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I disagree with this sentiment. Suicide rates this high are not acceptable side effects of simply studying engineering. Yes, it's typically a tough program, but

I disagree with this sentiment. Suicide rates this high are not acceptable side effects of simply studying engineering. Yes, it's typically a tough program, but action needs to be taken to address a deeper issue. It's the intense pressure to succeed in an environment where stress is worn as a badge of honor that creates these issues, not the academic rigor of studying science/engineering.

hharnisch 12y ago
These disciplines attract a certain type of personality and are often people of high intelligence. Suicide rates among these cohorts is elevated to begin with. I don't know if it's enough to make up for an extra 4 per 100,000, but I can't help but wonder.
- amelius 12y ago
  Interesting point. It turns out that introvert personalities are more commonly seen on suicidal forums. Closer inspection reveals that introvert intuitive (IN) type of personalities rank by far highest in suicidal thoughts by this measure, with the exception of INFJ types [1] [1] http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=74782 http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=74782
- DanBC 12y ago
  So what? The attitude should be to aim for zero death by suicide. That's acheivable for places like MIT. It's fucking scandalous that MIT tolerates such a high level of death by suicide.
  - pdonis 12y ago
    > The attitude should be to aim for zero death by suicide. That's acheivable for places like MIT. I agree zero should be the goal, but I don't think it's necessarily achievable. There are multiple factors involved, and the school only controls some of them. Some of them aren't really controllable. (There were multiple suicides at MIT while I was there; none of them were simple cases of "the school didn't pay enough attention".)
    - DanBC 12y ago
      Detroit mental health services achieved a zero suicide rate among their patient population -- a group with higher than normal rates of suicide. http://www.henryford.com/body.cfm?id=46335&action=detail&ref=1104 http://www.henryford.com/body.cfm?id=46335&action=detail&ref... If they can do it then a university can definitely do it. I do understand the sentiment behind "zero is the aim, but pragmatically we can't stop all suicides", but that attitude allows people to die. Even if we do accept that we can't stop every death by suicide we can say that the rate is currently far too high. As one example: People have mentioned deaths from tall buildings. Research shows that you can reduce suicide rates by restricting access to means and methods, so better access[1] controls to rooftops, with anti-suicide fencing, and suicide-prevention telephone number signs, will reduce the numbers of people dying by suicide.
      - pdonis 12y ago
        > If they can do it then a university can definitely do it. I'm not sure how comparable the two situations are, although there are certainly measures in the article you linked to that could be applied anywhere. The two populations in question (Detroit mental health services patients vs. MIT students) are very different, as are the environments. > better access controls to rooftops This was done while I was at MIT, but I think the controls were relaxed again some years after I left. One of the issues with any institution over time is that different administrations have different priorities, and often change things for no good reason. MIT, unfortunately, is not immune to this problem.
- eitally 12y ago
  And besides that, it selects for a population subset of high achieving teens who have been pressured their entire lives by overbearing parents to have passion for math & science/engineering. They may absolutely have no interest whatsoever, but their "tiger parents" helped them achieve to get in and now they're in deep water with no life boat.

hharnisch 12y ago

These disciplines attract a certain type of personality and are often people of high intelligence. Suicide rates among these cohorts is elevated to begin with. I don't know if it's enough to make up for an extra 4 per 100,000, but I can't help but wonder.

amelius 12y ago
Interesting point. It turns out that introvert personalities are more commonly seen on suicidal forums. Closer inspection reveals that introvert intuitive (IN) type of personalities rank by far highest in suicidal thoughts by this measure, with the exception of INFJ types [1] [1] http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=74782 http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=74782
DanBC 12y ago
So what? The attitude should be to aim for zero death by suicide. That's acheivable for places like MIT. It's fucking scandalous that MIT tolerates such a high level of death by suicide.
- pdonis 12y ago
  > The attitude should be to aim for zero death by suicide. That's acheivable for places like MIT. I agree zero should be the goal, but I don't think it's necessarily achievable. There are multiple factors involved, and the school only controls some of them. Some of them aren't really controllable. (There were multiple suicides at MIT while I was there; none of them were simple cases of "the school didn't pay enough attention".)
  - DanBC 12y ago
    Detroit mental health services achieved a zero suicide rate among their patient population -- a group with higher than normal rates of suicide. http://www.henryford.com/body.cfm?id=46335&action=detail&ref=1104 http://www.henryford.com/body.cfm?id=46335&action=detail&ref... If they can do it then a university can definitely do it. I do understand the sentiment behind "zero is the aim, but pragmatically we can't stop all suicides", but that attitude allows people to die. Even if we do accept that we can't stop every death by suicide we can say that the rate is currently far too high. As one example: People have mentioned deaths from tall buildings. Research shows that you can reduce suicide rates by restricting access to means and methods, so better access[1] controls to rooftops, with anti-suicide fencing, and suicide-prevention telephone number signs, will reduce the numbers of people dying by suicide.
    - pdonis 12y ago
      > If they can do it then a university can definitely do it. I'm not sure how comparable the two situations are, although there are certainly measures in the article you linked to that could be applied anywhere. The two populations in question (Detroit mental health services patients vs. MIT students) are very different, as are the environments. > better access controls to rooftops This was done while I was at MIT, but I think the controls were relaxed again some years after I left. One of the issues with any institution over time is that different administrations have different priorities, and often change things for no good reason. MIT, unfortunately, is not immune to this problem.
eitally 12y ago
And besides that, it selects for a population subset of high achieving teens who have been pressured their entire lives by overbearing parents to have passion for math & science/engineering. They may absolutely have no interest whatsoever, but their "tiger parents" helped them achieve to get in and now they're in deep water with no life boat.