11 ms·

Microsoft tackles China piracy with free upgrade to Windows 10

89 points by iamben 12y ago

joshuapants 12y ago
This move makes sense: better to have people running a legitimate copy of your latest OS than a pirated copy of a 15-year-old OS. All the better to try and convert them to paying customers of Microsoft services.
- cordite 12y ago
  It looks like it is windows 7 and up, not XP and such.
  - jaredmcateer 12y ago
    They are making the free upgrade from Windows 7 and up globally, but this article seems to imply they are going to make an exception for China and make the upgrade free for all Windows users.
    - atlantic 12y ago
      The title does seem to imply that. What the article in fact says is that the free upgrade is being offered globally, but the motivation behind it is to re-engage with Chinese Windows users who have an unlicensed OS.
    - jsight 12y ago
      AFAIK, upgrades are only supported from Windows 7 and up regardless whether the product is paid for.
      - morganvachon 12y ago
        That makes sense, given XP can install and run decently on a machine that would choke on Windows 7, if it would even install. Minimum system requirements are still a thing, and as light and efficient as Windows 10 is, it's not meant for 2001 era technology.
- iamben 12y ago
  Bill himself said in the 90s - "About 3 million computers get sold every year in China, but people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though. As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade."
  - omh 12y ago
    Interestingly, that quote is from almost 17 years ago and they don't quite seem to have figured out how to "collect" yet.
    - mariusmg 12y ago
      No rush, it's not like MS is running out of money :)
      - melling 12y ago
        And they've prevented hundreds of millions of people from going with a different OS, thus eliminating potential threats.
        higherpurpose 12y ago
        Unfortunately. I think if the Chinese government forced/encouraged everyone to go Linux a long time ago, instead of having to pirate Windows, the Linux ecosystem of programs would be much richer, too. And OEMs wouldn't release 99% of their machines with Windows on them by default. This way we would've had competition on the desktop and in the browser market way before Android and iOS started appearing on tablets.
        ttty 12y ago
        Only if linux would work out of the box, no driver issues, no need to change files with root... more user friendly.. They decided to make linux for the tech people
- userbinator 12y ago
  The subsequent versions of Windows are far more locked-down/limited with respect to user control and customisation than XP, which is likely why it lasted for so long.
  - JBiserkov 12y ago
    How do you mean?
yc1010 12y ago
How would someone prove they are from China? It surely can not be just ip address or language setting based
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- toxican 12y ago
  Read the article. They don't care where you're from. If your copy isn't legit, you can upgrade to a legit copy of 10. >"We are upgrading all qualified PCs, genuine and non-genuine, to Windows 10,"
sp332 12y ago
OK everybody, time to pirate Win7!
unicornporn 12y ago
So, this effectively means that Windows 10 will be free(ware). This also means that Microsoft will have to make up for lost profits. Apple makes money from hardware, Micrsoft made money by selling their OS. Seems they are going the service/Google way as they will also be giving away roms for a Xiaomi phone[1]. [1] http://www.windowscentral.com/more-details-emerge-how-xiaomi-windows-10-preview-will-be-distributed http://www.windowscentral.com/more-details-emerge-how-xiaomi...
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- jussij 12y ago
  > Microsoft made money by selling their OS I think Microsoft cash cow is their Office Suite. To run that suite you still need a Microsoft OS and recently their Office 365 cloud version is also showing strong growth.
  - tim333 12y ago
    I imagine Microsoft still make a good bit of cash from OS sales but mostly from manufacturers buying in bulk for new PCs, not so much from individual upgrades. It's the individual upgrades they are giving for free. Dunno if it's China only or if we can get them elsewhere?
  - superuser2 12y ago
    >to run that suite you still need a Microsoft OS False. http://www.microsoft.com/mac/office-university http://www.microsoft.com/mac/office-university
    - couradical 12y ago
      That works until you get into anything complicated. Recently, I had a spreadsheet that our finance team built that provided different calculated values (for a multi table aggregation, nothing simple for sure) on Excel Windows and Excel OS X. This is not an uncommon problem - I've seen it a handful of times. Excel for OS X is at about 90+% parity with Excel for Windows. This only bites you occasionally, but when you are a spreadsheet driven org (e.g. Finance groups in a company) you often need the performance/top-end feature set of Excel for Windows.
aikah 12y ago
So it will be free for everybody in summer right ?
reacweb 12y ago
My entreprise has migrated from XP to Win7 last year and is in no hurry to migrate again. I think the strategy of microsoft is to accelerate the migration of users, even if it is for free in order to stimulate entreprises to migrate earlier and more often.
mavhc 12y ago
At that point why not make it free for everyone, even the Pro version, charge more for CALs if you wish. You can more quickly retire older versions if the new one is free too, saves money.
jobu 12y ago
"Microsoft tackles China piracy with free upgrade to Windows 10" That's some impressive marketing spin there. To me this reads "Microsoft admits defeat to software pirates and gives Windows away for free." They may have some pretty legitimate reasons for wanting people to update to the latest OS, but giving it away for free is a massive shift for the company that lots of people call "M$"
- Cthulhu_ 12y ago
  There's probably a catch - a built-in app store where MS can earn via commission on applications, a subscription model for future updates or basic features, that kinda thing. If they did some better marketing (like Google manages to), they could call it 'combating botnets' or something.
  - cwyers 12y ago
    The app store isn't really a "catch," it's been in Windows since 8.0.
  - userbinator 12y ago
    I see this as the first steps in planning to lock-down the Windows ecosystem completely (and then extract profits from the users). I wouldn't be surprised if this "free" OS becomes unable to install applications easily except from the built-in app store, has some paid features, phones home with usage statistics, may start being ad-supported, etc... basically making the OS "freemium" software.
- spoiledtechie 12y ago
  You have to remember now, that they are making money for each game bought in the MSoft Market place. So I think that has probably helped a bit with this move.
- tracker1 12y ago
  I think it really comes down to MS not being able to backport their internet presence, and newer DirectX interfaces to older versions of windows. Software developers want to target modern browsers, and game developers want to target newer interfaces. They've doubled down on Office as a service/rental. They've doubled down on their Azure cloud services (which are pretty damned good now). They're competing against very-near free ChromeOS and Android... they're also being encroached by Apple's OSX and iOS. They had to diversify their income strategy and get windows to a loss-leader position. It makes sense. Keeping developer mindshare and their office software in place, even across platforms is far more valuable in the near term. Their long term strategy isn't too different from where the likes of IBM and Oracle have gone before, but with a bit more focus on their developer and consumer interests. As I'm using linux more frequently for a deployment target (even in Azure), and more inclined to reach for node.js (io.js) over C#.. it's nice to see MS open up software (.Net vNext) and platforms (windows) a bit more. I setup a docker container for a small C# microservice (migrating password schemes on login for accounts that were in an ASP.Net website) running .Net vNext, and it was pretty cool to be able to do.
reymus 12y ago
Well, if everyone is already using the pirated software in China, making it free means no loss in profit, but an increment in legitimate beta testing. I guess a free early release for China would make much more sense and might result in a higher quality general availability release... or do we also need to wait for Windows 10.1?
patja 12y ago
As with any MS licensing press release it is necessary to read the fine print: this is only for upgrades, so first you need to install something and then upgrade it, and only upgrades from Windows 7 and up as opposed to the more easily acquired/pirated Windows XP that is prevalent in China.
- cwyers 12y ago
  There were a lot of people trying to read the fine print about the free Windows upgrades "for one year," spinning out wild conspiracy theories about how everyone would have to pay a yearly license that turned out to be based on a misreading of some journalist's summary of what Microsoft said. If we're going to read the fine print and look for loopholes, we should wait for something more substantial than a Reuters article.
  - yohui 12y ago
    Read on Ars Technica that ZDNet's Ed Bott received confirmation from a Microsoft spokesperson. ZDNet shows a chart. Ars Technica: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/windows-10-will-be-a-free-upgrade-for-genuine-and-non-genuine-users/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/window... ZDNet: http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-to-launch-this-summer-with-free-upgrades-for-pirated-copies/ http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-to-launch-this-summe...
    - cwyers 12y ago
      From the ZDNet article you linked: > The additional detail about free upgrades for "non-genuine" (i.e., pirated) copies of Windows was a surprise, and it leaves multiple unanswered questions. Earlier, Microsoft said that consumer PCs running Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 would be entitled to free upgrades to Windows 10 for the first year after the product is released. A Microsoft spokesperson confirmed via email that the plan to allow free upgrades for non-genuine copies of Windows applies to all markets and is not limited to China. So it's not limited to China. But there are other "unanswered questions." I think it's prudent to wait for those to be answered, rather than assuming based on early news reports. Windows 10 isn't out until some nebulous summer launch anyway.
throwaway43 12y ago
Wasn't Vista supposed to have some revolutionary database like file system ? Will we ever get to see it ? EDIT: Wasn't being snarky, was just wondering if it's still in the works.
- steveklabnik 12y ago
  Long ago, when it was still called Longhorn, yes. But it ended up being cut.
  - joshuapants 12y ago
    IIRC, it got axed as a separate product but some features from it were carried over into NTFS. Similar to how Courier was killed, but they used what they learned from it to build the Surface platform.
ganessh 12y ago
I guess India will also fits into this strategy

89 points by iamben 12y ago

This move makes sense: better to have people running a legitimate copy of your latest OS than a pirated copy of a 15-year-old OS. All the better to try and convert them to paying customers of Microsoft services.

cordite 12y ago
It looks like it is windows 7 and up, not XP and such.
- jaredmcateer 12y ago
  They are making the free upgrade from Windows 7 and up globally, but this article seems to imply they are going to make an exception for China and make the upgrade free for all Windows users.
  - atlantic 12y ago
    The title does seem to imply that. What the article in fact says is that the free upgrade is being offered globally, but the motivation behind it is to re-engage with Chinese Windows users who have an unlicensed OS.
  - jsight 12y ago
    AFAIK, upgrades are only supported from Windows 7 and up regardless whether the product is paid for.
    - morganvachon 12y ago
      That makes sense, given XP can install and run decently on a machine that would choke on Windows 7, if it would even install. Minimum system requirements are still a thing, and as light and efficient as Windows 10 is, it's not meant for 2001 era technology.
iamben 12y ago
Bill himself said in the 90s - "About 3 million computers get sold every year in China, but people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though. As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade."
- omh 12y ago
  Interestingly, that quote is from almost 17 years ago and they don't quite seem to have figured out how to "collect" yet.
  - mariusmg 12y ago
    No rush, it's not like MS is running out of money :)
    - melling 12y ago
      And they've prevented hundreds of millions of people from going with a different OS, thus eliminating potential threats.
      - higherpurpose 12y ago
        Unfortunately. I think if the Chinese government forced/encouraged everyone to go Linux a long time ago, instead of having to pirate Windows, the Linux ecosystem of programs would be much richer, too. And OEMs wouldn't release 99% of their machines with Windows on them by default. This way we would've had competition on the desktop and in the browser market way before Android and iOS started appearing on tablets.
        ttty 12y ago
        Only if linux would work out of the box, no driver issues, no need to change files with root... more user friendly.. They decided to make linux for the tech people
userbinator 12y ago
The subsequent versions of Windows are far more locked-down/limited with respect to user control and customisation than XP, which is likely why it lasted for so long.
- JBiserkov 12y ago
  How do you mean?

yc1010 12y ago

How would someone prove they are from China? It surely can not be just ip address or language setting based

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
toxican 12y ago
Read the article. They don't care where you're from. If your copy isn't legit, you can upgrade to a legit copy of 10. >"We are upgrading all qualified PCs, genuine and non-genuine, to Windows 10,"

sp332 12y ago

OK everybody, time to pirate Win7!

unicornporn 12y ago

So, this effectively means that Windows 10 will be free(ware). This also means that Microsoft will have to make up for lost profits. Apple makes money from hardware, Micrsoft made money by selling their OS. Seems they are going the service/Google way as they will also be giving away roms for a Xiaomi phone[1]. [1] http://www.windowscentral.com/more-details-emerge-how-xiaomi-windows-10-preview-will-be-distributed http://www.windowscentral.com/more-details-emerge-how-xiaomi...

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
jussij 12y ago
> Microsoft made money by selling their OS I think Microsoft cash cow is their Office Suite. To run that suite you still need a Microsoft OS and recently their Office 365 cloud version is also showing strong growth.
- tim333 12y ago
  I imagine Microsoft still make a good bit of cash from OS sales but mostly from manufacturers buying in bulk for new PCs, not so much from individual upgrades. It's the individual upgrades they are giving for free. Dunno if it's China only or if we can get them elsewhere?
- superuser2 12y ago
  >to run that suite you still need a Microsoft OS False. http://www.microsoft.com/mac/office-university http://www.microsoft.com/mac/office-university
  - couradical 12y ago
    That works until you get into anything complicated. Recently, I had a spreadsheet that our finance team built that provided different calculated values (for a multi table aggregation, nothing simple for sure) on Excel Windows and Excel OS X. This is not an uncommon problem - I've seen it a handful of times. Excel for OS X is at about 90+% parity with Excel for Windows. This only bites you occasionally, but when you are a spreadsheet driven org (e.g. Finance groups in a company) you often need the performance/top-end feature set of Excel for Windows.

aikah 12y ago

So it will be free for everybody in summer right ?

reacweb 12y ago

My entreprise has migrated from XP to Win7 last year and is in no hurry to migrate again. I think the strategy of microsoft is to accelerate the migration of users, even if it is for free in order to stimulate entreprises to migrate earlier and more often.

mavhc 12y ago

At that point why not make it free for everyone, even the Pro version, charge more for CALs if you wish. You can more quickly retire older versions if the new one is free too, saves money.

jobu 12y ago

"Microsoft tackles China piracy with free upgrade to Windows 10" That's some impressive marketing spin there. To me this reads "Microsoft admits defeat to software pirates and gives Windows away for free." They may have some pretty legitimate reasons for wanting people to update to the latest OS, but giving it away for free is a massive shift for the company that lots of people call "M$"

Cthulhu_ 12y ago
There's probably a catch - a built-in app store where MS can earn via commission on applications, a subscription model for future updates or basic features, that kinda thing. If they did some better marketing (like Google manages to), they could call it 'combating botnets' or something.
- cwyers 12y ago
  The app store isn't really a "catch," it's been in Windows since 8.0.
- userbinator 12y ago
  I see this as the first steps in planning to lock-down the Windows ecosystem completely (and then extract profits from the users). I wouldn't be surprised if this "free" OS becomes unable to install applications easily except from the built-in app store, has some paid features, phones home with usage statistics, may start being ad-supported, etc... basically making the OS "freemium" software.
spoiledtechie 12y ago
You have to remember now, that they are making money for each game bought in the MSoft Market place. So I think that has probably helped a bit with this move.
tracker1 12y ago
I think it really comes down to MS not being able to backport their internet presence, and newer DirectX interfaces to older versions of windows. Software developers want to target modern browsers, and game developers want to target newer interfaces. They've doubled down on Office as a service/rental. They've doubled down on their Azure cloud services (which are pretty damned good now). They're competing against very-near free ChromeOS and Android... they're also being encroached by Apple's OSX and iOS. They had to diversify their income strategy and get windows to a loss-leader position. It makes sense. Keeping developer mindshare and their office software in place, even across platforms is far more valuable in the near term. Their long term strategy isn't too different from where the likes of IBM and Oracle have gone before, but with a bit more focus on their developer and consumer interests. As I'm using linux more frequently for a deployment target (even in Azure), and more inclined to reach for node.js (io.js) over C#.. it's nice to see MS open up software (.Net vNext) and platforms (windows) a bit more. I setup a docker container for a small C# microservice (migrating password schemes on login for accounts that were in an ASP.Net website) running .Net vNext, and it was pretty cool to be able to do.

reymus 12y ago

Well, if everyone is already using the pirated software in China, making it free means no loss in profit, but an increment in legitimate beta testing. I guess a free early release for China would make much more sense and might result in a higher quality general availability release... or do we also need to wait for Windows 10.1?

patja 12y ago

As with any MS licensing press release it is necessary to read the fine print: this is only for upgrades, so first you need to install something and then upgrade it, and only upgrades from Windows 7 and up as opposed to the more easily acquired/pirated Windows XP that is prevalent in China.

cwyers 12y ago
There were a lot of people trying to read the fine print about the free Windows upgrades "for one year," spinning out wild conspiracy theories about how everyone would have to pay a yearly license that turned out to be based on a misreading of some journalist's summary of what Microsoft said. If we're going to read the fine print and look for loopholes, we should wait for something more substantial than a Reuters article.
- yohui 12y ago
  Read on Ars Technica that ZDNet's Ed Bott received confirmation from a Microsoft spokesperson. ZDNet shows a chart. Ars Technica: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/windows-10-will-be-a-free-upgrade-for-genuine-and-non-genuine-users/ http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/window... ZDNet: http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-to-launch-this-summer-with-free-upgrades-for-pirated-copies/ http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-to-launch-this-summe...
  - cwyers 12y ago
    From the ZDNet article you linked: > The additional detail about free upgrades for "non-genuine" (i.e., pirated) copies of Windows was a surprise, and it leaves multiple unanswered questions. Earlier, Microsoft said that consumer PCs running Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 would be entitled to free upgrades to Windows 10 for the first year after the product is released. A Microsoft spokesperson confirmed via email that the plan to allow free upgrades for non-genuine copies of Windows applies to all markets and is not limited to China. So it's not limited to China. But there are other "unanswered questions." I think it's prudent to wait for those to be answered, rather than assuming based on early news reports. Windows 10 isn't out until some nebulous summer launch anyway.

throwaway43 12y ago

Wasn't Vista supposed to have some revolutionary database like file system ? Will we ever get to see it ? EDIT: Wasn't being snarky, was just wondering if it's still in the works.

steveklabnik 12y ago
Long ago, when it was still called Longhorn, yes. But it ended up being cut.
- joshuapants 12y ago
  IIRC, it got axed as a separate product but some features from it were carried over into NTFS. Similar to how Courier was killed, but they used what they learned from it to build the Surface platform.

ganessh 12y ago

I guess India will also fits into this strategy