5 ms·

> If you 22 years old, fresh out of school, you are going to be writing code all day. And that's how it should be, You need to cut-your-teeth. I'm 22 years old

by Fiahil 12y ago

> If you 22 years old, fresh out of school, you are going to be writing code all day. And that's how it should be, You need to cut-your-teeth. I'm 22 years old, fresh out of school and I'm as involved in design, recruiting and peer reviews as my older peers. And that's how it should be. Why? Because age has nothing to do with productivity, understanding or ability to come up with simple, elegant and maintainable designs.

mediascreen 12y ago
While age might not have anything to do with productivity, experience definitely has. Especially when it comes to recognizing which problems are worth solving and giving (appropriate) pushback to product owners and managers.
nickynix 12y ago
Experience has a lot to do with productivity, understanding, and the ability to come up with simple, elegant, and maintainable designs. The "22 years old, fresh out of school" programmer is more pointed at the inexperienced individual rather than age itself. I would say the same comments could apply equally to 38-year old programmers that just started work after graduating from a hacker school. The fact is, when so many problems are merely iterations of previous ones, how can you ignore the wisdom of people that have been doing the same work for 20-30 years? It's ludicrous to believe that the contributions coming from a fresh grad with no practical experience will be on par with the quality of the solutions from programmers much more experienced.
LBarret 12y ago
Age and experience have everything to do to come up with efficient software architectures, except on trivial problems. Every coder I know (and I know 2 that are world class) look at his/her old code with regrets, and a kind an awe saying "What I was thinking ?". You will improve with time. Coding is no different than any skill.
hueving 12y ago
So you have no experience and you are just as involved in design? I could see that maybe for UX, but not for engineering. Either your entire team is inexperienced or they are just patronizing you.
- tcoff91 12y ago
  Fresh out of school does not necessarily mean "no experience." Many students have written a lot of software before even entering college, and then work as developers during school, leaving with 2-3 years of development experience.
- Fiahil 12y ago
  Or maybe I'm involved in design because I've proved I can handle complexity, know when an abstraction would be needed, and got good fitting ideas to work my way out of a problem. If schools don't teach you that, what's their purpose? (genuine question, I'm from a "special" school in France, and I've definitively been trained with that goal in mind (ie: gathering real world experience))
xendo 12y ago
Experience on the other hand has a lot to do with all those things.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
seanmcdirmid 12y ago
Think of it as an apprenticeship: university doesn't give you the experience to jump in as a senior dev, but you'll eventually get there with practice and mentorship from an experienced dev. Every 22 year old thinks they can do everything just as well coming out of school...very rarely are they right, and looking back just 5 years later provides a lot of different perspective.

by Fiahil 12y ago

mediascreen 12y ago

While age might not have anything to do with productivity, experience definitely has. Especially when it comes to recognizing which problems are worth solving and giving (appropriate) pushback to product owners and managers.

nickynix 12y ago

Experience has a lot to do with productivity, understanding, and the ability to come up with simple, elegant, and maintainable designs. The "22 years old, fresh out of school" programmer is more pointed at the inexperienced individual rather than age itself. I would say the same comments could apply equally to 38-year old programmers that just started work after graduating from a hacker school. The fact is, when so many problems are merely iterations of previous ones, how can you ignore the wisdom of people that have been doing the same work for 20-30 years? It's ludicrous to believe that the contributions coming from a fresh grad with no practical experience will be on par with the quality of the solutions from programmers much more experienced.

LBarret 12y ago

Age and experience have everything to do to come up with efficient software architectures, except on trivial problems. Every coder I know (and I know 2 that are world class) look at his/her old code with regrets, and a kind an awe saying "What I was thinking ?". You will improve with time. Coding is no different than any skill.

hueving 12y ago

So you have no experience and you are just as involved in design? I could see that maybe for UX, but not for engineering. Either your entire team is inexperienced or they are just patronizing you.

tcoff91 12y ago
Fresh out of school does not necessarily mean "no experience." Many students have written a lot of software before even entering college, and then work as developers during school, leaving with 2-3 years of development experience.
Fiahil 12y ago
Or maybe I'm involved in design because I've proved I can handle complexity, know when an abstraction would be needed, and got good fitting ideas to work my way out of a problem. If schools don't teach you that, what's their purpose? (genuine question, I'm from a "special" school in France, and I've definitively been trained with that goal in mind (ie: gathering real world experience))

xendo 12y ago

Experience on the other hand has a lot to do with all those things.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

seanmcdirmid 12y ago

Think of it as an apprenticeship: university doesn't give you the experience to jump in as a senior dev, but you'll eventually get there with practice and mentorship from an experienced dev. Every 22 year old thinks they can do everything just as well coming out of school...very rarely are they right, and looking back just 5 years later provides a lot of different perspective.