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Quick anecdote: A close friend of mine had recently graduated college and after a series of interviews got in Hacker School. When he went for the visa interview

Quick anecdote: A close friend of mine had recently graduated college and after a series of interviews got in Hacker School. When he went for the visa interview (in India), the officer got really wary of him on learning that he's going to US, right after graduating of college, with no job to a place called "Hacker School". He had open the website and spend a long time in explaining him in what HS is about. Quite expectedly, he was denied the visa.

majke 12y ago
I had very similar experience, but was able to convince the immigration officer that Hacker School has nothing to do with Hackers nor Schools (which require F1 visas). That was a fun experience and added to the charm of the original name :)
- jamii 12y ago
  I had no problems at all. I would be interested in the correlation between rejection and skin colour.
  - briandear 12y ago
    Skin color has nothing to do with visa rejections. There are thousands of visas issued each day in all sorts of "dark skinned" countries. The issue is if the person is likely to overstay their visa. Do they have a job? A family? A bank account? Own property? Have other compelling reasons to return to their home country. If they are young, unemployed and single without many other resources; a denial is likely, for obvious reasons.
    - throwaway344 12y ago
      I think the GP is saying that they wonder if an equivalent Northern European with identical stats would have been rejected. They're not disputing the fact that some white people get denied, but rather that they get denied less than other groups.
      - Thrymr 12y ago
        Of course, that's baked into the system, since most European countries are part of the visa waiver program and citizens don't require a visa to enter the US.
      - briandear 12y ago
        That's a very hard allegation to prove. For example, nearly 100% of Indian visa applicants are brown skinned. Nearly 100% of African applicants have dark skin. The skin color isn't the reason for denials, it's the country of origin, the propensity for people of those countries to overstay along with the personal resources of the applicant. A visa applicant from Bangladesh is going to be denied much more frequently than a visa applicant from Serbia. Not because Serbians are lighter skinned, but because statistically, Bangladeshis are more likely to overstay. There's not much personal appearance bias in the consular equations. Also, visa approvals and denials are reviewed by a supervisor -- the State Department is among the most excessively politically correct agencies around. They go out of their way to ensure fairness. I don't agree with all of their decisions of course, but race has minimal if any influence. If you want to see some "proof" of this, look at the rate of visa denials for Albania (mostly white skinned people) -- 42% denied. Compared to Zimbabwe with only a 22% denial. The "white skins get denied less because of racism" meme is not based on any sort of data, facts or anything resembling a statistically valid statement. It's just typical nonsense. http://www.languageinternational.com/high-risk-countries http://www.languageinternational.com/high-risk-countries
        throwaway344 12y ago
        Yeah, I was just trying to communicate the parent's argument. I appreciate your introduction of actual numbers.
- briandear 12y ago
  Actually, Hacker School is vocational and requires an "M" visa. But, Hacker School isn't a Student and Exchange Visitor Program certified school. So they can't sponsor visas. Which would explain exactly why denials would be happening. The purpose of the stay is "study" but the visa type is "tourist." That's the reason for rejections. It isn't the school name that creates the problem, it's the mismatched purpose of trip/visa type. I'm not sure why you'd be convincing the Immigration Officer of anything, assuming you were at the port of entry with a valid visa. If you were trying to get the visa, then that would be a Consular Officer. There's a lot more that goes into visa issuance than the name "Hacker School." One of the big things would be proof of adequate funds plus a compelling reason to return home. Essentially, you have to convince the consular officer that you don't intend to violate your visa.
  - nicholasjbs 12y ago
    "Actually, Hacker School is vocational and requires an "M" visa." This is not true. See my response elsewhere on HN (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9265755 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9265755), but the tl;dr is: We've confirmed with immigration lawyers that it's perfectly legitimate for people to come on visitor visas. A couple of people have had their visa requests denied (not because of anything specific to us but because of concerns that they would stay beyond 90 days), but no one has been rejected at the border, though some people have had a long and hard time explaining what "hacker" means to the border guards.
    - briandear 12y ago
      My question is why would they even mention "hacker?"
  - tricolon 12y ago
    > I'm not sure why you'd be convincing the Immigration Officer of anything, assuming you were at the port of entry with a valid visa. Because immigration officers can and will deny a person entry if it is believed they will violate the terms of their visa. Even if the consulate and USCIS has approved you in good faith, an immigration officer has the right to reject you for any reason. I've had trick questions asked of me upon entry. I've had to make awkward small talk about key topics. They look for red flags and inconsistencies. I've also had officers essentially just wave me through.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
briandear 12y ago
He wasn't denied because of "Hacker School." He was likely denied because the odds where (in the opinion of the consular officer,) that the no-job, fresh graduate would have attempted to get a job in the United States. Especially since Hacker School themselves say that they are funded from job placements.

majke 12y ago

I had very similar experience, but was able to convince the immigration officer that Hacker School has nothing to do with Hackers nor Schools (which require F1 visas). That was a fun experience and added to the charm of the original name :)

jamii 12y ago
I had no problems at all. I would be interested in the correlation between rejection and skin colour.
- briandear 12y ago
  Skin color has nothing to do with visa rejections. There are thousands of visas issued each day in all sorts of "dark skinned" countries. The issue is if the person is likely to overstay their visa. Do they have a job? A family? A bank account? Own property? Have other compelling reasons to return to their home country. If they are young, unemployed and single without many other resources; a denial is likely, for obvious reasons.
  - throwaway344 12y ago
    I think the GP is saying that they wonder if an equivalent Northern European with identical stats would have been rejected. They're not disputing the fact that some white people get denied, but rather that they get denied less than other groups.
    - Thrymr 12y ago
      Of course, that's baked into the system, since most European countries are part of the visa waiver program and citizens don't require a visa to enter the US.
    - briandear 12y ago
      That's a very hard allegation to prove. For example, nearly 100% of Indian visa applicants are brown skinned. Nearly 100% of African applicants have dark skin. The skin color isn't the reason for denials, it's the country of origin, the propensity for people of those countries to overstay along with the personal resources of the applicant. A visa applicant from Bangladesh is going to be denied much more frequently than a visa applicant from Serbia. Not because Serbians are lighter skinned, but because statistically, Bangladeshis are more likely to overstay. There's not much personal appearance bias in the consular equations. Also, visa approvals and denials are reviewed by a supervisor -- the State Department is among the most excessively politically correct agencies around. They go out of their way to ensure fairness. I don't agree with all of their decisions of course, but race has minimal if any influence. If you want to see some "proof" of this, look at the rate of visa denials for Albania (mostly white skinned people) -- 42% denied. Compared to Zimbabwe with only a 22% denial. The "white skins get denied less because of racism" meme is not based on any sort of data, facts or anything resembling a statistically valid statement. It's just typical nonsense. http://www.languageinternational.com/high-risk-countries http://www.languageinternational.com/high-risk-countries
      - throwaway344 12y ago
        Yeah, I was just trying to communicate the parent's argument. I appreciate your introduction of actual numbers.
briandear 12y ago
Actually, Hacker School is vocational and requires an "M" visa. But, Hacker School isn't a Student and Exchange Visitor Program certified school. So they can't sponsor visas. Which would explain exactly why denials would be happening. The purpose of the stay is "study" but the visa type is "tourist." That's the reason for rejections. It isn't the school name that creates the problem, it's the mismatched purpose of trip/visa type. I'm not sure why you'd be convincing the Immigration Officer of anything, assuming you were at the port of entry with a valid visa. If you were trying to get the visa, then that would be a Consular Officer. There's a lot more that goes into visa issuance than the name "Hacker School." One of the big things would be proof of adequate funds plus a compelling reason to return home. Essentially, you have to convince the consular officer that you don't intend to violate your visa.
- nicholasjbs 12y ago
  "Actually, Hacker School is vocational and requires an "M" visa." This is not true. See my response elsewhere on HN (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9265755 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9265755), but the tl;dr is: We've confirmed with immigration lawyers that it's perfectly legitimate for people to come on visitor visas. A couple of people have had their visa requests denied (not because of anything specific to us but because of concerns that they would stay beyond 90 days), but no one has been rejected at the border, though some people have had a long and hard time explaining what "hacker" means to the border guards.
  - briandear 12y ago
    My question is why would they even mention "hacker?"
- tricolon 12y ago
  > I'm not sure why you'd be convincing the Immigration Officer of anything, assuming you were at the port of entry with a valid visa. Because immigration officers can and will deny a person entry if it is believed they will violate the terms of their visa. Even if the consulate and USCIS has approved you in good faith, an immigration officer has the right to reject you for any reason. I've had trick questions asked of me upon entry. I've had to make awkward small talk about key topics. They look for red flags and inconsistencies. I've also had officers essentially just wave me through.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

briandear 12y ago

He wasn't denied because of "Hacker School." He was likely denied because the odds where (in the opinion of the consular officer,) that the no-job, fresh graduate would have attempted to get a job in the United States. Especially since Hacker School themselves say that they are funded from job placements.