5 ms·

Contracts typically have a term length.

rodgerd 12y ago
As a Kiwi it seems bizarro land - you have to have cause to fire someone in permanent employment, but you can (generally) end contracts prematurely with appropriate terms.
- jsprogrammer 12y ago
  What exactly is a contract if it doesn't have a length attached to it? In most US states it is legal to have, and most companies do have, policies that state something to the effect (and yes, it's often in all caps): EMPLOYMENT RELATIONSHIP IS AT WILL, NEITHER PARTY HAS ANY OBLIGATIONS TO THE OTHER PARTY AND EITHER PARTY CAN TERMINATE THE RELATIONSHIP AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON.
  - Dylan16807 12y ago
    Almost every transaction I perform in life is a contract with no length attached. A contract is agreed-upon terms for trading goods/services. It's a refreshingly simple part of law, as long as you stay away from real estate. The terms don't have to be anything more complex than "these things, right now, done".
    - jsprogrammer 12y ago
      There's always a time attached, even if it's instantaneous. The contract describes either the duration of the service or the moment in time the transaction occurs.
      - Dylan16807 12y ago
        Sure, however you want to word it. Point is there are no obligations to maintain the relationship on either side.
  - jobigoud 12y ago
    This notion is extremely foreign to me as a French and I think most of Europe (except UK) find this type of clause completely abusive. Our standard employment contract here is the CDI : contract of indeterminate duration. Both parties have an incompressible time window to respect if they want to terminate the contract, usually several weeks.
    - iamflimflam1 12y ago
      Standard in the UK is one months notice on both sides - I've never had a contract that stated anything shorter and have had friends who have been on 3-6 months notice period. Though it looks like the Statutory notice period can be less. https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/notice-periods https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/notice-periods
      - vidarh 12y ago
        In Norway it is near impossible to create a valid employment contract for full time workers with less than 3 months notice (doesn't matter what the contract says, on the basis of the principle that employers are expected to have massively more power during negotiation; you can deviate from it, but it generally requires consideration above and beyond the potentially lost pay). In general employees not only have the right to keep getting paid, but have a legal right to continue to carry out their duties unless there are specific circumstances (e.g. they've been fired for gross negligence or for losing an essential license). The right to work was even embedded in the 1814 constitution, though that right is pretty tooth-less. Moving to the UK was a major culture shock. The US seems like a different planet.
- Dylan16807 12y ago
  It's such a weird argument. The business is demonstrating a weaker bind to the workers by making everything at will on both sides, so that implies giving the workers benefits? Most of the other factors make sense.
ptaipale 12y ago
There are often two contracts that are valid at the same time, covering different aspects: - frame contracts, which outline the overall way in which parties work together, not necessarily having a term length - specific assignment contracts (which specify a given task, its duration, responsibilities, deliverables, etc) and these have a definite term length (i.e. it's about moving a customer from place A to place B). I would say that the overall contract between Uber and a driver is like a frame contract. It lists a number of conditions, for instance the methods for initiating and approving individual transport contracts. And then there are the individual transport assignments, each of which is a specific contract. Are they contracts between Uber and the driver, or contracts between the customer and the driver? I don't know. (IANAL, I have just been dealing with these types of contracts in my work for many years).

As a Kiwi it seems bizarro land - you have to have cause to fire someone in permanent employment, but you can (generally) end contracts prematurely with appropriate terms.

jsprogrammer 12y ago
What exactly is a contract if it doesn't have a length attached to it? In most US states it is legal to have, and most companies do have, policies that state something to the effect (and yes, it's often in all caps): EMPLOYMENT RELATIONSHIP IS AT WILL, NEITHER PARTY HAS ANY OBLIGATIONS TO THE OTHER PARTY AND EITHER PARTY CAN TERMINATE THE RELATIONSHIP AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON.
- Dylan16807 12y ago
  Almost every transaction I perform in life is a contract with no length attached. A contract is agreed-upon terms for trading goods/services. It's a refreshingly simple part of law, as long as you stay away from real estate. The terms don't have to be anything more complex than "these things, right now, done".
  - jsprogrammer 12y ago
    There's always a time attached, even if it's instantaneous. The contract describes either the duration of the service or the moment in time the transaction occurs.
    - Dylan16807 12y ago
      Sure, however you want to word it. Point is there are no obligations to maintain the relationship on either side.
- jobigoud 12y ago
  This notion is extremely foreign to me as a French and I think most of Europe (except UK) find this type of clause completely abusive. Our standard employment contract here is the CDI : contract of indeterminate duration. Both parties have an incompressible time window to respect if they want to terminate the contract, usually several weeks.
  - iamflimflam1 12y ago
    Standard in the UK is one months notice on both sides - I've never had a contract that stated anything shorter and have had friends who have been on 3-6 months notice period. Though it looks like the Statutory notice period can be less. https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/notice-periods https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/notice-periods
    - vidarh 12y ago
      In Norway it is near impossible to create a valid employment contract for full time workers with less than 3 months notice (doesn't matter what the contract says, on the basis of the principle that employers are expected to have massively more power during negotiation; you can deviate from it, but it generally requires consideration above and beyond the potentially lost pay). In general employees not only have the right to keep getting paid, but have a legal right to continue to carry out their duties unless there are specific circumstances (e.g. they've been fired for gross negligence or for losing an essential license). The right to work was even embedded in the 1814 constitution, though that right is pretty tooth-less. Moving to the UK was a major culture shock. The US seems like a different planet.
Dylan16807 12y ago
It's such a weird argument. The business is demonstrating a weaker bind to the workers by making everything at will on both sides, so that implies giving the workers benefits? Most of the other factors make sense.

ptaipale 12y ago

There are often two contracts that are valid at the same time, covering different aspects: - frame contracts, which outline the overall way in which parties work together, not necessarily having a term length - specific assignment contracts (which specify a given task, its duration, responsibilities, deliverables, etc) and these have a definite term length (i.e. it's about moving a customer from place A to place B). I would say that the overall contract between Uber and a driver is like a frame contract. It lists a number of conditions, for instance the methods for initiating and approving individual transport contracts. And then there are the individual transport assignments, each of which is a specific contract. Are they contracts between Uber and the driver, or contracts between the customer and the driver? I don't know. (IANAL, I have just been dealing with these types of contracts in my work for many years).