7 ms·

Massimo Banzi: Fighting for Arduino

224 points by zaaaaz 12y ago

ceequof 12y ago
See also: http://hackaday.com/2015/02/25/arduino-v-arduino/ http://hackaday.com/2015/02/25/arduino-v-arduino/ http://hackaday.com/2015/03/12/arduino-v-arduino-part-ii/ http://hackaday.com/2015/03/12/arduino-v-arduino-part-ii/ Note that the arduino.cc store is out of stock of pretty much everything, which makes sense if Arduino Srl is no longer manufacturing anything for them: http://store.arduino.cc/category/11 http://store.arduino.cc/category/11 Additionally, tinkerkit.com (Arduino LLC's line of branded sensors for Arduino boards) has been down for at least a year now, which sucks, since that's where all the example code and datasheets are kept. We've seen sales for those drop through the floor. The legal battle seems to have significantly impacted operations at Ardunio LLC, to the point that they're not really a functioning company anymore.
- ddp 12y ago
  An interesting tale. It never ceases to amaze me how poorly people can behave. And, yeah, maybe this does explain why they seem to have not really made it past their initial burst of creativity. At some point the BeagleBone Black and the π2 just make a whole lot more sense. I still have a soft spot for the Due w/ a PoE shield though.
  - markkanof 12y ago
    Agreed with your general sentiment, but the BeagleBone Black is still quite lacking when it comes to documentation. I'm a very experienced web developer, but am new to programming for embedded type devices. While the BeagleBone Black in browser development environment is quite nice, the lack of documentation makes it hard to figure out fairly basic things like reading values from a gyroscope/accelerometer/magnetometer. A lot of this hardware has existing libraries for Arduino, which is why in my opinion the Arduino is still a superior platform for anyone who is somewhat new to embedded computing.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 12y ago
      I agree. I'm the opposite: a very experienced embedded developer but relatively new to web development (though my BBB is currently serving up a page monitoring my mechanical room). It's like pulling teeth to find out any but the most basic specs of the BBB. I haven't used it much because a lot of what I wanted to do would have required so much experimentation to figure out stuff that should already have been documented. I just don't have that kind of time these days.
      - joezydeco 12y ago
        Experienced embedded developer here as well. For some reason I haven't had any trouble with the Beaglebone at all. A kernel driver is a kernel driver, and I2C bus is an I2C bus. What specs on the BBB do you need, specifically, that are causing you trouble?
        HeyLaughingBoy 12y ago
        It's been a while since I looked at it. IIRC, the main problem I had was that many of the IO lines had shared/multiple functions and I couldn't find any documentation that explained how to switch them. e.g. (contrived example), if a bit was MOSI for an SPI interface or DIO on port C, I had no idea which one it defaulted to and how to use it for the alternate function. I got it to work for basic I/O, but it's obviously capable of much more.
        makomk 12y ago
        If you're running Linux on it, I believe you need to use device tree overlays. See http://kilobaser.com/blog/2014-07-28-beaglebone-black-devicetreeoverlay-generator http://kilobaser.com/blog/2014-07-28-beaglebone-black-device...
      - ddp 12y ago
        Interesting. I actually got mine to try and run Scheme on it: http://armpit.sourceforge.net http://armpit.sourceforge.net
- FanaHOVA 12y ago
  Last April there was an hackathon at my university and TinkerKit provided a bunch of kits; they said they could be bought through arduino.cc, so they probably just ditched the TinkerKit website to bring everything together ([The libraries are still on GitHub though](https://github.com/TinkerKit https://github.com/TinkerKit), at least there's that).
  - hugs 12y ago
    I was annoyed with TinkerKit's wire arrangement for their 3-wire connectors. The wire order for most standard hobby servos (e.g. Hitec) are [signal, +v, g], but TinkerKet went with [+v, signal, g]. That means I couldn't easily use most hobby servos with their system. I'm kinda happy TinkerKit's wire arrangement didn't become a more popular standard.
scriptproof 12y ago
If I well understood, it is recommended now to support the team to buy a clone rather that an original Arduino?
- pmontra 12y ago
  If you want to support the team you should buy from http://store.arduino.cc/ http://store.arduino.cc/ or from any other site. You should not buy from http://www.smartprj.com/ http://www.smartprj.com/ which is the Arduino Srl site.
  - velodrome 12y ago
    Except that almost all the boards are sold out. Is there any other alternative?
    - 542458 12y ago
      Sparkfun's Arduino-like boards pay back a percentage to the inventors.
  - upofadown 12y ago
    Here is a huge list of presumably legit distributors: http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Buy http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Buy For example: DigiKey has thousands of the Arduino Uno in stock.
    - jack12 12y ago
      Except that there are reports (http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=307397.0 http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=307397.0) that the boards from official distributors are shipping with Arduino Srl's USB Vendor ID, indicating that purchasing any "official" Arduino is likely funding the attack on Arduino LLC. Hence the GP's observation that buying a 'no-name' clone seems to currently be the least-harmful option available.
- kefka 12y ago
  Absolutely. Arduino (both of them) have dropped the ball. Atmels are great for small low-everything projects. But once you move up to dealing with more complex data, they just don't have the horsepower... And when they do, you end up with the Arduino Yun, which is a binary blob of closed sourceness. Might as well go with a RasPi/uno combo for best of both worlds. Since the Chinese have been innovating here a lot, here's some links to get you started. And yes, I like AliExpress and Ali Baba. Pro mini $1.68 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Pro-Mini-Module-Atmega328-5V-16M-For-Arduino-Compatible-With-Nano/2021666535.html http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Pro-Mini-Module-Atmega328-5V-... Nano $2.52 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1PCS-Nano-3-0-controller-compatible-with-nano-CH340-USB-driver-NO-CABLE-NANO-V3-0/2035011839.html http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1PCS-Nano-3-0-controller-comp... Uno $3.15 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Best-prices-UNO-R3-MEGA328P-for-Arduino-Compatible-Free-Shipping-Dropshipping/32213964945.html http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Best-prices-UNO-R3-MEGA328P-f... Mega $9.85 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Freeshipping-Mega-2560-R3-Mega2560-REV3-ATmega2560-16AU-Board-USB-Cable-compatible-for-arduino-good-quality/1304207708.html http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Freeshipping-Mega-2560-R3-Meg...
jayess 12y ago
You can read the federal court filings (so far) here: https://www.unitedstatescourts.org/federal/mad/167131/ https://www.unitedstatescourts.org/federal/mad/167131/
TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
Rather than fight over the name, it may be more productive to choose a new name, trademark it, and get out a new generation under that name from an existing friendly manufacturer (Sparkfun?)
- pjc50 12y ago
  The name is the valuable thing, though; the hardware design is old and heavily cloned already.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
    If you tell people you changed name, you could keep the reputation?
    - bduerst 12y ago
      In theory, yes - but in practice it rarely works that way. Brands switch names to be forgotten (Comcast -> Xfinity, Blackwater -> Xe)
      - samatman 12y ago
        If one is truly vile, it can take a couple tries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi
  - schappim 12y ago
    That's right. There are much better options like the https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/ https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/ !
- fudged71 12y ago
  Raspberry Pi should acquire Arduino. They are complementary and have lots of wonderful synergies.
spiritplumber 12y ago
I am biased towards Massimo because he's a fellow Italian, but what does this mean for the Arduino hardware?
- cjbprime 12y ago
  The "defector", Gianluca Martino, is also Italian, no?
  - enricobruschini 12y ago
    He's correct, that doesn't make us proud tho
enricobruschini 12y ago
Had the chance to meet Massimo quickly long time ago; a truly passionate innovator and honest at hearth. I'm so sorry to read this story and I feel as much proud of what he did as much disappointed and disgusted for the "dark side" of the story. #keepPushing Massimo!
- vanderZwan 12y ago
  I can say the same about David Cuartielles, who's I'm sort of a colleague with at Malmö University. Rarely see him, but he's a great guy.
schappim 12y ago
As one of Arduino's very first distributors (http://littlebirdelectronics.com http://littlebirdelectronics.com), this explains the total disarray we've seen with communicating (what we only now know is two) companies. I'm shocked that Massimo hasn't contacted their partners (like us) to tell them what was going on!
- whiskers 12y ago
  Totally off-topic but we'd love better coverage down-under (as would our customers!) if you'd be interested in potentially distributing some of our range. :-) We do mostly Raspberry Pi stuff including HATs and cases which we manufacture in our own workshop in Sheffield, UK: http://shop.pimoroni.com/collections/raspberry-pi-2 http://shop.pimoroni.com/collections/raspberry-pi-2 and http://shop.pimoroni.com/collections/hats http://shop.pimoroni.com/collections/hats My e-mail is in my profile if you're up for it!
arjn 12y ago
Wow! I had no idea all this was going on behind the scenes. Hate to see such a good thing be spoiled by greed and deceit.
- smcl 12y ago
  Agreed, even though we've only seen one side of the story I can't see this working out well for the guy behind Arduino Srl. He may somehow sneak a win in court, but the community will likely shun anything he's involved with.
perone 12y ago
One more reason that will make a lot of people to migrate to mbed platform.
- marssaxman 12y ago
  Isn't mbed still stuck with that "cloud IDE" nonsense?
  - poseid 12y ago
    indeed, would be interesting to see more gcc coverage for ARM e.g. as in these examples https://github.com/muccc/arm-workshop https://github.com/muccc/arm-workshop
FanaHOVA 12y ago
I had the pleasure to meet Banzi and be interviewed with him during last year's Maker Faire in Rome, he sounded really passionate and excited about the future of Arduino and I believe that while this is a problem, it's in no way holding them back. They recently joined the 3D printing world with Materia 101 and they're bound to release a new IDE soon-ish. Most people buying Arduinos in Italy usually have them imported from elsewhere; they also sponsor lots of events here in Rome, I have 4 boards and I got 3 of them through Maker Faire/hackathons, I imagine those profits go straight to Arduino (the legit one). Wonder why they didn't register the arduino.org domain though...
ChuckMcM 12y ago
"After the process of registering in the US was over and our lawyer tried to extend the trademark to the rest of the world, he realised that somebody had registered it already in Italy. We (Tom, David, David, and I) were shocked and demanded explanations. Gianluca reassured us that this was done to protect our collective investment." I'm surprised it took them two years to figure this out in the first place, but once it was uncovered then that is the point where you say, "Great, you protected it, now transfer it immediately." Unfortunately, when it wasn't turned over that means this person is not your friend, and they do not have your, or the organization's best interests at heart. So legal action starts right then and there. I know it is hard to discover someone you work with is (or has been) planning to take advantage of you all along, but history has shown that once its clear that is what they are (or were) thinking, there is no "reconciliation" there is only winning and losing.
- smilekzs 12y ago
  I've had similar experiences. "when ... that means this person is not your friend" was the best way to put it. A reasonable advice for all "friend team" members: keep an eye on IP and profit distribution from Day 1.
smcl 12y ago
I know that from the story it looks pretty ironclad that Massimo Banzi and the original Arduino guys (arduino.cc) are on the side of good - and my gut tells me this is correct - but is there anything from the perspective of Guillermo/Arduino Srl or are they maintaining radio silence?
- leoc 12y ago
  If you're looking for another side to the story, it seems a good place would be to ask about the relationship between Arduino and Hernando Barragán, the inventor of the Wiring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiring_(development_platform) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiring_(development_platform) language used by Arduino. Banzi supervised Barragán's MIT thesis on Wiring http://wiki.wiring.co/images/7/76/Wiring_thesis.pdf http://wiki.wiring.co/images/7/76/Wiring_thesis.pdf .
iwwr 12y ago
In the mean time, if you're interested in solidly-designed and open-source arduino clones, you can check out those over at Olimex: https://www.olimex.com/Products/Duino/AVR/OLIMEXINO-32U4/open-source-hardware https://www.olimex.com/Products/Duino/AVR/OLIMEXINO-32U4/ope... https://www.olimex.com/Products/Duino/AVR/OLIMEXINO-328/open-source-hardware https://www.olimex.com/Products/Duino/AVR/OLIMEXINO-328/open... The second one has a better voltage regulator (9-30V input) and higher safe temperature range.

224 points by zaaaaz 12y ago

See also: http://hackaday.com/2015/02/25/arduino-v-arduino/ http://hackaday.com/2015/02/25/arduino-v-arduino/ http://hackaday.com/2015/03/12/arduino-v-arduino-part-ii/ http://hackaday.com/2015/03/12/arduino-v-arduino-part-ii/ Note that the arduino.cc store is out of stock of pretty much everything, which makes sense if Arduino Srl is no longer manufacturing anything for them: http://store.arduino.cc/category/11 http://store.arduino.cc/category/11 Additionally, tinkerkit.com (Arduino LLC's line of branded sensors for Arduino boards) has been down for at least a year now, which sucks, since that's where all the example code and datasheets are kept. We've seen sales for those drop through the floor. The legal battle seems to have significantly impacted operations at Ardunio LLC, to the point that they're not really a functioning company anymore.

ddp 12y ago
An interesting tale. It never ceases to amaze me how poorly people can behave. And, yeah, maybe this does explain why they seem to have not really made it past their initial burst of creativity. At some point the BeagleBone Black and the π2 just make a whole lot more sense. I still have a soft spot for the Due w/ a PoE shield though.
- markkanof 12y ago
  Agreed with your general sentiment, but the BeagleBone Black is still quite lacking when it comes to documentation. I'm a very experienced web developer, but am new to programming for embedded type devices. While the BeagleBone Black in browser development environment is quite nice, the lack of documentation makes it hard to figure out fairly basic things like reading values from a gyroscope/accelerometer/magnetometer. A lot of this hardware has existing libraries for Arduino, which is why in my opinion the Arduino is still a superior platform for anyone who is somewhat new to embedded computing.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 12y ago
    I agree. I'm the opposite: a very experienced embedded developer but relatively new to web development (though my BBB is currently serving up a page monitoring my mechanical room). It's like pulling teeth to find out any but the most basic specs of the BBB. I haven't used it much because a lot of what I wanted to do would have required so much experimentation to figure out stuff that should already have been documented. I just don't have that kind of time these days.
    - joezydeco 12y ago
      Experienced embedded developer here as well. For some reason I haven't had any trouble with the Beaglebone at all. A kernel driver is a kernel driver, and I2C bus is an I2C bus. What specs on the BBB do you need, specifically, that are causing you trouble?
      - HeyLaughingBoy 12y ago
        It's been a while since I looked at it. IIRC, the main problem I had was that many of the IO lines had shared/multiple functions and I couldn't find any documentation that explained how to switch them. e.g. (contrived example), if a bit was MOSI for an SPI interface or DIO on port C, I had no idea which one it defaulted to and how to use it for the alternate function. I got it to work for basic I/O, but it's obviously capable of much more.
        makomk 12y ago
        If you're running Linux on it, I believe you need to use device tree overlays. See http://kilobaser.com/blog/2014-07-28-beaglebone-black-devicetreeoverlay-generator http://kilobaser.com/blog/2014-07-28-beaglebone-black-device...
    - ddp 12y ago
      Interesting. I actually got mine to try and run Scheme on it: http://armpit.sourceforge.net http://armpit.sourceforge.net
FanaHOVA 12y ago
Last April there was an hackathon at my university and TinkerKit provided a bunch of kits; they said they could be bought through arduino.cc, so they probably just ditched the TinkerKit website to bring everything together ([The libraries are still on GitHub though](https://github.com/TinkerKit https://github.com/TinkerKit), at least there's that).
- hugs 12y ago
  I was annoyed with TinkerKit's wire arrangement for their 3-wire connectors. The wire order for most standard hobby servos (e.g. Hitec) are [signal, +v, g], but TinkerKet went with [+v, signal, g]. That means I couldn't easily use most hobby servos with their system. I'm kinda happy TinkerKit's wire arrangement didn't become a more popular standard.

scriptproof 12y ago

If I well understood, it is recommended now to support the team to buy a clone rather that an original Arduino?

pmontra 12y ago
If you want to support the team you should buy from http://store.arduino.cc/ http://store.arduino.cc/ or from any other site. You should not buy from http://www.smartprj.com/ http://www.smartprj.com/ which is the Arduino Srl site.
- velodrome 12y ago
  Except that almost all the boards are sold out. Is there any other alternative?
  - 542458 12y ago
    Sparkfun's Arduino-like boards pay back a percentage to the inventors.
- upofadown 12y ago
  Here is a huge list of presumably legit distributors: http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Buy http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Buy For example: DigiKey has thousands of the Arduino Uno in stock.
  - jack12 12y ago
    Except that there are reports (http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=307397.0 http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=307397.0) that the boards from official distributors are shipping with Arduino Srl's USB Vendor ID, indicating that purchasing any "official" Arduino is likely funding the attack on Arduino LLC. Hence the GP's observation that buying a 'no-name' clone seems to currently be the least-harmful option available.
kefka 12y ago
Absolutely. Arduino (both of them) have dropped the ball. Atmels are great for small low-everything projects. But once you move up to dealing with more complex data, they just don't have the horsepower... And when they do, you end up with the Arduino Yun, which is a binary blob of closed sourceness. Might as well go with a RasPi/uno combo for best of both worlds. Since the Chinese have been innovating here a lot, here's some links to get you started. And yes, I like AliExpress and Ali Baba. Pro mini $1.68 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Pro-Mini-Module-Atmega328-5V-16M-For-Arduino-Compatible-With-Nano/2021666535.html http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Pro-Mini-Module-Atmega328-5V-... Nano $2.52 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1PCS-Nano-3-0-controller-compatible-with-nano-CH340-USB-driver-NO-CABLE-NANO-V3-0/2035011839.html http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1PCS-Nano-3-0-controller-comp... Uno $3.15 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Best-prices-UNO-R3-MEGA328P-for-Arduino-Compatible-Free-Shipping-Dropshipping/32213964945.html http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Best-prices-UNO-R3-MEGA328P-f... Mega $9.85 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Freeshipping-Mega-2560-R3-Mega2560-REV3-ATmega2560-16AU-Board-USB-Cable-compatible-for-arduino-good-quality/1304207708.html http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Freeshipping-Mega-2560-R3-Meg...

jayess 12y ago

You can read the federal court filings (so far) here: https://www.unitedstatescourts.org/federal/mad/167131/ https://www.unitedstatescourts.org/federal/mad/167131/

TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago

Rather than fight over the name, it may be more productive to choose a new name, trademark it, and get out a new generation under that name from an existing friendly manufacturer (Sparkfun?)

pjc50 12y ago
The name is the valuable thing, though; the hardware design is old and heavily cloned already.
- TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
  If you tell people you changed name, you could keep the reputation?
  - bduerst 12y ago
    In theory, yes - but in practice it rarely works that way. Brands switch names to be forgotten (Comcast -> Xfinity, Blackwater -> Xe)
    - samatman 12y ago
      If one is truly vile, it can take a couple tries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi
- schappim 12y ago
  That's right. There are much better options like the https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/ https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/ !
fudged71 12y ago
Raspberry Pi should acquire Arduino. They are complementary and have lots of wonderful synergies.

spiritplumber 12y ago

I am biased towards Massimo because he's a fellow Italian, but what does this mean for the Arduino hardware?

cjbprime 12y ago
The "defector", Gianluca Martino, is also Italian, no?
- enricobruschini 12y ago
  He's correct, that doesn't make us proud tho

enricobruschini 12y ago

Had the chance to meet Massimo quickly long time ago; a truly passionate innovator and honest at hearth. I'm so sorry to read this story and I feel as much proud of what he did as much disappointed and disgusted for the "dark side" of the story. #keepPushing Massimo!

vanderZwan 12y ago
I can say the same about David Cuartielles, who's I'm sort of a colleague with at Malmö University. Rarely see him, but he's a great guy.

schappim 12y ago

As one of Arduino's very first distributors (http://littlebirdelectronics.com http://littlebirdelectronics.com), this explains the total disarray we've seen with communicating (what we only now know is two) companies. I'm shocked that Massimo hasn't contacted their partners (like us) to tell them what was going on!

whiskers 12y ago
Totally off-topic but we'd love better coverage down-under (as would our customers!) if you'd be interested in potentially distributing some of our range. :-) We do mostly Raspberry Pi stuff including HATs and cases which we manufacture in our own workshop in Sheffield, UK: http://shop.pimoroni.com/collections/raspberry-pi-2 http://shop.pimoroni.com/collections/raspberry-pi-2 and http://shop.pimoroni.com/collections/hats http://shop.pimoroni.com/collections/hats My e-mail is in my profile if you're up for it!

arjn 12y ago

Wow! I had no idea all this was going on behind the scenes. Hate to see such a good thing be spoiled by greed and deceit.

smcl 12y ago
Agreed, even though we've only seen one side of the story I can't see this working out well for the guy behind Arduino Srl. He may somehow sneak a win in court, but the community will likely shun anything he's involved with.

perone 12y ago

One more reason that will make a lot of people to migrate to mbed platform.

marssaxman 12y ago
Isn't mbed still stuck with that "cloud IDE" nonsense?
- poseid 12y ago
  indeed, would be interesting to see more gcc coverage for ARM e.g. as in these examples https://github.com/muccc/arm-workshop https://github.com/muccc/arm-workshop

FanaHOVA 12y ago

I had the pleasure to meet Banzi and be interviewed with him during last year's Maker Faire in Rome, he sounded really passionate and excited about the future of Arduino and I believe that while this is a problem, it's in no way holding them back. They recently joined the 3D printing world with Materia 101 and they're bound to release a new IDE soon-ish. Most people buying Arduinos in Italy usually have them imported from elsewhere; they also sponsor lots of events here in Rome, I have 4 boards and I got 3 of them through Maker Faire/hackathons, I imagine those profits go straight to Arduino (the legit one). Wonder why they didn't register the arduino.org domain though...

ChuckMcM 12y ago

"After the process of registering in the US was over and our lawyer tried to extend the trademark to the rest of the world, he realised that somebody had registered it already in Italy. We (Tom, David, David, and I) were shocked and demanded explanations. Gianluca reassured us that this was done to protect our collective investment." I'm surprised it took them two years to figure this out in the first place, but once it was uncovered then that is the point where you say, "Great, you protected it, now transfer it immediately." Unfortunately, when it wasn't turned over that means this person is not your friend, and they do not have your, or the organization's best interests at heart. So legal action starts right then and there. I know it is hard to discover someone you work with is (or has been) planning to take advantage of you all along, but history has shown that once its clear that is what they are (or were) thinking, there is no "reconciliation" there is only winning and losing.

smilekzs 12y ago
I've had similar experiences. "when ... that means this person is not your friend" was the best way to put it. A reasonable advice for all "friend team" members: keep an eye on IP and profit distribution from Day 1.

smcl 12y ago

I know that from the story it looks pretty ironclad that Massimo Banzi and the original Arduino guys (arduino.cc) are on the side of good - and my gut tells me this is correct - but is there anything from the perspective of Guillermo/Arduino Srl or are they maintaining radio silence?

leoc 12y ago
If you're looking for another side to the story, it seems a good place would be to ask about the relationship between Arduino and Hernando Barragán, the inventor of the Wiring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiring_(development_platform) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiring_(development_platform) language used by Arduino. Banzi supervised Barragán's MIT thesis on Wiring http://wiki.wiring.co/images/7/76/Wiring_thesis.pdf http://wiki.wiring.co/images/7/76/Wiring_thesis.pdf .

iwwr 12y ago

In the mean time, if you're interested in solidly-designed and open-source arduino clones, you can check out those over at Olimex: https://www.olimex.com/Products/Duino/AVR/OLIMEXINO-32U4/open-source-hardware https://www.olimex.com/Products/Duino/AVR/OLIMEXINO-32U4/ope... https://www.olimex.com/Products/Duino/AVR/OLIMEXINO-328/open-source-hardware https://www.olimex.com/Products/Duino/AVR/OLIMEXINO-328/open... The second one has a better voltage regulator (9-30V input) and higher safe temperature range.