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Is there any reason not to just use artificial sweeteners besides unfounded fears in the public? And would all this research money not be better spent on advert

Is there any reason not to just use artificial sweeteners besides unfounded fears in the public? And would all this research money not be better spent on advertising and attempts to influence public perception?

Alex3917 12y ago
> Is there any reason not to just use artificial sweeteners besides unfounded fears in the public? Most of them taste awful. The best sugar substitute in terms of taste is probably xylitol, but due to the enormous levels of income inequality in the U.S. most Americans wouldn't be able to afford the extra couple cents a can.
fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
>Is there any reason not to just use artificial sweeteners besides unfounded fears in the public? artificial sweeteners stimulate appetite and promote weight gain http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892765/pdf/yjbm_83_2_101.pdf http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892765/pdf/yjbm... Aspartame and depression: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8373935 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8373935 SURVEY OF ASPARTAME STUDIES: CORRELATION OF OUTCOME AND FUNDING SOURCES http://www.dorway.com/peerrev.html http://www.dorway.com/peerrev.html >And would all this research money not be better spent on advertising and attempts to influence public perception? I guess if you're selling artificial sweeteners...
- fluidcruft 12y ago
  > artificial sweeteners stimulate appetite and promote weight gain I do not see evidence or argument in your link to support your summary. The closest I found was mention of a large observational study where people that were observed to became fatter used more sugar substitute. The difference between the groups of +2lbs was statistically significant, but seems irrelevant given the obvious observational confound of people that gain weight also switching to substitutes to reduce calorie intake.
  - fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
    Take it up with the author. My point was to dispute the GP poster's assertion that random public persons' concerns are unfounded. The existence of such studies absent a firm conclusion from the studies makes it an open question.
    - fluidcruft 12y ago
      I'm sorry, this is completely ridiculous. You are literally saying that since the article you chose to cite does not support your argument, that I should instead go argue with the author of the peer-reviewed journal article? Really?!? That's the best defense of your argument you can muster?
      - fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
        I didn't even make an argument. I posted a few links to peer-reviewed research about the effects of artificial sweeteners. HN poster kmicklas, way up there made a post referring to "unfounded fears in the public" about artificial sweeteners. The links I posted are enough to dismiss the notion that artificial sweeteners can pose no health risk(s).
        Dylan16807 12y ago
        You can't throw a file full of non-evidence on the table and say that it justifies people being wary of artificial sweeteners.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- dbbolton 12y ago
  >artificial sweeteners stimulate appetite and promote weight gain Just like all studies seeking to link artificial sweeteners to weight gain, it's a correlational argument that is not specific to artificial sweeteners. The "neurobiology of food reward" is the exact same for sugar and artificial sweeteners unless you happen to be purposefully depriving yourself of calories, in which case the sweetener cannot be blamed. The heart of the problem is psychosocial, not biochemical. Overweight people are more likely to choose reduced calorie foods than people who are not overweight. There is also such a thing as cognitive bias. People who are overweight and/or trying to lose weight will often end up using their exercise and calorie reductions as "credits" toward food choices (e.g., 'Since I'm having a Diet Soda, it's OK if I get the Extra Large fries because the calories cancel out') and don't actually end up burning more calories than they take in. If you could demonstrate in controlled conditions that (ideally more than 13[1]) people who eat and exercise in moderation suddenly start gaining weight when artificial sweeteners are added to their diet (or losing weight when they are removed), it might be an interesting finding. >Aspartame and depression [1] - "Despite the small n" ... possibly the understatement of the century. >SURVEY OF ASPARTAME STUDIES If anyone has actual evidence of failure to disclose a conflict of interest in a published study, then it should be reported to the relevant institutions, not used as a platform to denounce all research on a topic.
  - trhway 12y ago
    >The "neurobiology of food reward" is the exact same for sugar and artificial sweeteners i beg your pardon. With sugar you're pretty much getting the glucose injection into bloodstream, all the energy producing machinery starts working and you get the feeling of your body being fed. There is no such blood-glucose level feedback in case of artificial sweeteners. So whatever havoc they wreck, i stay out of it :)
    - dbbolton 12y ago
      Let me reiterate my point about eating and exercising in moderation. I said when you are not deprived of calories, meaning that if you still maintain adequate food intake throughout the day, there is no deleterious effect from the sweetener. Yes, if you drink nothing but diet soda all day and then eat a giant meal right before bed, that is probably not a healthy dietary cycle. But again, you can hardly blame that on the sweetener itself. In reality, I'm not sure this happens all that often. What's more common is reports of "sugar cravings" that increase with consumption of artificial sweeteners. It seems to vary from person to person, but obviously if that happens to you then you would be a fool to continue consuming them.
- TTPrograms 12y ago
  Now compare that against the hundreds of papers describing the negative impact of sugar consumption. You're comparing subtle, little understood second order effects to a first order caloric increase due to sugar intake that we know is the leading cause in the modern obesity epidemic. N=40 single studies demonstrating minor differences can't compete with the massive body of evidence against caloric sweeteners.
  - fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
    My point isn't that sugar is good. My point is that people are reasonable to be concerned about the health consequences of artificial sweeteners.
cgh 12y ago
Or even non-artificial, like stevia. We use it as a sweetener and it's pretty good. Or is there some regulatory barrier?
- dagw 12y ago
  Coke Life is sweetened with Stevia, but I don't know how wide spread a distribution it has.
  - poulsbohemian 12y ago
    It contains stevia, but it also contains a whole lot of cane sugar. Still loaded with calories.

Alex3917 12y ago

> Is there any reason not to just use artificial sweeteners besides unfounded fears in the public? Most of them taste awful. The best sugar substitute in terms of taste is probably xylitol, but due to the enormous levels of income inequality in the U.S. most Americans wouldn't be able to afford the extra couple cents a can.

fnordfnordfnord 12y ago

>Is there any reason not to just use artificial sweeteners besides unfounded fears in the public? artificial sweeteners stimulate appetite and promote weight gain http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892765/pdf/yjbm_83_2_101.pdf http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892765/pdf/yjbm... Aspartame and depression: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8373935 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8373935 SURVEY OF ASPARTAME STUDIES: CORRELATION OF OUTCOME AND FUNDING SOURCES http://www.dorway.com/peerrev.html http://www.dorway.com/peerrev.html >And would all this research money not be better spent on advertising and attempts to influence public perception? I guess if you're selling artificial sweeteners...

fluidcruft 12y ago
> artificial sweeteners stimulate appetite and promote weight gain I do not see evidence or argument in your link to support your summary. The closest I found was mention of a large observational study where people that were observed to became fatter used more sugar substitute. The difference between the groups of +2lbs was statistically significant, but seems irrelevant given the obvious observational confound of people that gain weight also switching to substitutes to reduce calorie intake.
- fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
  Take it up with the author. My point was to dispute the GP poster's assertion that random public persons' concerns are unfounded. The existence of such studies absent a firm conclusion from the studies makes it an open question.
  - fluidcruft 12y ago
    I'm sorry, this is completely ridiculous. You are literally saying that since the article you chose to cite does not support your argument, that I should instead go argue with the author of the peer-reviewed journal article? Really?!? That's the best defense of your argument you can muster?
    - fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
      I didn't even make an argument. I posted a few links to peer-reviewed research about the effects of artificial sweeteners. HN poster kmicklas, way up there made a post referring to "unfounded fears in the public" about artificial sweeteners. The links I posted are enough to dismiss the notion that artificial sweeteners can pose no health risk(s).
      - Dylan16807 12y ago
        You can't throw a file full of non-evidence on the table and say that it justifies people being wary of artificial sweeteners.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
dbbolton 12y ago
>artificial sweeteners stimulate appetite and promote weight gain Just like all studies seeking to link artificial sweeteners to weight gain, it's a correlational argument that is not specific to artificial sweeteners. The "neurobiology of food reward" is the exact same for sugar and artificial sweeteners unless you happen to be purposefully depriving yourself of calories, in which case the sweetener cannot be blamed. The heart of the problem is psychosocial, not biochemical. Overweight people are more likely to choose reduced calorie foods than people who are not overweight. There is also such a thing as cognitive bias. People who are overweight and/or trying to lose weight will often end up using their exercise and calorie reductions as "credits" toward food choices (e.g., 'Since I'm having a Diet Soda, it's OK if I get the Extra Large fries because the calories cancel out') and don't actually end up burning more calories than they take in. If you could demonstrate in controlled conditions that (ideally more than 13[1]) people who eat and exercise in moderation suddenly start gaining weight when artificial sweeteners are added to their diet (or losing weight when they are removed), it might be an interesting finding. >Aspartame and depression [1] - "Despite the small n" ... possibly the understatement of the century. >SURVEY OF ASPARTAME STUDIES If anyone has actual evidence of failure to disclose a conflict of interest in a published study, then it should be reported to the relevant institutions, not used as a platform to denounce all research on a topic.
- trhway 12y ago
  >The "neurobiology of food reward" is the exact same for sugar and artificial sweeteners i beg your pardon. With sugar you're pretty much getting the glucose injection into bloodstream, all the energy producing machinery starts working and you get the feeling of your body being fed. There is no such blood-glucose level feedback in case of artificial sweeteners. So whatever havoc they wreck, i stay out of it :)
  - dbbolton 12y ago
    Let me reiterate my point about eating and exercising in moderation. I said when you are not deprived of calories, meaning that if you still maintain adequate food intake throughout the day, there is no deleterious effect from the sweetener. Yes, if you drink nothing but diet soda all day and then eat a giant meal right before bed, that is probably not a healthy dietary cycle. But again, you can hardly blame that on the sweetener itself. In reality, I'm not sure this happens all that often. What's more common is reports of "sugar cravings" that increase with consumption of artificial sweeteners. It seems to vary from person to person, but obviously if that happens to you then you would be a fool to continue consuming them.
TTPrograms 12y ago
Now compare that against the hundreds of papers describing the negative impact of sugar consumption. You're comparing subtle, little understood second order effects to a first order caloric increase due to sugar intake that we know is the leading cause in the modern obesity epidemic. N=40 single studies demonstrating minor differences can't compete with the massive body of evidence against caloric sweeteners.
- fnordfnordfnord 12y ago
  My point isn't that sugar is good. My point is that people are reasonable to be concerned about the health consequences of artificial sweeteners.

cgh 12y ago

Or even non-artificial, like stevia. We use it as a sweetener and it's pretty good. Or is there some regulatory barrier?

dagw 12y ago
Coke Life is sweetened with Stevia, but I don't know how wide spread a distribution it has.
- poulsbohemian 12y ago
  It contains stevia, but it also contains a whole lot of cane sugar. Still loaded with calories.