7 ms·

Burma's capital: a super-sized slice of post-apocalypse suburbia

86 points by Vigier 12y ago

maxwin 12y ago
All the residential houses are quite expensive and only bought by rich people who don't really live there, making it more empty.
Aqwis 12y ago
Reminds me a lot of Pyongyang. Empty, wide roads, few people on the streets, and a whole lot of luxery facilities for the few well-connected.
- peteretep 12y ago
  Myanmar is nothing like North Korea. For a start, you can backpack around most of the cities unrestricted. Yangon, the largest city in Myanmar, is just like any other South East Asian capital, and again, nothing like Pyongyang.
  - nemo 12y ago
    It's only relatively recently that travelers could visit Myanmar (legally). For a very long time it was very much like North Korea - a hermit kingdom ruled by a brutal military junta under international sanctions and completely dependent on China.
    - mark_up 12y ago
      Did you actually confirm that by going there? I ask because what you describe is pretty much how the international media described Fiji in the aftermath of the 2006 coup. Meanwhile it was business as usual in Fiji, with tens of thousands of tourists enjoying their holidays without obstruction, and citizens working and partying just as they were doing prior. When it comes to describing regimes/countries that don't fit the Western democratic ideal, you simply can't trust the international media to give you a fair picture of life on the ground.
    - peteretep 12y ago
      > It's only relatively recently that travelers could visit > Myanmar (legally) That is simply incorrect.
      - nemo 12y ago
        Yes, you're right. I was generalizing about Westerners, rather than all travel. I had been told that while in Thailand years ago, but apparently there were some (complicated) ways for Westerners to get visas in the past.
        peteretep 12y ago
        It's not even really true about Westerners
    - dnial02 12y ago
      Only if you're Westerner. South East Asian can enter Myanmar freely, but Myanmar is the only country that doesn't have free visa for other ASEAN country.
      - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
        Americans never had a problem with entering Myanmar. All you needed was a visa from the embassy in Beijing (you could probably get one at the consulate in Kunming also).
- maxwin 12y ago
  The artificially built capital is kind of creepy. But other cities are not like that at all. It is authentic, culture-rich and very safe to travel.
- WildUtah 12y ago
  "Reminds me a lot of Pyongyang" Or Brasilia. Three cities built on the communist central planning principles of the post-war American suburb reflect, each in its own way, the oppression and alienation that motorcar-oriented planning imposes on humans. [0] There is an alternative to suburban hell. The traditional city humans have loved for thousands of years is still possible. [1] There are even great accessible, affordable examples in Burma and Brazil. In places like North Korea and the USA, the destruction of traditional free ways of life has been more complete. Though if you belong to the powerful and monied elite you might be able to afford to live in the few remaining neighborhoods in Pyongyang or San Francisco where traditional city design from decades ago is grandfathered in. [0] http://kunstler.com/books/the-geography-of-nowhere/ http://kunstler.com/books/the-geography-of-nowhere/ [1] http://www.newworldeconomics.com/archives/2008/072008.html http://www.newworldeconomics.com/archives/2008/072008.html
  - forinti 12y ago
    I beg to differ. Brasilia was built on Modernist principles. It was very much inspired on the work of Le Corbusier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corbusier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corbusier). It has nothing to do with communism.
    - agumonkey 12y ago
      Maybe communist urbanism was inspired by Modernism ?
    - WildUtah 12y ago
      Corbu was all about controlling the details of daily life by top-down commands from central authorities. His ambitions were to wipe out and knock down Paris and replace it with orderly and easily controlled towers and sight lines. Traditional cities with their chaos, entrepreneurship, freedom, variety, and individualism didn't interest him. The tower in the park required hugely expensive (at the time) commitment to motorcars and freeways surrounding and fixing the limits of mobility for the poor and middle class. Centralised government and hierarchical businesses were needed to manage and planned lives of humans in Corbu's city. Everything about Corbu reflected the totalitarian age in which he lived. His dreams are the same as the communists' and merit the same fate.
grecy 12y ago
For many years Myanmar was the sole country on the planet you couldn't drive your own vehicle into.. preventing a trans-europe->se asia trip without shipping your vehicle. That has all changed in the last 12-24 months, and multiple groups have reported it's now possible. http://wikioverland.org/Myanmar http://wikioverland.org/Myanmar (The details are still a little short, but we're getting there) I'm planning my trip now :)
- ma2rten 12y ago
  Why can't you go around Myanmar (China -> Laos -> Thailand)?
  - grecy 12y ago
    You can, but driving your own vehicle in China is extremely expensive, and it's difficult (or impossible) to enter from some countries / borders. Most people end up shipping from India -> Thailand or Malaysia, and it's still cheaper than driving through China. ie. see http://wikioverland.org/China http://wikioverland.org/China the prices have come down a lot lately, but it's still very expensive.
  - lmm 12y ago
    China won't let you into the Tibetan Autonomous Region except as part of an official tour party from within China. You can go around further to the north (I went that way by rail a few years ago), but most people on such a road trip would like to see India (and probably also Nepal), and to then have to go back all the way to possibly cross the border in disputed Kashmir or realistically to Uzbekistan is a bit of a detour to say the least. (Central Asia is fascinating and I do recommend the trip through Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan at some point).
- technomancy 12y ago
  I live on the Thai border with Burma, and while it's possible it's still tricky. The road from the Thai border to Yangon has one lane total (!) so it alternates directions depending on whether it's an even or odd day.
ngoel36 12y ago
I was in Yangon (Rangoon) last weekend - it was nothing like what I've read about Naypyidaw (didn't have the chance to go). So I would recommend not using this to stereotype the entire country. Yangon was beautiful, and ridiculously crowded. It honestly felt like a version of Delhi, down to the horrific traffic. Most impressive was that any sort of data was unavailable on AT&T roaming, but there I was standing at the [real] Shwedagon Pagoda, in a country that hadn't been open to the world until a few years ago, and I had an abundance of free wi-fi to check in to Facebook.
- peteretep 12y ago
  > any sort of data was unavailable on AT&T roaming Telenor SIM cards are cheap and have data
fsloth 12y ago
The characterization "six times the size of New York City" evokes images of area with the same building density. Actually it seems to be quite sparse https://www.google.com/maps/place/Republic+of+the+Union+of+Myanmar/@19.7491033,96.0908636,9345m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x305652a7714e2907:0xba7b0ee41c622b11?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/place/Republic+of+the+Union+of+M...
reustle 12y ago
I spent 3 weeks in Myanmar about a month ago. Now I regret not visiting Naypyidaw. Everyone I met, including locals, said it wasn't worth my time.
lepht 12y ago
TFA claims it's 6 times the size of NYC but cost only $4 billion dollars to build. How is that possible?
- pavedwalden 12y ago
  I'm just speculating here, but it's probably 6x NY's footprint in square miles yet with large open areas that are not built up.
erikpukinskis 12y ago
The is the World Bank's classic scam. Bribe a corrupt government to take massive loans for infrastructure it doesn't need. It goes hand in hand with the United States' New Colonialism policy, because we can then demand drilling rights and military alliance when they default on the loans. It's just a way for us to siphon off a chunk of developing nations' GDP. That's the World Bank's charter in a nutshell. The book Confessions of an Econonomic Hitman lays this all out. The only difference here is it appears the Japanese got the ball rolling.
- mullen 12y ago
  John Perkins is a conspiracy theorist and sort of a nut job. The building of Naypyidaw was done by Burma under the orders of its leadership. The World Bank did not have to twist anyone arms to get this White Elephant built. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Perkins_(author) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Perkins_(author)
hyperliner 12y ago
For a second there I thought this was a parody about San Francisco: poor people displaced, privileged people moving in who couldn't care less, pretty looking, empty inside.

86 points by Vigier 12y ago

All the residential houses are quite expensive and only bought by rich people who don't really live there, making it more empty.

Aqwis 12y ago

Reminds me a lot of Pyongyang. Empty, wide roads, few people on the streets, and a whole lot of luxery facilities for the few well-connected.

peteretep 12y ago
Myanmar is nothing like North Korea. For a start, you can backpack around most of the cities unrestricted. Yangon, the largest city in Myanmar, is just like any other South East Asian capital, and again, nothing like Pyongyang.
- nemo 12y ago
  It's only relatively recently that travelers could visit Myanmar (legally). For a very long time it was very much like North Korea - a hermit kingdom ruled by a brutal military junta under international sanctions and completely dependent on China.
  - mark_up 12y ago
    Did you actually confirm that by going there? I ask because what you describe is pretty much how the international media described Fiji in the aftermath of the 2006 coup. Meanwhile it was business as usual in Fiji, with tens of thousands of tourists enjoying their holidays without obstruction, and citizens working and partying just as they were doing prior. When it comes to describing regimes/countries that don't fit the Western democratic ideal, you simply can't trust the international media to give you a fair picture of life on the ground.
  - peteretep 12y ago
    > It's only relatively recently that travelers could visit > Myanmar (legally) That is simply incorrect.
    - nemo 12y ago
      Yes, you're right. I was generalizing about Westerners, rather than all travel. I had been told that while in Thailand years ago, but apparently there were some (complicated) ways for Westerners to get visas in the past.
      - peteretep 12y ago
        It's not even really true about Westerners
  - dnial02 12y ago
    Only if you're Westerner. South East Asian can enter Myanmar freely, but Myanmar is the only country that doesn't have free visa for other ASEAN country.
    - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
      Americans never had a problem with entering Myanmar. All you needed was a visa from the embassy in Beijing (you could probably get one at the consulate in Kunming also).
maxwin 12y ago
The artificially built capital is kind of creepy. But other cities are not like that at all. It is authentic, culture-rich and very safe to travel.
WildUtah 12y ago
"Reminds me a lot of Pyongyang" Or Brasilia. Three cities built on the communist central planning principles of the post-war American suburb reflect, each in its own way, the oppression and alienation that motorcar-oriented planning imposes on humans. [0] There is an alternative to suburban hell. The traditional city humans have loved for thousands of years is still possible. [1] There are even great accessible, affordable examples in Burma and Brazil. In places like North Korea and the USA, the destruction of traditional free ways of life has been more complete. Though if you belong to the powerful and monied elite you might be able to afford to live in the few remaining neighborhoods in Pyongyang or San Francisco where traditional city design from decades ago is grandfathered in. [0] http://kunstler.com/books/the-geography-of-nowhere/ http://kunstler.com/books/the-geography-of-nowhere/ [1] http://www.newworldeconomics.com/archives/2008/072008.html http://www.newworldeconomics.com/archives/2008/072008.html
- forinti 12y ago
  I beg to differ. Brasilia was built on Modernist principles. It was very much inspired on the work of Le Corbusier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corbusier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corbusier). It has nothing to do with communism.
  - agumonkey 12y ago
    Maybe communist urbanism was inspired by Modernism ?
  - WildUtah 12y ago
    Corbu was all about controlling the details of daily life by top-down commands from central authorities. His ambitions were to wipe out and knock down Paris and replace it with orderly and easily controlled towers and sight lines. Traditional cities with their chaos, entrepreneurship, freedom, variety, and individualism didn't interest him. The tower in the park required hugely expensive (at the time) commitment to motorcars and freeways surrounding and fixing the limits of mobility for the poor and middle class. Centralised government and hierarchical businesses were needed to manage and planned lives of humans in Corbu's city. Everything about Corbu reflected the totalitarian age in which he lived. His dreams are the same as the communists' and merit the same fate.

grecy 12y ago

For many years Myanmar was the sole country on the planet you couldn't drive your own vehicle into.. preventing a trans-europe->se asia trip without shipping your vehicle. That has all changed in the last 12-24 months, and multiple groups have reported it's now possible. http://wikioverland.org/Myanmar http://wikioverland.org/Myanmar (The details are still a little short, but we're getting there) I'm planning my trip now :)

ma2rten 12y ago
Why can't you go around Myanmar (China -> Laos -> Thailand)?
- grecy 12y ago
  You can, but driving your own vehicle in China is extremely expensive, and it's difficult (or impossible) to enter from some countries / borders. Most people end up shipping from India -> Thailand or Malaysia, and it's still cheaper than driving through China. ie. see http://wikioverland.org/China http://wikioverland.org/China the prices have come down a lot lately, but it's still very expensive.
- lmm 12y ago
  China won't let you into the Tibetan Autonomous Region except as part of an official tour party from within China. You can go around further to the north (I went that way by rail a few years ago), but most people on such a road trip would like to see India (and probably also Nepal), and to then have to go back all the way to possibly cross the border in disputed Kashmir or realistically to Uzbekistan is a bit of a detour to say the least. (Central Asia is fascinating and I do recommend the trip through Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan at some point).
technomancy 12y ago
I live on the Thai border with Burma, and while it's possible it's still tricky. The road from the Thai border to Yangon has one lane total (!) so it alternates directions depending on whether it's an even or odd day.

ngoel36 12y ago

I was in Yangon (Rangoon) last weekend - it was nothing like what I've read about Naypyidaw (didn't have the chance to go). So I would recommend not using this to stereotype the entire country. Yangon was beautiful, and ridiculously crowded. It honestly felt like a version of Delhi, down to the horrific traffic. Most impressive was that any sort of data was unavailable on AT&T roaming, but there I was standing at the [real] Shwedagon Pagoda, in a country that hadn't been open to the world until a few years ago, and I had an abundance of free wi-fi to check in to Facebook.

peteretep 12y ago
> any sort of data was unavailable on AT&T roaming Telenor SIM cards are cheap and have data

fsloth 12y ago

The characterization "six times the size of New York City" evokes images of area with the same building density. Actually it seems to be quite sparse https://www.google.com/maps/place/Republic+of+the+Union+of+Myanmar/@19.7491033,96.0908636,9345m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x305652a7714e2907:0xba7b0ee41c622b11?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/place/Republic+of+the+Union+of+M...

reustle 12y ago

I spent 3 weeks in Myanmar about a month ago. Now I regret not visiting Naypyidaw. Everyone I met, including locals, said it wasn't worth my time.

lepht 12y ago

TFA claims it's 6 times the size of NYC but cost only $4 billion dollars to build. How is that possible?

pavedwalden 12y ago
I'm just speculating here, but it's probably 6x NY's footprint in square miles yet with large open areas that are not built up.

erikpukinskis 12y ago

The is the World Bank's classic scam. Bribe a corrupt government to take massive loans for infrastructure it doesn't need. It goes hand in hand with the United States' New Colonialism policy, because we can then demand drilling rights and military alliance when they default on the loans. It's just a way for us to siphon off a chunk of developing nations' GDP. That's the World Bank's charter in a nutshell. The book Confessions of an Econonomic Hitman lays this all out. The only difference here is it appears the Japanese got the ball rolling.

mullen 12y ago
John Perkins is a conspiracy theorist and sort of a nut job. The building of Naypyidaw was done by Burma under the orders of its leadership. The World Bank did not have to twist anyone arms to get this White Elephant built. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Perkins_(author) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Perkins_(author)

hyperliner 12y ago

For a second there I thought this was a parody about San Francisco: poor people displaced, privileged people moving in who couldn't care less, pretty looking, empty inside.