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Show up to give a presentation anywhere in the world. Standard plug-in? VGA. Maybe HDMI. You can't count on an AirPlay connection being present and I wouldn't w

Show up to give a presentation anywhere in the world. Standard plug-in? VGA. Maybe HDMI. You can't count on an AirPlay connection being present and I wouldn't want to rely on wireless video for important presentations with 20 seconds set up time anyway.

integraton 12y ago
That particular use case is apparently not expected by Apple to be a common use case for the target market of this particular device. Fortunately, other devices with different features focused on different usage patterns are available for purchase from Apple and other manufacturers. It's strange that this is at all controversial.
- robotresearcher 12y ago
  On the contrary, it is totally expected. They sell a dongle with VGA out.
  - integraton 12y ago
    If it was expected to be a common use case, it would be included as a core feature. Furthermore, the number of people for whom "show[ing] up to give a presentation anywhere in the world" is a common use case is likely very small. I would go so far as to speculate that people in that category are greatly outnumbered by people across all demographics who use their laptops for sending emails, browsing the web, using productivity software, organizing media, and doing other software-centric tasks.
    - robotresearcher 12y ago
      Cars do not come with child seats included as a core feature. Would you say that transporting under-10s is not a common use case of a family car?
    - mintplant 12y ago
      > Furthermore, the number of people for whom "show[ing] up to give a presentation anywhere in the world" is a common use case is likely very small. College students? It's always a big hassle finding a dongle whenever a MacBook user has to give a presentation in class.
gedejong 12y ago
True, but since Macs have lost the ports, better venues are finally starting to cater to modern standards. Personally, I think VGA is an abomination and people should react a bit stronger to be invited to a venue and having to deal with standards from 1987.
- robotresearcher 12y ago
  I think guests should graciously work with whatever hosts provide, as long as it works.
  - acveilleux 12y ago
    The thing is, it doesn't. It requires the device to be able to do a Digital to Analog conversion. In modern graphics chipsets, that capability is only needed for legacy compatibility with CRTs and old projectors. If you speak VGA to a projector or any flat panel monitor, you're really just feeding an Analog to Digital converter. It's nuts.
  - largote 12y ago
    VGA has lower quality at high resolutions than something like DVI, DisplayPort, or HDMI. Then again, if the place still has a VGA connector, it's unlikely the projector is high-resolution.
    - robotresearcher 12y ago
      Yes. So as a guest do you make the best of it or whine that there are better things available?
      - saraid216 12y ago
        Being a good host is also kind of a thing, FYI, and part of that is going to the effort of making life nice for your guest. If you're going to harp on hospitality, please remember it cuts both ways.
sswaner 12y ago
That is an atypical scenario unless your job requires frequent presentation. Even then, you are used to having an adapter in your bag or pocket. To me, this is a great tradeoff: I get a lighter and thinner laptop for 100% of my computing, the downside being an adapter when I return the the dark ages of VGA connectors. In fact, for my MacBook Pro, I will have fewer connections. Instead of power and Thunderbolt, I will just get one of the connectors that bridges power, external monitor and USB peripherals and plug in a single thing when I "dock" my laptop. I will take that any day over the awkward Dell and Thinkpad docking stations I see my coworkers use.
- urda 12y ago
  > That is an a typical scenario unless your job requires frequent presentation. I completely agree with this assessment. Even here on HN the majority of users are not giving presentations or even screen sharing. When it does matter, there is often a third party device they have to present from anway. I'll take the adapter not being in the box, as for most users they won't be using it enough to warrant the extra cost.
  - robotresearcher 12y ago
    I agree completely. The top comment in this thread was about wireless connections making wired connections redundant. I want wired video output as I trust it more than wireless. VGA is an inelegant but working solution. Dongle is no problem.
ceejayoz 12y ago
Bring a ChromeCast. Plug it in to an HDMI point, bring a VGA-HDMI adapter, and it'll work fine on your own ad-hoc network.
- niels_olson 12y ago
  I almost thought this was an amazing idea. Except most places venues I'm in don't offer HDMI either.
- sitkack 12y ago
  Idea. ChromeCast like device that can pump out HDMI, DVI, display port and VGA, attach to it over wifi, it has a fallback where it can run the presentation off an SD card while itself acts as a wifi base station. The ChromeCast of presentation hardware.
arihant 12y ago
Not to nitpick, but for a long time, to use a Mac with VGA you had to buy an adapter. Same for HDMI. There is a case that can be made on including this accessory in the box, but VGA cannot be part of that argument. Not for a Mac user. Instead of buying mini DVI to VGA or Lightening to HDMI adapter, just buy this?
- robotresearcher 12y ago
  You are not nitpicking something I am not arguing. I'm happy with a VGA dongle.
rsynnott 12y ago
So, er, carry a VGA dongle? I mean, most laptops don't have actual VGA ports these days.
- robotresearcher 12y ago
  Yep, happy with that. I was responding to the parent comment that said roughly "with wireless everything, who needs wired ports?". Wireless is usually OK in my living room but I would not count on wireless video working reliably in a conference room with 500 people on their laptop/phone. Shudder.

integraton 12y ago

That particular use case is apparently not expected by Apple to be a common use case for the target market of this particular device. Fortunately, other devices with different features focused on different usage patterns are available for purchase from Apple and other manufacturers. It's strange that this is at all controversial.

robotresearcher 12y ago
On the contrary, it is totally expected. They sell a dongle with VGA out.
- integraton 12y ago
  If it was expected to be a common use case, it would be included as a core feature. Furthermore, the number of people for whom "show[ing] up to give a presentation anywhere in the world" is a common use case is likely very small. I would go so far as to speculate that people in that category are greatly outnumbered by people across all demographics who use their laptops for sending emails, browsing the web, using productivity software, organizing media, and doing other software-centric tasks.
  - robotresearcher 12y ago
    Cars do not come with child seats included as a core feature. Would you say that transporting under-10s is not a common use case of a family car?
  - mintplant 12y ago
    > Furthermore, the number of people for whom "show[ing] up to give a presentation anywhere in the world" is a common use case is likely very small. College students? It's always a big hassle finding a dongle whenever a MacBook user has to give a presentation in class.

gedejong 12y ago

True, but since Macs have lost the ports, better venues are finally starting to cater to modern standards. Personally, I think VGA is an abomination and people should react a bit stronger to be invited to a venue and having to deal with standards from 1987.

robotresearcher 12y ago
I think guests should graciously work with whatever hosts provide, as long as it works.
- acveilleux 12y ago
  The thing is, it doesn't. It requires the device to be able to do a Digital to Analog conversion. In modern graphics chipsets, that capability is only needed for legacy compatibility with CRTs and old projectors. If you speak VGA to a projector or any flat panel monitor, you're really just feeding an Analog to Digital converter. It's nuts.
- largote 12y ago
  VGA has lower quality at high resolutions than something like DVI, DisplayPort, or HDMI. Then again, if the place still has a VGA connector, it's unlikely the projector is high-resolution.
  - robotresearcher 12y ago
    Yes. So as a guest do you make the best of it or whine that there are better things available?
    - saraid216 12y ago
      Being a good host is also kind of a thing, FYI, and part of that is going to the effort of making life nice for your guest. If you're going to harp on hospitality, please remember it cuts both ways.

sswaner 12y ago

That is an atypical scenario unless your job requires frequent presentation. Even then, you are used to having an adapter in your bag or pocket. To me, this is a great tradeoff: I get a lighter and thinner laptop for 100% of my computing, the downside being an adapter when I return the the dark ages of VGA connectors. In fact, for my MacBook Pro, I will have fewer connections. Instead of power and Thunderbolt, I will just get one of the connectors that bridges power, external monitor and USB peripherals and plug in a single thing when I "dock" my laptop. I will take that any day over the awkward Dell and Thinkpad docking stations I see my coworkers use.

urda 12y ago
> That is an a typical scenario unless your job requires frequent presentation. I completely agree with this assessment. Even here on HN the majority of users are not giving presentations or even screen sharing. When it does matter, there is often a third party device they have to present from anway. I'll take the adapter not being in the box, as for most users they won't be using it enough to warrant the extra cost.
- robotresearcher 12y ago
  I agree completely. The top comment in this thread was about wireless connections making wired connections redundant. I want wired video output as I trust it more than wireless. VGA is an inelegant but working solution. Dongle is no problem.

ceejayoz 12y ago

Bring a ChromeCast. Plug it in to an HDMI point, bring a VGA-HDMI adapter, and it'll work fine on your own ad-hoc network.

niels_olson 12y ago
I almost thought this was an amazing idea. Except most places venues I'm in don't offer HDMI either.
sitkack 12y ago
Idea. ChromeCast like device that can pump out HDMI, DVI, display port and VGA, attach to it over wifi, it has a fallback where it can run the presentation off an SD card while itself acts as a wifi base station. The ChromeCast of presentation hardware.

arihant 12y ago

Not to nitpick, but for a long time, to use a Mac with VGA you had to buy an adapter. Same for HDMI. There is a case that can be made on including this accessory in the box, but VGA cannot be part of that argument. Not for a Mac user. Instead of buying mini DVI to VGA or Lightening to HDMI adapter, just buy this?

robotresearcher 12y ago
You are not nitpicking something I am not arguing. I'm happy with a VGA dongle.

rsynnott 12y ago

So, er, carry a VGA dongle? I mean, most laptops don't have actual VGA ports these days.

robotresearcher 12y ago
Yep, happy with that. I was responding to the parent comment that said roughly "with wireless everything, who needs wired ports?". Wireless is usually OK in my living room but I would not count on wireless video working reliably in a conference room with 500 people on their laptop/phone. Shudder.