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> one of the best health care in the world Are you serious? Check the poor cancer survival rates in UK compared to the rest of world: "Since that time, cancer

> one of the best health care in the world Are you serious? Check the poor cancer survival rates in UK compared to the rest of world: "Since that time, cancer survival rates in England have been steadily improving for but we (Department of Health spokesman) accept that there is further work to do to reduce the gap between us and the rest of northern and western Europe and America." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7510121.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7510121.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6955545.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6955545.stm

bilbo0s 17y ago
Uh . . . Had to call this one. Full Disclosure: Cancer Researcher here. I looked into how to analyze data over time to elicit better outcomes in a former life. Cancer is a hard problem, REALLY hard. Hematological Cancers as well, super hard. It is less than wise to judge a health care system by its ability to treat cancer. Literally, there are often times when a patient is being attended solely for the purposes of learning as much as we can before she dies. Thus, hopefully, getting us into a better position to help the next person. Let's try to confine the discussion to areas where you get the most bang for the buck. Primary care for instance. Further disclosure: I am American. Limited experience with using UK health system. So 'good' or 'bad' are assessments it would be out of place for me to make. This is simply a post to add context to the discussion.
- lupin_sansei 17y ago
  I think it's fair enough to ask how come a country that claims to have one of the best healthcare systems in the world (the UK) has such bad cancer survival rates?
  - pedrocr 17y ago
    From what I have seen about the UK system it is very much based on a cost-benefit tradeoff for treatments. Basically they do all the treatments that fit in the budget ordered by how many extra years of life expectancy each will add on average to the patient. Other countries have much less rational ways of going about it so it may very well be that on the specific case of cancer they are bellow standard just because the standard is irrationally high. Statistics about life expectancy at birth put them at number 25 slightly above the EU average and the US. They are still bellow a bunch of other European countries and of course life expectancy is a function of more than the health service itself but also the habits of the population in terms of diet, exercise, etc. Edit: According to this (random google search): http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_dea_fro_can-health-death-from-cancer http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_dea_fro_can-health-dea... The UK actually beats the US and most of Europe on the number of actual cancer deaths. So either its healthcare or its eating/exercise habits is doing enough about cancer prevention to make them perform well on general survival. Maybe they do perform badly once you have cancer though.
  - wisty 17y ago
    Cancer is what kills you if nothing else does. Either that or heart failure. If people are dying from TB or other easily treated (or prevented) diseases, then it's time to question the health system. Early detection is a huge factor in treatable cancers, and that might be social factors (Brits refusing to go for a checkup), rather than their health-care system. The biggest difference is between men and women; not between countries. Perhaps women are more likely to get their lumps checked?
  - Adam503 17y ago
    I think it fair to show the video of John Stewart destroying Betsy McCaughey, author of both the death panel lies and now this cancer survival rate lies. http://www.mediaite.com/tv/finally-jon-stewart-gives-betsy-mccaughey-a-polite-but-devastating-smackdown-on-the-daily-show/ http://www.mediaite.com/tv/finally-jon-stewart-gives-betsy-m... http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba596 http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba596 "...Two interesting things about this Daily Show interview with GOP health care demagogue Betsy McCaughey: (1) It was cut off in the middle, with Stewart directing viewers immediately after to the website, where the unedited second part would be waiting; and (2) Stewart patiently, politely, and firmly smacked down her exaggerations, misrepresentations and lies. I hope every other newscaster in America was watching...."
Adam503 17y ago
The author of that so-called "cancer survival rates" BS is Betsy McCaughey, the woman who invented the "death panels" nonsense. Here's link to webpage with video of John Stewart unloading on Betsy McCaughey for 2 entire segments of the Daily Show because of the "death panels" http://www.mediaite.com/tv/finally-jon-stewart-gives-betsy-mccaughey-a-polite-but-devastating-smackdown-on-the-daily-show/ http://www.mediaite.com/tv/finally-jon-stewart-gives-betsy-m...

bilbo0s 17y ago

Uh . . . Had to call this one. Full Disclosure: Cancer Researcher here. I looked into how to analyze data over time to elicit better outcomes in a former life. Cancer is a hard problem, REALLY hard. Hematological Cancers as well, super hard. It is less than wise to judge a health care system by its ability to treat cancer. Literally, there are often times when a patient is being attended solely for the purposes of learning as much as we can before she dies. Thus, hopefully, getting us into a better position to help the next person. Let's try to confine the discussion to areas where you get the most bang for the buck. Primary care for instance. Further disclosure: I am American. Limited experience with using UK health system. So 'good' or 'bad' are assessments it would be out of place for me to make. This is simply a post to add context to the discussion.

lupin_sansei 17y ago
I think it's fair enough to ask how come a country that claims to have one of the best healthcare systems in the world (the UK) has such bad cancer survival rates?
- pedrocr 17y ago
  From what I have seen about the UK system it is very much based on a cost-benefit tradeoff for treatments. Basically they do all the treatments that fit in the budget ordered by how many extra years of life expectancy each will add on average to the patient. Other countries have much less rational ways of going about it so it may very well be that on the specific case of cancer they are bellow standard just because the standard is irrationally high. Statistics about life expectancy at birth put them at number 25 slightly above the EU average and the US. They are still bellow a bunch of other European countries and of course life expectancy is a function of more than the health service itself but also the habits of the population in terms of diet, exercise, etc. Edit: According to this (random google search): http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_dea_fro_can-health-death-from-cancer http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_dea_fro_can-health-dea... The UK actually beats the US and most of Europe on the number of actual cancer deaths. So either its healthcare or its eating/exercise habits is doing enough about cancer prevention to make them perform well on general survival. Maybe they do perform badly once you have cancer though.
- wisty 17y ago
  Cancer is what kills you if nothing else does. Either that or heart failure. If people are dying from TB or other easily treated (or prevented) diseases, then it's time to question the health system. Early detection is a huge factor in treatable cancers, and that might be social factors (Brits refusing to go for a checkup), rather than their health-care system. The biggest difference is between men and women; not between countries. Perhaps women are more likely to get their lumps checked?
- Adam503 17y ago
  I think it fair to show the video of John Stewart destroying Betsy McCaughey, author of both the death panel lies and now this cancer survival rate lies. http://www.mediaite.com/tv/finally-jon-stewart-gives-betsy-mccaughey-a-polite-but-devastating-smackdown-on-the-daily-show/ http://www.mediaite.com/tv/finally-jon-stewart-gives-betsy-m... http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba596 http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba596 "...Two interesting things about this Daily Show interview with GOP health care demagogue Betsy McCaughey: (1) It was cut off in the middle, with Stewart directing viewers immediately after to the website, where the unedited second part would be waiting; and (2) Stewart patiently, politely, and firmly smacked down her exaggerations, misrepresentations and lies. I hope every other newscaster in America was watching...."

Adam503 17y ago

The author of that so-called "cancer survival rates" BS is Betsy McCaughey, the woman who invented the "death panels" nonsense. Here's link to webpage with video of John Stewart unloading on Betsy McCaughey for 2 entire segments of the Daily Show because of the "death panels" http://www.mediaite.com/tv/finally-jon-stewart-gives-betsy-mccaughey-a-polite-but-devastating-smackdown-on-the-daily-show/ http://www.mediaite.com/tv/finally-jon-stewart-gives-betsy-m...