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You can see Derren Brown using several of these techniques here, for real-world gain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?

You can see Derren Brown using several of these techniques here, for real-world gain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E

detrino 12y ago
This is obviously staged.
- amirmc 12y ago
  Why? Because you find it unfathomable that people would do this? Do you also believe that people never fall for 419 scams? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/419_scams http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/419_scams
  - balabaster 12y ago
    With the amount these come up, it becomes increasingly difficult not to f* with them. You know they're a scam, but when they come up, it's impossible not to fantasize about your ability to scam the scammer. Who is better? Could you do it?
  - detrino 12y ago
    Yes, it is unfathomable that people act like this. This stunt presents itself as an easy to understand trick that works like magic in making people do things like give you their wallet. This is appealing to viewers who can follow what's going on and can feel a sense of accomplishment in learning a new trick. I'm not saying this man was given a script or told exactly what to do. But I would say he was certainly part of a casting call and was "on the job" when this was filmed. The cameras were probably not even hidden. 419 scams are entirely different. They are typically sent out en-masse precisely because most people are not vulnerable to the scam. Also, they appeal to people's greed, the victims believe they will be getting a large sum of money for very little effort. On top of that, the victims are usually worked over for a period of time by seasoned con-artists before sending any money. There is no simple trick like here like handing someone a water bottle or saying a magic phrase.
    - bentcorner 12y ago
      > 419 scams are entirely different. I don't think they're entirely different. 419 scams mass e-mail people and are tailored to pull in the kind of people that fall for 419 scams. Likewise, the target of this video here was likely selected by the magician as someone who could have been fooled (walking alone, older, distracted, wallet in front pocket), and also cherry-picked as a video example.
      - collyw 12y ago
        First time I saw one I was sceptical but tempted. After a few you realise how obvious it is. (I am assuming a 419 scam is along the lines of the Nigerian prince wants to send you money - I haven't heard the term before).
    - TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
      It's possible it was staged. Part of the fun of Derren Brown is he will sometimes completely lie about how a trick was performed. For example, when he "predicted" the lottery numbers.
    - thomasahle 12y ago
      Seems pretty realistic to me. At most they probably did a number of tries and included the most successful.
    - pbhjpbhj 12y ago
      >This is appealing to viewers who can follow what's going on and can feel a sense of accomplishment in learning a new trick. // I don't really think that is true. Unless it's explained to them I don't see most viewers picking up on the subtly touches and strange hand/wrist holding, the body language mirroring, the use of the water bottle to distract, the placing and reinforcement of the suggestion? Personally I think it appeals because it looks entirely like magic - "these are not the droids you're looking for" - to most observers the first time they watch. For me a great illusion is one where I can't see how it's done without at least watching a few times. There are definitely some magicians using stooges, Dynamo is one who's pretty easy to spot, but if Brown is doing so then he's done really well to hide it as I'm sure the major news outlets would pay well for a person from one of his shows who could expose details to show it was a sham. Brown's mix of NLP/hypnotism techniques with standard illusion and misdirection is what makes him so entertaining.
- DanBC 12y ago
  This is British tv. They'd have to include a disclaimer if it was staged.
  - deleted 12y ago
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  - detrino 12y ago
    How do you explain this then? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPhVqA2KAbM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPhVqA2KAbM
    - baby 12y ago
      video is blocked in france.
      - agumonkey 12y ago
        Proxy works fine https://tx.proxfree.com/permalink.php?url=s54aaHA%2FaGsaD5vHs0QZLcUclS%2FcUxrnNZwEMCiA0I%2BXDX0w3E%2Fbpjc9%2B%2BHN4onMPu8YOCgK0zV1ixxDl27AMA%3D%3D&bit=1 https://tx.proxfree.com/permalink.php?url=s54aaHA%2FaGsaD5vH... Not easier to believe than the wallet steal.
    - CamperBob2 12y ago
      Total bullshit (and I guess that's your point, because it wasn't labeled as such). The first thing the guy's companions would have done would be to grab him and shake him awake. Instead they just stand around while Brown emerges from the back room, exactly as though they'd been asked to. And then Brown starts issuing orders for what amounts to a kidnapping? Maybe it gets more believable after the four-minute mark, but that's where I tuned out. The wallet-steal trick I believe, because it only involved one mark. All Brown had to do was film dozens of attempts until it worked. Nothing new there -- Zimbardo and Milgram showed that if somebody refuses an order to do something silly, dangerous, or immoral, all you have to do is ask somebody else. It won't be long before you find a willing stooge. On the other hand, it might take months before you find an entire group of still-sober people (who just walked into a pub) who will play along perfectly with a complicated trick.
driverdan 12y ago
Derren Brown uses a lot of misdirection, including making you believe that he's using psychological techniques when he's actually doing traditional magic tricks. He mixes psychology, hypnosis, and traditional magic in such a way that it's tough to tell exactly what he's doing.

You can see Derren Brown using several of these techniques here, for real-world gain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdYgEDSm7E

detrino 12y ago

This is obviously staged.

amirmc 12y ago
Why? Because you find it unfathomable that people would do this? Do you also believe that people never fall for 419 scams? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/419_scams http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/419_scams
- balabaster 12y ago
  With the amount these come up, it becomes increasingly difficult not to f* with them. You know they're a scam, but when they come up, it's impossible not to fantasize about your ability to scam the scammer. Who is better? Could you do it?
- detrino 12y ago
  Yes, it is unfathomable that people act like this. This stunt presents itself as an easy to understand trick that works like magic in making people do things like give you their wallet. This is appealing to viewers who can follow what's going on and can feel a sense of accomplishment in learning a new trick. I'm not saying this man was given a script or told exactly what to do. But I would say he was certainly part of a casting call and was "on the job" when this was filmed. The cameras were probably not even hidden. 419 scams are entirely different. They are typically sent out en-masse precisely because most people are not vulnerable to the scam. Also, they appeal to people's greed, the victims believe they will be getting a large sum of money for very little effort. On top of that, the victims are usually worked over for a period of time by seasoned con-artists before sending any money. There is no simple trick like here like handing someone a water bottle or saying a magic phrase.
  - bentcorner 12y ago
    > 419 scams are entirely different. I don't think they're entirely different. 419 scams mass e-mail people and are tailored to pull in the kind of people that fall for 419 scams. Likewise, the target of this video here was likely selected by the magician as someone who could have been fooled (walking alone, older, distracted, wallet in front pocket), and also cherry-picked as a video example.
    - collyw 12y ago
      First time I saw one I was sceptical but tempted. After a few you realise how obvious it is. (I am assuming a 419 scam is along the lines of the Nigerian prince wants to send you money - I haven't heard the term before).
  - TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
    It's possible it was staged. Part of the fun of Derren Brown is he will sometimes completely lie about how a trick was performed. For example, when he "predicted" the lottery numbers.
  - thomasahle 12y ago
    Seems pretty realistic to me. At most they probably did a number of tries and included the most successful.
  - pbhjpbhj 12y ago
    >This is appealing to viewers who can follow what's going on and can feel a sense of accomplishment in learning a new trick. // I don't really think that is true. Unless it's explained to them I don't see most viewers picking up on the subtly touches and strange hand/wrist holding, the body language mirroring, the use of the water bottle to distract, the placing and reinforcement of the suggestion? Personally I think it appeals because it looks entirely like magic - "these are not the droids you're looking for" - to most observers the first time they watch. For me a great illusion is one where I can't see how it's done without at least watching a few times. There are definitely some magicians using stooges, Dynamo is one who's pretty easy to spot, but if Brown is doing so then he's done really well to hide it as I'm sure the major news outlets would pay well for a person from one of his shows who could expose details to show it was a sham. Brown's mix of NLP/hypnotism techniques with standard illusion and misdirection is what makes him so entertaining.
DanBC 12y ago
This is British tv. They'd have to include a disclaimer if it was staged.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- detrino 12y ago
  How do you explain this then? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPhVqA2KAbM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPhVqA2KAbM
  - baby 12y ago
    video is blocked in france.
    - agumonkey 12y ago
      Proxy works fine https://tx.proxfree.com/permalink.php?url=s54aaHA%2FaGsaD5vHs0QZLcUclS%2FcUxrnNZwEMCiA0I%2BXDX0w3E%2Fbpjc9%2B%2BHN4onMPu8YOCgK0zV1ixxDl27AMA%3D%3D&bit=1 https://tx.proxfree.com/permalink.php?url=s54aaHA%2FaGsaD5vH... Not easier to believe than the wallet steal.
  - CamperBob2 12y ago
    Total bullshit (and I guess that's your point, because it wasn't labeled as such). The first thing the guy's companions would have done would be to grab him and shake him awake. Instead they just stand around while Brown emerges from the back room, exactly as though they'd been asked to. And then Brown starts issuing orders for what amounts to a kidnapping? Maybe it gets more believable after the four-minute mark, but that's where I tuned out. The wallet-steal trick I believe, because it only involved one mark. All Brown had to do was film dozens of attempts until it worked. Nothing new there -- Zimbardo and Milgram showed that if somebody refuses an order to do something silly, dangerous, or immoral, all you have to do is ask somebody else. It won't be long before you find a willing stooge. On the other hand, it might take months before you find an entire group of still-sober people (who just walked into a pub) who will play along perfectly with a complicated trick.

driverdan 12y ago

Derren Brown uses a lot of misdirection, including making you believe that he's using psychological techniques when he's actually doing traditional magic tricks. He mixes psychology, hypnosis, and traditional magic in such a way that it's tough to tell exactly what he's doing.