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I love to write code. And it's about 20% of my job. As an engineer, I spend most of my time in design (and meetings). The code is the fun, relaxing part. Many

by crag 12y ago

I love to write code. And it's about 20% of my job. As an engineer, I spend most of my time in design (and meetings). The code is the fun, relaxing part. Many times, I don't even write code; I "review" code. We have "grunts" (younger programmers, usually) who pump out code all day. They're are involved in design too, of course. But in a very limited way. But you know, I think all of this comes with age. If you 22 years old, fresh out of school, you are going to be writing code all day. And that's how it should be, You need to cut-your-teeth. Also, one last thought, just being a [overly] productive programmer doesn't make you a good programmer. I'd rather someone take there time, be comfortable and get it right. But I have met that rare bird, who is confortable writing code 18 hours a day.

Fiahil 12y ago
> If you 22 years old, fresh out of school, you are going to be writing code all day. And that's how it should be, You need to cut-your-teeth. I'm 22 years old, fresh out of school and I'm as involved in design, recruiting and peer reviews as my older peers. And that's how it should be. Why? Because age has nothing to do with productivity, understanding or ability to come up with simple, elegant and maintainable designs.
- mediascreen 12y ago
  While age might not have anything to do with productivity, experience definitely has. Especially when it comes to recognizing which problems are worth solving and giving (appropriate) pushback to product owners and managers.
- nickynix 12y ago
  Experience has a lot to do with productivity, understanding, and the ability to come up with simple, elegant, and maintainable designs. The "22 years old, fresh out of school" programmer is more pointed at the inexperienced individual rather than age itself. I would say the same comments could apply equally to 38-year old programmers that just started work after graduating from a hacker school. The fact is, when so many problems are merely iterations of previous ones, how can you ignore the wisdom of people that have been doing the same work for 20-30 years? It's ludicrous to believe that the contributions coming from a fresh grad with no practical experience will be on par with the quality of the solutions from programmers much more experienced.
- LBarret 12y ago
  Age and experience have everything to do to come up with efficient software architectures, except on trivial problems. Every coder I know (and I know 2 that are world class) look at his/her old code with regrets, and a kind an awe saying "What I was thinking ?". You will improve with time. Coding is no different than any skill.
- hueving 12y ago
  So you have no experience and you are just as involved in design? I could see that maybe for UX, but not for engineering. Either your entire team is inexperienced or they are just patronizing you.
  - tcoff91 12y ago
    Fresh out of school does not necessarily mean "no experience." Many students have written a lot of software before even entering college, and then work as developers during school, leaving with 2-3 years of development experience.
  - Fiahil 12y ago
    Or maybe I'm involved in design because I've proved I can handle complexity, know when an abstraction would be needed, and got good fitting ideas to work my way out of a problem. If schools don't teach you that, what's their purpose? (genuine question, I'm from a "special" school in France, and I've definitively been trained with that goal in mind (ie: gathering real world experience))
- xendo 12y ago
  Experience on the other hand has a lot to do with all those things.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  Think of it as an apprenticeship: university doesn't give you the experience to jump in as a senior dev, but you'll eventually get there with practice and mentorship from an experienced dev. Every 22 year old thinks they can do everything just as well coming out of school...very rarely are they right, and looking back just 5 years later provides a lot of different perspective.
LBarret 12y ago
mmm... your comment has a good solid sound/vibe to it. I am curious where are you working ?

by crag 12y ago

Fiahil 12y ago

> If you 22 years old, fresh out of school, you are going to be writing code all day. And that's how it should be, You need to cut-your-teeth. I'm 22 years old, fresh out of school and I'm as involved in design, recruiting and peer reviews as my older peers. And that's how it should be. Why? Because age has nothing to do with productivity, understanding or ability to come up with simple, elegant and maintainable designs.

mediascreen 12y ago
While age might not have anything to do with productivity, experience definitely has. Especially when it comes to recognizing which problems are worth solving and giving (appropriate) pushback to product owners and managers.
nickynix 12y ago
Experience has a lot to do with productivity, understanding, and the ability to come up with simple, elegant, and maintainable designs. The "22 years old, fresh out of school" programmer is more pointed at the inexperienced individual rather than age itself. I would say the same comments could apply equally to 38-year old programmers that just started work after graduating from a hacker school. The fact is, when so many problems are merely iterations of previous ones, how can you ignore the wisdom of people that have been doing the same work for 20-30 years? It's ludicrous to believe that the contributions coming from a fresh grad with no practical experience will be on par with the quality of the solutions from programmers much more experienced.
LBarret 12y ago
Age and experience have everything to do to come up with efficient software architectures, except on trivial problems. Every coder I know (and I know 2 that are world class) look at his/her old code with regrets, and a kind an awe saying "What I was thinking ?". You will improve with time. Coding is no different than any skill.
hueving 12y ago
So you have no experience and you are just as involved in design? I could see that maybe for UX, but not for engineering. Either your entire team is inexperienced or they are just patronizing you.
- tcoff91 12y ago
  Fresh out of school does not necessarily mean "no experience." Many students have written a lot of software before even entering college, and then work as developers during school, leaving with 2-3 years of development experience.
- Fiahil 12y ago
  Or maybe I'm involved in design because I've proved I can handle complexity, know when an abstraction would be needed, and got good fitting ideas to work my way out of a problem. If schools don't teach you that, what's their purpose? (genuine question, I'm from a "special" school in France, and I've definitively been trained with that goal in mind (ie: gathering real world experience))
xendo 12y ago
Experience on the other hand has a lot to do with all those things.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
seanmcdirmid 12y ago
Think of it as an apprenticeship: university doesn't give you the experience to jump in as a senior dev, but you'll eventually get there with practice and mentorship from an experienced dev. Every 22 year old thinks they can do everything just as well coming out of school...very rarely are they right, and looking back just 5 years later provides a lot of different perspective.

LBarret 12y ago

mmm... your comment has a good solid sound/vibe to it. I am curious where are you working ?