nsPluginDirServiceProvider.cpp http://lxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/plugins/ba...). I'm not saying becoming one of those plugins is impossible---clearly, it's been done more than zero times. I'm saying that I really wouldn't base any business decisions around the assumption that it will happen for your plugin.