7 ms·

You aren't Oracle's customer. The Fortune 1000 are their customers. Oracle doesn't care about nerd outrage, the developer community, or end users. Former Oracl

You aren't Oracle's customer. The Fortune 1000 are their customers. Oracle doesn't care about nerd outrage, the developer community, or end users. Former Oracle employee, via acquisition. Horrible place to work. This post is my own opinion and does not relflect insider or confidential information from Oracle.

kossmoboleat 12y ago
I don't think any customer would like this.
- gtufano 12y ago
  As a former Oracle employee (also there via acquisition) I can confirm that they don't care at all about anything but the money. If adware makes money, that's OK for them. And, yes, they don't care about nerd outrage and I'm also sure that CxOs of Fortune 1000 companies don't care about adware (or us) too. Even if they care (and they probably not), they cannot afford to avoid Oracle DB and/or Java in any case. I'm sure they try in many ways to avoid to spend the insane amount of money Oracle products cost. Ah, and yes: it is an awful place to work. For the same reason: they don't care about anything but money... Employees are COGs, nothing more, nothing less. If you find the right niche, you can live a quiet salaried life there for some years, btw... like probably in any other giant company.
  - gentlebend 12y ago
    Anyone care to explain how they somehow haven't ruined VirtualBox yet?
    - hrktb 12y ago
      It's on the way. The performance and feature gap between VMWare and Virtualbox is widening everyday.
  - rogerbinns 12y ago
    I highly recommend a section of Bryan Cantrill's talk where he covers Oracle - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc&t=2100 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc&t=2100 lasts two or three minutes.
    - easytiger 12y ago
      For someone who can't watch videos, can you summarise?
      - Gibbon1 12y ago
        Listen, and understand! That Ellisonator is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you give it money.
- api 12y ago
  On the contrary, ask.com is quite happy with this. They are paying Oracle, therefore they are the customer. You are not. This is really tragic, since the Java language and VM are nice pieces of technology. Unfortunately Oracle is killing them. I'd never use them for a new project now.
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    Indeed. JVM used to be widely regarded as crap, and Java as a slow, bloated language. And while Java may still be a bit bloated, it's no longer slow, and JVM became an awesome piece of tech, bringing tons of real advances in things like garbage collection algorithms, and supporting a nice ecosystem of very powerful languages. So while Java managed to fix its reputation itself, Oracle is doing everything in their power to break it again.
    - api 12y ago
      At least we have Ruby, Python, Node, and OpenJDK. They can't ruin every ecosystem.
      - TeMPOraL 12y ago
        Come to look at it, you have to work really hard to ruin a programming language. Kudos to Oracle for figuring out how to reach this almost impossible goal. s/.
  - mike_hearn 12y ago
    I'd never use them for a new project now. Why not? There's a tool called javapackager that makes a self contained app install for Linux, Mac, Windows that doesn't require the user to install the JRE, if you're doing desktop projects. For servers this stuff is irrelevant anyway. Java is mostly open source too, so if you wanted to make your own system JRE installer setup, I guess you could (though OpenJDK isn't identical to the Oracle JRE).
mostelato 12y ago
Why is it a horrible place to work?
- tljr 12y ago
  Larry, that you?
- xenadu02 12y ago
  * Developers are on a five year laptop replacement cycle. * You will take the corporate standard laptop and like it. * You will take the corporate standard screen and like it. * You will take the one corporate standard virtual machine you are allocated and like it. * Everything moves slowly, even for a corporate bureaucracy. * None of the above applies to Sales - they can have whatever they want whenever they want, including brand new MacBook Pros yearly. (That says a lot about priorities) * Stack-ranking system that tries to force managers to give 1/3 of the team bad rankings every year. In theory the top 1/3 are supposed to get bonuses/options, but in practice managers just spread the pain around so even as a top-performer I got screwed. * Pay used to be kinda average, but now that the wage fixing cartel was shut down and wages have risen it makes Oracle look hilariously low. * Lots of mandates from on high about what technologies to use * Above mentioned technologies are heavily designed by architecture astronauts; if it makes the install 8 GB and take 15 hours all the better to push customers to consulting services. Lots of XXXFactory classes and useless abstractions. * Be forced to tell a customer you can't restore your copy of their database to test with because ProdDev IT won't give you NAS space to store it (not that it would be fast enough to be usable anyway) * Everything interesting or good for customers will get massive pushback; the focus is on checkboxes that CTOs can understand * Manager turf wars and pompous blowhards abound, all looking to carve out a nice little kingdom to lord over. It's a place to go earn a basic salary until you retire. After the acquisition, everything got much worse. If your company is acquired by Oracle, plan your exit strategy and stay just long enough to cash out whatever options you have. If a company you rely on is acquired by Oracle, look for an alternative immediately. They will eventually strangle you, even unintentionally just by neglect. Never put yourself in the position of relying on Oracle unless you're on the Fortune 1000 list. Again, all my personal opinion and does not rely on any confidential or non-public information. I was just a developer and have no knowledge of strategic decisions at Oracle.
organsnyder 12y ago
I can't imagine that the Java installer asking to install the Ask.com toolbar on a Fortune 1000 CEO's home computer is terribly good marketing, though.
- drzaiusapelord 12y ago
  Those guys don't touch their machines or ever install anything. IT pushes out Java from an extracted MSI (yes oracle wont even publish the MSI, you need to rip it out of the exe). Its small company and home users who deal with this crap. No one cares about them, thus toolbars and crapware.
  - doah78 12y ago
    Actually, you don't even need the msi, unless that is the only mode you have for installation. Can use the java package with a /s switch and then use the deployment.properties file with custom configs in the link below to disable many features for java. http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/jweb/jcp/properties.html http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/jweb/j...
    - drzaiusapelord 12y ago
      Visit /r/sysadmin and ask how well that works. Oracle makes undocumented changes and breaks things all the time. So you can have the proper settings to ignore toolbars, but randomly they'll install. Whoops. Who at Oracle do you complain to? MSI's are just safer/simpler/easier to test/easier to deploy. The fact that they hide it is pretty unforgivable.
      - doah78 12y ago
        If they are installing, you are using the wrong installer. The one from the developers section on oracle's website does not include these toolbar's. Yes, msi's are easier to work with and many companies do not provide them, not just Oracle, but when you are given lemon's you make lemonade. Especially since complaining to oracle will get you no where.

kossmoboleat 12y ago

I don't think any customer would like this.

gtufano 12y ago
As a former Oracle employee (also there via acquisition) I can confirm that they don't care at all about anything but the money. If adware makes money, that's OK for them. And, yes, they don't care about nerd outrage and I'm also sure that CxOs of Fortune 1000 companies don't care about adware (or us) too. Even if they care (and they probably not), they cannot afford to avoid Oracle DB and/or Java in any case. I'm sure they try in many ways to avoid to spend the insane amount of money Oracle products cost. Ah, and yes: it is an awful place to work. For the same reason: they don't care about anything but money... Employees are COGs, nothing more, nothing less. If you find the right niche, you can live a quiet salaried life there for some years, btw... like probably in any other giant company.
- gentlebend 12y ago
  Anyone care to explain how they somehow haven't ruined VirtualBox yet?
  - hrktb 12y ago
    It's on the way. The performance and feature gap between VMWare and Virtualbox is widening everyday.
- rogerbinns 12y ago
  I highly recommend a section of Bryan Cantrill's talk where he covers Oracle - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc&t=2100 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc&t=2100 lasts two or three minutes.
  - easytiger 12y ago
    For someone who can't watch videos, can you summarise?
    - Gibbon1 12y ago
      Listen, and understand! That Ellisonator is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you give it money.
api 12y ago
On the contrary, ask.com is quite happy with this. They are paying Oracle, therefore they are the customer. You are not. This is really tragic, since the Java language and VM are nice pieces of technology. Unfortunately Oracle is killing them. I'd never use them for a new project now.
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  Indeed. JVM used to be widely regarded as crap, and Java as a slow, bloated language. And while Java may still be a bit bloated, it's no longer slow, and JVM became an awesome piece of tech, bringing tons of real advances in things like garbage collection algorithms, and supporting a nice ecosystem of very powerful languages. So while Java managed to fix its reputation itself, Oracle is doing everything in their power to break it again.
  - api 12y ago
    At least we have Ruby, Python, Node, and OpenJDK. They can't ruin every ecosystem.
    - TeMPOraL 12y ago
      Come to look at it, you have to work really hard to ruin a programming language. Kudos to Oracle for figuring out how to reach this almost impossible goal. s/.
- mike_hearn 12y ago
  I'd never use them for a new project now. Why not? There's a tool called javapackager that makes a self contained app install for Linux, Mac, Windows that doesn't require the user to install the JRE, if you're doing desktop projects. For servers this stuff is irrelevant anyway. Java is mostly open source too, so if you wanted to make your own system JRE installer setup, I guess you could (though OpenJDK isn't identical to the Oracle JRE).

mostelato 12y ago

Why is it a horrible place to work?

tljr 12y ago
Larry, that you?
xenadu02 12y ago
* Developers are on a five year laptop replacement cycle. * You will take the corporate standard laptop and like it. * You will take the corporate standard screen and like it. * You will take the one corporate standard virtual machine you are allocated and like it. * Everything moves slowly, even for a corporate bureaucracy. * None of the above applies to Sales - they can have whatever they want whenever they want, including brand new MacBook Pros yearly. (That says a lot about priorities) * Stack-ranking system that tries to force managers to give 1/3 of the team bad rankings every year. In theory the top 1/3 are supposed to get bonuses/options, but in practice managers just spread the pain around so even as a top-performer I got screwed. * Pay used to be kinda average, but now that the wage fixing cartel was shut down and wages have risen it makes Oracle look hilariously low. * Lots of mandates from on high about what technologies to use * Above mentioned technologies are heavily designed by architecture astronauts; if it makes the install 8 GB and take 15 hours all the better to push customers to consulting services. Lots of XXXFactory classes and useless abstractions. * Be forced to tell a customer you can't restore your copy of their database to test with because ProdDev IT won't give you NAS space to store it (not that it would be fast enough to be usable anyway) * Everything interesting or good for customers will get massive pushback; the focus is on checkboxes that CTOs can understand * Manager turf wars and pompous blowhards abound, all looking to carve out a nice little kingdom to lord over. It's a place to go earn a basic salary until you retire. After the acquisition, everything got much worse. If your company is acquired by Oracle, plan your exit strategy and stay just long enough to cash out whatever options you have. If a company you rely on is acquired by Oracle, look for an alternative immediately. They will eventually strangle you, even unintentionally just by neglect. Never put yourself in the position of relying on Oracle unless you're on the Fortune 1000 list. Again, all my personal opinion and does not rely on any confidential or non-public information. I was just a developer and have no knowledge of strategic decisions at Oracle.

organsnyder 12y ago

I can't imagine that the Java installer asking to install the Ask.com toolbar on a Fortune 1000 CEO's home computer is terribly good marketing, though.

drzaiusapelord 12y ago
Those guys don't touch their machines or ever install anything. IT pushes out Java from an extracted MSI (yes oracle wont even publish the MSI, you need to rip it out of the exe). Its small company and home users who deal with this crap. No one cares about them, thus toolbars and crapware.
- doah78 12y ago
  Actually, you don't even need the msi, unless that is the only mode you have for installation. Can use the java package with a /s switch and then use the deployment.properties file with custom configs in the link below to disable many features for java. http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/jweb/jcp/properties.html http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/jweb/j...
  - drzaiusapelord 12y ago
    Visit /r/sysadmin and ask how well that works. Oracle makes undocumented changes and breaks things all the time. So you can have the proper settings to ignore toolbars, but randomly they'll install. Whoops. Who at Oracle do you complain to? MSI's are just safer/simpler/easier to test/easier to deploy. The fact that they hide it is pretty unforgivable.
    - doah78 12y ago
      If they are installing, you are using the wrong installer. The one from the developers section on oracle's website does not include these toolbar's. Yes, msi's are easier to work with and many companies do not provide them, not just Oracle, but when you are given lemon's you make lemonade. Especially since complaining to oracle will get you no where.