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How much $ does one make with this kind of crapware-bundling? Like how much would i get for 1000 toolbar installs?

by sauere 12y ago

saganus 12y ago
I think the point is not for the user to make money, but the people bundling the toolbar. I think ask.com pays whoever bundles their toolbar so it's basically advertising money, at least it seems like that for me.
- takeda 12y ago
  That's what he is asking: How much money Oracle gets per install?
- dtparr 12y ago
  Yes, I'm fairly certain that's what the parent meant. If he was running a company doing the bundling, how much would he get paid if his bundle installed the toolbar 1000 times, now how much would he as an end user get if he installed it 1000 times on his own machines.
  - saganus 12y ago
    Aha! that makes more sense. I read that as if the user would get money for using ask.com toolbar. But yeah, thanks to both of you. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure if ask.com is willing to bundle their toolbar with any product. Maybe they select only high-volume products?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
actsasbuffoon 12y ago
Unfortunately, I imagine it'd be a fair bit of money. Many toolbars track every site you visit, how long you're there, what you type on the site (including personally identifying information), and a host of other Orwellian things. I can't imagine anyone feels good about trying to trick their users into installing this crap. If the money wasn't good, only completely amoral psychopaths would do it. As it stands, the financial incentives bring it to the point where greedy asshats are also willing to get in on the action.
- astrodust 12y ago
  Define "a fair bit of money", please. It's telling that Facebook, a company that's not known for treating their users as anything other than a commodity to be packaged and sold, would never stoop to something like this. In an era where a photo sharing site sells for over a billion dollars, Oracle must be raking in hundreds of millions on this deal for it to be worth the damage to their Java brand.
  - wnevets 12y ago
    facebook is probably able to get data through other means. Their like button javascript on half of the internet for example.
    - astrodust 12y ago
      Do any of these "other means" involve installing shady software on people's computers? They've had many opportunities to do stuff like that with their iOS and Android apps but have never dared.
      - wnevets 12y ago
        My point is they wouldnt need to install shady software on your machine. They're able to track you with their like button.
        ripb 12y ago
        I find it amazing that people seemingly don't know that Facebook tracks you across the web through those embedded Like buttons, and more amazing that many who do know don't seem to care.
        astrodust 12y ago
        There's a reason I have the equivalent of "127.0.0.1 facebook.com" in my /etc/hosts file.
belorn 12y ago
Given how much money there is in malware, the low risk of getting caught, and the zero risk of legal repercussions, how would you think the incentives looks like? Lenovo got caught and the legal actions so far been almost non-existent. If this action enable someone to get a raise or a promotion, the final $ amount doesn't need to be very high. just enough to be deemed a financial successful project.
JohnTHaller 12y ago
Bundleware... Pay Per Install (PPI) in industry terms... can make you a lot of money. I regularly get offers of up to $2 per install to bundle things with PortableApps.com. I could make millions in just a few months even at more industry standard payment levels. It would kill the project and hurt my reputation, of course. But it can be tempting when you run a free open source project and you're falling behind on your rent.
- bambax 12y ago
  > But it can be tempting when you run a free open source project and you're falling behind on your rent. Which isn't the case for Oracle AFAIK... ;-)
  - JohnTHaller 12y ago
    Google likely pays Oracle quite a bit for the default bundleware installations of Chrome. It's a way for Oracle to profit off the userbase installing Java for free and for Google to increase Chrome's share. Fun fact, Google pays Adobe a lot of money to bundle default installations of Chrome with Flash downloads as well.
    - Lx1oG-AWb6h_ZG0 12y ago
      That's weird... doesn't Chrome come with a custom build of Flash already? So if you download flash, you download Chrome, which in turn downloads flash?
      - JohnTHaller 12y ago
        Yes and No. Chrome comes with its own version of Flash installed. So, when you try to download Flash for your copy of Firefox, it automatically downloads and installs Chrome (with its own copy of Flash) unless you uncheck the box in the middle of the download page. Adobe doesn't care, they get paid by Google. And Google pays to increase Chrome's market share.
- tomovo 12y ago

How much $ does one make with this kind of crapware-bundling? Like how much would i get for 1000 toolbar installs?

by sauere 12y ago

How much $ does one make with this kind of crapware-bundling? Like how much would i get for 1000 toolbar installs?

I think the point is not for the user to make money, but the people bundling the toolbar. I think ask.com pays whoever bundles their toolbar so it's basically advertising money, at least it seems like that for me.

takeda 12y ago
That's what he is asking: How much money Oracle gets per install?
dtparr 12y ago
Yes, I'm fairly certain that's what the parent meant. If he was running a company doing the bundling, how much would he get paid if his bundle installed the toolbar 1000 times, now how much would he as an end user get if he installed it 1000 times on his own machines.
- saganus 12y ago
  Aha! that makes more sense. I read that as if the user would get money for using ask.com toolbar. But yeah, thanks to both of you. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure if ask.com is willing to bundle their toolbar with any product. Maybe they select only high-volume products?
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

actsasbuffoon 12y ago

Unfortunately, I imagine it'd be a fair bit of money. Many toolbars track every site you visit, how long you're there, what you type on the site (including personally identifying information), and a host of other Orwellian things. I can't imagine anyone feels good about trying to trick their users into installing this crap. If the money wasn't good, only completely amoral psychopaths would do it. As it stands, the financial incentives bring it to the point where greedy asshats are also willing to get in on the action.

astrodust 12y ago
Define "a fair bit of money", please. It's telling that Facebook, a company that's not known for treating their users as anything other than a commodity to be packaged and sold, would never stoop to something like this. In an era where a photo sharing site sells for over a billion dollars, Oracle must be raking in hundreds of millions on this deal for it to be worth the damage to their Java brand.
- wnevets 12y ago
  facebook is probably able to get data through other means. Their like button javascript on half of the internet for example.
  - astrodust 12y ago
    Do any of these "other means" involve installing shady software on people's computers? They've had many opportunities to do stuff like that with their iOS and Android apps but have never dared.
    - wnevets 12y ago
      My point is they wouldnt need to install shady software on your machine. They're able to track you with their like button.
      - ripb 12y ago
        I find it amazing that people seemingly don't know that Facebook tracks you across the web through those embedded Like buttons, and more amazing that many who do know don't seem to care.
        astrodust 12y ago
        There's a reason I have the equivalent of "127.0.0.1 facebook.com" in my /etc/hosts file.

belorn 12y ago

Given how much money there is in malware, the low risk of getting caught, and the zero risk of legal repercussions, how would you think the incentives looks like? Lenovo got caught and the legal actions so far been almost non-existent. If this action enable someone to get a raise or a promotion, the final $ amount doesn't need to be very high. just enough to be deemed a financial successful project.

JohnTHaller 12y ago

Bundleware... Pay Per Install (PPI) in industry terms... can make you a lot of money. I regularly get offers of up to $2 per install to bundle things with PortableApps.com. I could make millions in just a few months even at more industry standard payment levels. It would kill the project and hurt my reputation, of course. But it can be tempting when you run a free open source project and you're falling behind on your rent.

bambax 12y ago
> But it can be tempting when you run a free open source project and you're falling behind on your rent. Which isn't the case for Oracle AFAIK... ;-)
- JohnTHaller 12y ago
  Google likely pays Oracle quite a bit for the default bundleware installations of Chrome. It's a way for Oracle to profit off the userbase installing Java for free and for Google to increase Chrome's share. Fun fact, Google pays Adobe a lot of money to bundle default installations of Chrome with Flash downloads as well.
  - Lx1oG-AWb6h_ZG0 12y ago
    That's weird... doesn't Chrome come with a custom build of Flash already? So if you download flash, you download Chrome, which in turn downloads flash?
    - JohnTHaller 12y ago
      Yes and No. Chrome comes with its own version of Flash installed. So, when you try to download Flash for your copy of Firefox, it automatically downloads and installs Chrome (with its own copy of Flash) unless you uncheck the box in the middle of the download page. Adobe doesn't care, they get paid by Google. And Google pays to increase Chrome's market share.
tomovo 12y ago