7 ms·

Tangential story: I live in Norway where neon signs are basically unknown (or at least, were back then). When I was a kid and visited the continent for the firs

by Aqwis 12y ago

Tangential story: I live in Norway where neon signs are basically unknown (or at least, were back then). When I was a kid and visited the continent for the first time, I recall being struck by how common neon signs were, even in "serious" establishments like drug stores. At the time, already the pretentious aesthete, I quickly decided that the popularity of neon signs on the continent was a sign of poor taste. After reading this article, I wonder why these kinds of differences between countries exist. In Norway it would almost be gauche to open a brick-and-mortar business without first hiring a designer to create your visual expression, but other countries seem to like neon signs (and the like) better or alternatively just don't care as much about the visual design of a store's sign.

jeswin 12y ago
> After reading this article, I wonder why these kinds of differences between countries exist. The US has high per-capita income (lower than Norway, but not by much), but that average hides a lot of income disparity. This percolates to other disciplines as well; lots of highly educated people but also a large disinterested population; plenty of artistic talent but also a majority which is not able to fully appreciate aesthetics. Some level of homogeneity (which is the true form of equality) is perhaps a characteristic of sophisticated future societies. Add: Among wealthy nations, Norway, Finland, Sweden and Japan sit at the bottom of income disparity indexes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equ.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equ....
- nostromo 12y ago
  Norway is homogenous in part because it's small. Its population is a touch larger than Alabama's. I imagine it's easy to be homogenous when you're small with a low immigrant population. I'm not sure it's because they are more sophisticated than other countries.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- eru 12y ago
  If one is making those comments about homogeneity and sophistication, it's always interesting to look at small but diverse Singapore.
- Svip 12y ago
  You can also turn that income equality into something useful: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Social_mobility_is_lower_in_more_unequal_countries.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Social_m...
  - proveanegative 12y ago
    Isn't the relationship in the graph simply the result of how income inequality and social mobility are defined? The lower the income inequality the less you need to earn (relative to the baseline income) to move up the social ladder (defined in terms of income).
    - Svip 12y ago
      It is usually a strong welfare states that helps children of lower classes achieve the same as those of upper classes.
      - brational 12y ago
        But the strong welfare state reduces the spread between lower and upper classes and reduces the delta required to be "mobile".
- Turing_Machine 12y ago
  Just because someone's taste differs from yours doesn't make them "not able to fully appreciate aesthetics".
  - federico3 12y ago
    Sigh.
lobster_johnson 12y ago
I think you may be underestimating the amount of neon signs in Norway! It's no longer being used very much, but I can think of tons of signs in Oslo and in the industrial parks in the Oslo suburbs such as Lysaker and Sandvika, going back to the 1980s and up to recently and even today. You must have been to Karl Johans gate and Stortingsgata in Oslo? For many years had quite a lot of neon signs [1]. The big blue neon Aftenposten logo is still there [2], I believe, as is the old Freia logo above Egertorget [3]. Cinemas like Saga, Colosseum and Eldorado had neon logos until just a few years ago. Peppes pizza is another one. Tons of neon. Small neon signs in shop windows (like beer or soda ads) like you often see in the U.S. are/were very uncommon, however. But those tacky animated LED "we're open" signs? Those are everywhere. Finally, is neon itself tacky? I don't think it is at all [4]. [1] http://media.mediatemple.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/uploader/images/signs/oslo-neon/full_osloneon-copy.jpg http://media.mediatemple.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/u... [2] https://www.google.com/maps/place/A%2FS+Stortingsgaten+28,+Stortingsgata+28,+0161+Oslo,+Norway/@59.914486,10.732622,18z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x46416e7e095218cd:0xf8c999d5f690161a https://www.google.com/maps/place/A%2FS+Stortingsgaten+28,+S... [3] http://www.viewolux.com/img/s2/v1/p184160343-3.jpg http://www.viewolux.com/img/s2/v1/p184160343-3.jpg [4] http://www.elektrovakuum.no/wp-content/uploads/DSC7393_1280px-390x250.jpg http://www.elektrovakuum.no/wp-content/uploads/DSC7393_1280p...
- morsch 12y ago
  Maybe the grandparent is talking about the illuminated open sign (since that's what the article is about), which from what I've seen of it is comparatively rare in Europe. I certainly wouldn't have described it as "ubiquitous, functional, and necessary", as baddox did in another comment to this HN story.
  - eitally 12y ago
    I think that's largely attributed to differences in consumer/commercial culture between Europe & the US. In the US, it's entirely likely you might find shops and restaurants in a strip mall that have closing times varying by as much as several hours (a book store might close at 6pm, but the restaurant next to it is open until 10pm, and the hair salon next to that is open until 9pm). Being able to quickly glance and see what's open is a huge benefit.
legulere 12y ago
I'm from Germany and when I went south for holiday the neon/led lights for drug stores also threw me off. They give off a feel of untrustworthiness to me.
- toothbrush 12y ago
  Ya, the worst i've seen is huge flashing (like, stroboscopically, i kid you not) green crosses for drug stores here in France... There are a few traffic intersections where, after having lived here a few years, i still regularly confuse a far-off (3 blocks) green pharmacy sign with a green traffic light that applies to me. Apart from being highly fugly, i would venture that it's almost dangerously distracting. It seems pharmacies in particular are offenders in my city, the rest is all rather subdued (luckily).
  - malka 12y ago
    French here. I'm pretty sure some of them can trigger seizures, given how aggressive the strobing is.
    - toothbrush 12y ago
      Ha, good business model?
  - zyxley 12y ago
    Hah, I just came here specifically to comment about this. As an American tourist, the popularity of those garishly animated pharmacie signs in Paris was one of the subtly weirdest things about a number of countries in Europe that I've visited. I didn't see them anywhere outside of France, and they were so bright and distracting that I seriously wondered how they weren't a traffic hazard.
- joezydeco 12y ago
  Don't a lot of apothekes in Germany still use this neon sign? http://goo.gl/BEQPQ5 http://goo.gl/BEQPQ5
tallanvor 12y ago
I guess you've forgotten about all the signs on the building by the National Theater T-bane entrance. The Freia logo right by parliament is LED, but it's still a good example of that type of advertising. But I certainly don't think it's anything close to gauche to open a store here without hiring a designer. That said, I do see more offices hiring them, but that's not just Norway, it's all over.
jerf 12y ago
"At the time, already the pretentious aesthete, I quickly decided that the popularity of neon signs on the continent was a sign of poor taste." Yeah, in the original article this line really lost me: "Neon is spectacularly flexible and inarguably lovely." And I just had to bail out with a big ol' BS light flashing in my head. This same person writing at the time when neon would have come out would have bitched about them then. And in 30 years when flashing holograms are telling us that shops are open, he'll be writing a paean to how wonderful LED lights were... "They were so physical... you could touch them. Someone had to care enough to hang them up, and find a place on the wall where they fit. They had that irreducibly human touch that let you know a real person had been there, caring, pinning his or her hopes for the success of their business on this sign, this physical object. It humbling to consider what hopes resided in this fragile arrangement of real atoms, instead of mere ethereal light." Can I know that for certain about this specific person? OK, no, not really, but tell me it's not a really good guess.

by Aqwis 12y ago

jeswin 12y ago

> After reading this article, I wonder why these kinds of differences between countries exist. The US has high per-capita income (lower than Norway, but not by much), but that average hides a lot of income disparity. This percolates to other disciplines as well; lots of highly educated people but also a large disinterested population; plenty of artistic talent but also a majority which is not able to fully appreciate aesthetics. Some level of homogeneity (which is the true form of equality) is perhaps a characteristic of sophisticated future societies. Add: Among wealthy nations, Norway, Finland, Sweden and Japan sit at the bottom of income disparity indexes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equ.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equ....

nostromo 12y ago
Norway is homogenous in part because it's small. Its population is a touch larger than Alabama's. I imagine it's easy to be homogenous when you're small with a low immigrant population. I'm not sure it's because they are more sophisticated than other countries.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
eru 12y ago
If one is making those comments about homogeneity and sophistication, it's always interesting to look at small but diverse Singapore.
Svip 12y ago
You can also turn that income equality into something useful: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Social_mobility_is_lower_in_more_unequal_countries.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Social_m...
- proveanegative 12y ago
  Isn't the relationship in the graph simply the result of how income inequality and social mobility are defined? The lower the income inequality the less you need to earn (relative to the baseline income) to move up the social ladder (defined in terms of income).
  - Svip 12y ago
    It is usually a strong welfare states that helps children of lower classes achieve the same as those of upper classes.
    - brational 12y ago
      But the strong welfare state reduces the spread between lower and upper classes and reduces the delta required to be "mobile".
Turing_Machine 12y ago
Just because someone's taste differs from yours doesn't make them "not able to fully appreciate aesthetics".
- federico3 12y ago
  Sigh.

lobster_johnson 12y ago

I think you may be underestimating the amount of neon signs in Norway! It's no longer being used very much, but I can think of tons of signs in Oslo and in the industrial parks in the Oslo suburbs such as Lysaker and Sandvika, going back to the 1980s and up to recently and even today. You must have been to Karl Johans gate and Stortingsgata in Oslo? For many years had quite a lot of neon signs [1]. The big blue neon Aftenposten logo is still there [2], I believe, as is the old Freia logo above Egertorget [3]. Cinemas like Saga, Colosseum and Eldorado had neon logos until just a few years ago. Peppes pizza is another one. Tons of neon. Small neon signs in shop windows (like beer or soda ads) like you often see in the U.S. are/were very uncommon, however. But those tacky animated LED "we're open" signs? Those are everywhere. Finally, is neon itself tacky? I don't think it is at all [4]. [1] http://media.mediatemple.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/uploader/images/signs/oslo-neon/full_osloneon-copy.jpg http://media.mediatemple.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/u... [2] https://www.google.com/maps/place/A%2FS+Stortingsgaten+28,+Stortingsgata+28,+0161+Oslo,+Norway/@59.914486,10.732622,18z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x46416e7e095218cd:0xf8c999d5f690161a https://www.google.com/maps/place/A%2FS+Stortingsgaten+28,+S... [3] http://www.viewolux.com/img/s2/v1/p184160343-3.jpg http://www.viewolux.com/img/s2/v1/p184160343-3.jpg [4] http://www.elektrovakuum.no/wp-content/uploads/DSC7393_1280px-390x250.jpg http://www.elektrovakuum.no/wp-content/uploads/DSC7393_1280p...

morsch 12y ago
Maybe the grandparent is talking about the illuminated open sign (since that's what the article is about), which from what I've seen of it is comparatively rare in Europe. I certainly wouldn't have described it as "ubiquitous, functional, and necessary", as baddox did in another comment to this HN story.
- eitally 12y ago
  I think that's largely attributed to differences in consumer/commercial culture between Europe & the US. In the US, it's entirely likely you might find shops and restaurants in a strip mall that have closing times varying by as much as several hours (a book store might close at 6pm, but the restaurant next to it is open until 10pm, and the hair salon next to that is open until 9pm). Being able to quickly glance and see what's open is a huge benefit.

legulere 12y ago

I'm from Germany and when I went south for holiday the neon/led lights for drug stores also threw me off. They give off a feel of untrustworthiness to me.

toothbrush 12y ago
Ya, the worst i've seen is huge flashing (like, stroboscopically, i kid you not) green crosses for drug stores here in France... There are a few traffic intersections where, after having lived here a few years, i still regularly confuse a far-off (3 blocks) green pharmacy sign with a green traffic light that applies to me. Apart from being highly fugly, i would venture that it's almost dangerously distracting. It seems pharmacies in particular are offenders in my city, the rest is all rather subdued (luckily).
- malka 12y ago
  French here. I'm pretty sure some of them can trigger seizures, given how aggressive the strobing is.
  - toothbrush 12y ago
    Ha, good business model?
- zyxley 12y ago
  Hah, I just came here specifically to comment about this. As an American tourist, the popularity of those garishly animated pharmacie signs in Paris was one of the subtly weirdest things about a number of countries in Europe that I've visited. I didn't see them anywhere outside of France, and they were so bright and distracting that I seriously wondered how they weren't a traffic hazard.
joezydeco 12y ago
Don't a lot of apothekes in Germany still use this neon sign? http://goo.gl/BEQPQ5 http://goo.gl/BEQPQ5

tallanvor 12y ago

I guess you've forgotten about all the signs on the building by the National Theater T-bane entrance. The Freia logo right by parliament is LED, but it's still a good example of that type of advertising. But I certainly don't think it's anything close to gauche to open a store here without hiring a designer. That said, I do see more offices hiring them, but that's not just Norway, it's all over.

jerf 12y ago

"At the time, already the pretentious aesthete, I quickly decided that the popularity of neon signs on the continent was a sign of poor taste." Yeah, in the original article this line really lost me: "Neon is spectacularly flexible and inarguably lovely." And I just had to bail out with a big ol' BS light flashing in my head. This same person writing at the time when neon would have come out would have bitched about them then. And in 30 years when flashing holograms are telling us that shops are open, he'll be writing a paean to how wonderful LED lights were... "They were so physical... you could touch them. Someone had to care enough to hang them up, and find a place on the wall where they fit. They had that irreducibly human touch that let you know a real person had been there, caring, pinning his or her hopes for the success of their business on this sign, this physical object. It humbling to consider what hopes resided in this fragile arrangement of real atoms, instead of mere ethereal light." Can I know that for certain about this specific person? OK, no, not really, but tell me it's not a really good guess.