3 ms·

> They have a high level of control over their work. No, they don't. They are told when to pick up their passengers, and which route to drive, by their employe

> They have a high level of control over their work. No, they don't. They are told when to pick up their passengers, and which route to drive, by their employers. They may not deviate from that route, they may not pick up passengers without Uber's say-so. They may not decline passengers without being penalised. While they are signed in to Uber, precisely what control do they have over their work? Additionally, "complete specific jobs over a limited period of time that fall outside the usual scope of their current employer’s business" means that the test falls on the side of being a contractor if you are doing a one-off job that is not usually what the company does, and an employee otherwise. The point is, a contractor is that person you bring in to write code for your SAP system, or fix the IT infrastructure, or build a new building, or program the A/C. Things where you give the contractor a task, and they complete it using their knowledge, where you don't get to define the specifics of how it's done. If you want control over precisely how they do their job, and it's part of what makes the company money on a day-to-day basis (you can argue that Uber are selling their software platform all you want, but the service it actually provides is getting you a taxi, not access to its software), I don't see how they're not employees.

Dylan16807 12y ago
>They are told when to pick up their passengers, and which route to drive, by their employers. They may not deviate from that route, they may not pick up passengers without Uber's say-so. While they are signed in to Uber, precisely what control do they have over their work? Told when to enter in a period they signaled as available, told what areas they are allowed to walk in, no other visitors... All of that could apply equally well to someone contracted to fix the A/C. The drivers choose when and where to work. Most of what they lack control over is in the definition of the job, driving people to destinations. (Are you sure they have to follow a specific route?) The main thing they can't control is which specific person to pick up. That's pretty minor all in all. Your argument about having to "complete specific jobs over a limited period of time that fall outside the usual scope of their current employer’s business" is much stronger, but I don't think level of control over the work is going to get very far.
dnautics 12y ago
> They may not deviate from that route, they may not pick up passengers without Uber's say-so. Come again? > They may not decline passengers without being penalised. The penalty is trivial. Sure, repeated declines are grounds for termination, but you really have to do a lot. When I was dual-driving for lyft and uber, I think I racked nearly 20-30% rejection rates on uber, they didn't even warn me that I was doing poorly and I think I'm still a "highly regarded" driver on their system.
pbreit 12y ago
The passengers tell them when to pick up. They can drive any route they want. Few driver's use Uber's directions and Lyft/Sidecar don't even offer turn-by-turn directions. Of course they can deviate from any route (passengers frequently request specific routes). Yes, the companies reward for maintaining a low decline rate (sensible). The contractors you describe frequently have less control. Many have to show up to the office, attend meetings, produce deliverables continuously, complete projects under specific terms and timeframes, etc.
fancyketchup 12y ago
Anecdotally, what you're saying simply isn't true on many counts. On my twice-weekly airport run, I usually ask the drivers what they think of Lyft and Uber. Their characterization of the relationship is diametrically opposed to what you wrote. One of the benefits I hear most frequently mentioned is being able to simply shut off the app any time they like (while not actively carrying a passenger, of course). Drivers, in other words, have complete control over their working hours. In addition, drivers, not Uber/Lyft choose where to work: They can hang around the airport, downtown, or out in the suburbs. Drivers are also not penalized for refusing individual fares--only for refusing greater than some threshold fraction of fares offered. Uber. Uber and Lyft do not prescribe the route a driver must follow, either. The app does offer a suggested route (which is not usually the best on Uber--maps in their driver app are notoriously poor), but the driver and passenger have the flexibility to use a different one. This is how it works in practice, and frankly it seems to me that they are bona-fide contractors.

Dylan16807 12y ago

>They are told when to pick up their passengers, and which route to drive, by their employers. They may not deviate from that route, they may not pick up passengers without Uber's say-so. While they are signed in to Uber, precisely what control do they have over their work? Told when to enter in a period they signaled as available, told what areas they are allowed to walk in, no other visitors... All of that could apply equally well to someone contracted to fix the A/C. The drivers choose when and where to work. Most of what they lack control over is in the definition of the job, driving people to destinations. (Are you sure they have to follow a specific route?) The main thing they can't control is which specific person to pick up. That's pretty minor all in all. Your argument about having to "complete specific jobs over a limited period of time that fall outside the usual scope of their current employer’s business" is much stronger, but I don't think level of control over the work is going to get very far.

dnautics 12y ago

> They may not deviate from that route, they may not pick up passengers without Uber's say-so. Come again? > They may not decline passengers without being penalised. The penalty is trivial. Sure, repeated declines are grounds for termination, but you really have to do a lot. When I was dual-driving for lyft and uber, I think I racked nearly 20-30% rejection rates on uber, they didn't even warn me that I was doing poorly and I think I'm still a "highly regarded" driver on their system.

pbreit 12y ago

The passengers tell them when to pick up. They can drive any route they want. Few driver's use Uber's directions and Lyft/Sidecar don't even offer turn-by-turn directions. Of course they can deviate from any route (passengers frequently request specific routes). Yes, the companies reward for maintaining a low decline rate (sensible). The contractors you describe frequently have less control. Many have to show up to the office, attend meetings, produce deliverables continuously, complete projects under specific terms and timeframes, etc.

fancyketchup 12y ago

Anecdotally, what you're saying simply isn't true on many counts. On my twice-weekly airport run, I usually ask the drivers what they think of Lyft and Uber. Their characterization of the relationship is diametrically opposed to what you wrote. One of the benefits I hear most frequently mentioned is being able to simply shut off the app any time they like (while not actively carrying a passenger, of course). Drivers, in other words, have complete control over their working hours. In addition, drivers, not Uber/Lyft choose where to work: They can hang around the airport, downtown, or out in the suburbs. Drivers are also not penalized for refusing individual fares--only for refusing greater than some threshold fraction of fares offered. Uber. Uber and Lyft do not prescribe the route a driver must follow, either. The app does offer a suggested route (which is not usually the best on Uber--maps in their driver app are notoriously poor), but the driver and passenger have the flexibility to use a different one. This is how it works in practice, and frankly it seems to me that they are bona-fide contractors.