4 ms·

It doesn't frighten me. It won't go dark forever. Just as there was no 13.5bn years of darkness before I was born. There will be no qualia of time. I think att

by sago 12y ago

It doesn't frighten me. It won't go dark forever. Just as there was no 13.5bn years of darkness before I was born. There will be no qualia of time. I think attitudes are changing. The campaign to be able to determine how and when we die is shaping up to be a significant battle for a fundamental civil right. I think we'll win it. Whether it is soon enough for my wife to avoid threat of prosecution if she is with me when I choose to act, I don't know. I suspect not.

baddox 12y ago
The 13.5 billion years of darkness before I was born is frightening as well, but it's done and over with, plus it's way shorter than the upcoming darkness.
- visarga 12y ago
  The universe itself is the life you have, it doesn't die, just makes more conscious entities. Life itself will not die with me, but go on forever. We just need to think large when contemplating death.
  - sireat 12y ago
    What is your reasoning behind thinking that life will go on forever? Life - conscious life with qualia. Even for allowing for unobservable universe that is not given either. There is no guarantee that there will be more conscious entities say 200 years from now.
themartorana 12y ago
Right - it's that ceasing to be, as before I was, that scares me. Now that I have existed, I like it much better than before. That said, that's my hangup, and has nothing to do with your right to choose to die with dignity. It's silly to me that you could choose to jump off a bridge, but can't choose something much less gruesome without fear that your or a loved one might find themselves tangled up legally.
- sago 12y ago
  I know this is getting OT, so apologies. And thank you for the second paragraph. But I'm interested in the first. To me it doesn't seem like I will cease to be, in any meaningful way. To cease to have something is to have it at some point but not another. I will never experience not being. So I find it hard to worry about that. Of course I enjoy being, but it's not like I would rather be than not be, because the latter would suck. So I find your first paragraph strange. And therefore interesting. [edit, add:] I scan sympathise with the point made about others: I'd very very much rather my wife was than ceased to be. But me? Only for other people's sake. I can't imagine how it could possibly make any difference to me. I can't even imagine the idea that I'd miss out on all those good experiences I'd have if I lived. Because again that just presupposes that I'd be missing something.
  - themartorana 12y ago
    I never said it was a rational feeling :) I don't know the right way to explain the feeling. I think it's mostly the same sadness that one experiences when anything particularly wonderful comes to an end. I have known loss in a variety of ways, and I imagine dying taps in to that same idea of mourning. Something that I enjoy terribly must end, I have to say goodbye to not only a terrific experience - but to experience itself. It's mostly the anticipation of the thing, not so much the thing. I'm sure once I'm dead I won't care so much that I'm dead. I just care now that one day I will be. And thus concludes my inability to lend written word to irrational emotion. Edit: as I sit here reflecting now, I wonder if part of it isn't the fear of regret - of not having taken full advantage, of not having loved enough or having wasted time on things actually inconsequential. It's also making me wonder if I already know that I'll have those regrets and maybe should make a few changes. Tonight got deeper that I expected it to...
    - dhimes 12y ago
      "You" die every moment, and in the next moment a new "you" arises. The "you" now is different than the "you" five minutes ago- cells have been born and died, you've exchanged particles with your surroundings, your thoughts have changed, and so on. There is no "you" in the sense of an unchanging "being." It's impossible for "you" to exist for more than a moment. On the other hand the "you"s that have arisen have left an indelible footprint of their existence on the universe. It's impossible for those footprints to go away. They are immortal. That is not to say it is irrational to grieve your (our) unavoidable lack of being "alive," but it helps to understand clearly what we are grieving. It's not the ceasing of the existence of "you"- that happens every moment. It is the lack of the next arising. These are largely Buddhist thoughts FWIW.
the_gipsy 12y ago
> It doesn't frighten me. I don't think that's entirely true - it's just that all functioning members of society displace or ignore their fear of death with some method. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_anxiety_%28psychology%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_anxiety_%28psychology%29
- Ntrails 12y ago
  Why in gods name would I be frightened of oblivion? Dying is terrifying, because it comes with implications of suffering. No longer existing is simply enthralling. I will simply be gone. A just reward for making it through a lifetime imo.
  - the_gipsy 12y ago
    I can't tell you why the thought of ceasing to exist would be frightening. It simply is to me, and I believe to most people. And most people, including me, ignore it and focus on the joys of life. There are of course different degrees of this displacement, some people may still acknowledge the idea but others might completely convince themselves that there is nothing to be scared of - or maybe there really is a way to enjoy a finite life span. Mind you that this a very intimate and subjective topic, and I am not saying that you are fooling yourself, but from someone who is indeed scared of death (the end of life), it does seem plausible.
    - Luc 12y ago
      It's perfect, since nobody can ever prove they're not fooling themselves. Perhaps I'll keep fooling myself until I die and die a fool.
    - Ntrails 12y ago
      Life is not [just/only] full of joys, but of obligations, troubles, and pain. Those who enjoy life are doubtless scared of losing it - it's foolish to assume that everyone does though. Nor can such a position be swept away as illness or irrationality. It is neither. If someone gave me a way out right now that caused nobody for whom I care any pain, I'd take it. If I am honest I reckon I'd probably wonder about "what's next" for a good few minutes before saying yes...

by sago 12y ago

baddox 12y ago

The 13.5 billion years of darkness before I was born is frightening as well, but it's done and over with, plus it's way shorter than the upcoming darkness.

visarga 12y ago
The universe itself is the life you have, it doesn't die, just makes more conscious entities. Life itself will not die with me, but go on forever. We just need to think large when contemplating death.
- sireat 12y ago
  What is your reasoning behind thinking that life will go on forever? Life - conscious life with qualia. Even for allowing for unobservable universe that is not given either. There is no guarantee that there will be more conscious entities say 200 years from now.

themartorana 12y ago

Right - it's that ceasing to be, as before I was, that scares me. Now that I have existed, I like it much better than before. That said, that's my hangup, and has nothing to do with your right to choose to die with dignity. It's silly to me that you could choose to jump off a bridge, but can't choose something much less gruesome without fear that your or a loved one might find themselves tangled up legally.

sago 12y ago
I know this is getting OT, so apologies. And thank you for the second paragraph. But I'm interested in the first. To me it doesn't seem like I will cease to be, in any meaningful way. To cease to have something is to have it at some point but not another. I will never experience not being. So I find it hard to worry about that. Of course I enjoy being, but it's not like I would rather be than not be, because the latter would suck. So I find your first paragraph strange. And therefore interesting. [edit, add:] I scan sympathise with the point made about others: I'd very very much rather my wife was than ceased to be. But me? Only for other people's sake. I can't imagine how it could possibly make any difference to me. I can't even imagine the idea that I'd miss out on all those good experiences I'd have if I lived. Because again that just presupposes that I'd be missing something.
- themartorana 12y ago
  I never said it was a rational feeling :) I don't know the right way to explain the feeling. I think it's mostly the same sadness that one experiences when anything particularly wonderful comes to an end. I have known loss in a variety of ways, and I imagine dying taps in to that same idea of mourning. Something that I enjoy terribly must end, I have to say goodbye to not only a terrific experience - but to experience itself. It's mostly the anticipation of the thing, not so much the thing. I'm sure once I'm dead I won't care so much that I'm dead. I just care now that one day I will be. And thus concludes my inability to lend written word to irrational emotion. Edit: as I sit here reflecting now, I wonder if part of it isn't the fear of regret - of not having taken full advantage, of not having loved enough or having wasted time on things actually inconsequential. It's also making me wonder if I already know that I'll have those regrets and maybe should make a few changes. Tonight got deeper that I expected it to...
  - dhimes 12y ago
    "You" die every moment, and in the next moment a new "you" arises. The "you" now is different than the "you" five minutes ago- cells have been born and died, you've exchanged particles with your surroundings, your thoughts have changed, and so on. There is no "you" in the sense of an unchanging "being." It's impossible for "you" to exist for more than a moment. On the other hand the "you"s that have arisen have left an indelible footprint of their existence on the universe. It's impossible for those footprints to go away. They are immortal. That is not to say it is irrational to grieve your (our) unavoidable lack of being "alive," but it helps to understand clearly what we are grieving. It's not the ceasing of the existence of "you"- that happens every moment. It is the lack of the next arising. These are largely Buddhist thoughts FWIW.

the_gipsy 12y ago

> It doesn't frighten me. I don't think that's entirely true - it's just that all functioning members of society displace or ignore their fear of death with some method. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_anxiety_%28psychology%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_anxiety_%28psychology%29

Ntrails 12y ago
Why in gods name would I be frightened of oblivion? Dying is terrifying, because it comes with implications of suffering. No longer existing is simply enthralling. I will simply be gone. A just reward for making it through a lifetime imo.
- the_gipsy 12y ago
  I can't tell you why the thought of ceasing to exist would be frightening. It simply is to me, and I believe to most people. And most people, including me, ignore it and focus on the joys of life. There are of course different degrees of this displacement, some people may still acknowledge the idea but others might completely convince themselves that there is nothing to be scared of - or maybe there really is a way to enjoy a finite life span. Mind you that this a very intimate and subjective topic, and I am not saying that you are fooling yourself, but from someone who is indeed scared of death (the end of life), it does seem plausible.
  - Luc 12y ago
    It's perfect, since nobody can ever prove they're not fooling themselves. Perhaps I'll keep fooling myself until I die and die a fool.
  - Ntrails 12y ago
    Life is not [just/only] full of joys, but of obligations, troubles, and pain. Those who enjoy life are doubtless scared of losing it - it's foolish to assume that everyone does though. Nor can such a position be swept away as illness or irrationality. It is neither. If someone gave me a way out right now that caused nobody for whom I care any pain, I'd take it. If I am honest I reckon I'd probably wonder about "what's next" for a good few minutes before saying yes...