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I will go a different, likely even more unpopular direction. The article stated the problem clearly, there are too many graduating with the proper credentials

I will go a different, likely even more unpopular direction. The article stated the problem clearly, there are too many graduating with the proper credentials who want these jobs. Resorting to union representation is the sign of a system where oversupply being met with stubborn resistance to that fact. This is not to say that schools are not middle or top heavy. Education as a whole has become far to expensive for the value of the education provided. This is because of the simple fact money is loaned nearly without question to what studies the students want or receive. The real fix is reigning in the loans. Set costs either at the class or degree level and have colleges comply with it to have students eligible to receive the federal loans to attend that school. The government already restricts cost in the payouts for medical treatments and such, there is little reason it cannot do this in the realm of education if its the one providing the funds. Just like how government money brings along rules with how students are treated so can it do with how degrees if not courses are valued. Surely many colleges will step up to the plate to offer acceptable cost degrees. There is too much money on the table for them to ignore it. Still as he points out, there is oversupply because colleges are not required to tell students that while there may be jobs they don't pay what students expect nor pay what they once did. Firing others to raise that pay is not the solution, the solution is guiding students into good careers adn reigning in the costs of obtaining the degrees necessary

stevesearer 12y ago
Are you saying that the government should put a cap on tuition costs? So instead of a student spending $40k on an English degree, that degree might be capped at $20k or something to that effect?
- TheOtherHobbes 12y ago
  Ideally the government should scrap all private tuition costs. That's how it works in most of Europe, and there doesn't seem to be a problem with the quality of learning or the facilities. That's how it used to work in the UK, and the main result was a strong middle class with plenty of disposable income. But... not everyone likes the idea of a strong middle class with plenty of disposable income. So now we have financial-rape loans and a weakened economy - a combination guaranteed to create huge default/delinquency issues over the next decade or two.
  - jiggy2011 12y ago
    The student loan system allows more people from every social class to go to university and join the middle class. Loan repayments are linked to income after graduation so nobody has to pay back more than they can afford.
    - caseysoftware 12y ago
      Your "and join the middle class" step isn't happening. There are two classes of people who graduate from college at this point. The first graduate with degrees and skills that are useful - or can be made useful - in the professional world and start working immediately. The second graduate with degrees that are useful for the sole purpose of teaching others those exact same topics and nothing else. They get paid a fraction of what the first group is. While we need some teachers, professors, etc, the low pay in these roles point at an overabundance. If there were less people seeking those roles, recruiting them would become a priority and pay would rise. As we're seeing in software development every day.
      - jiggy2011 12y ago
        That's a problem caused by people making poor choices rather than a problem with loan financing.
    - sdenton4 12y ago
      You know what works even better to up the system to people from diverse backgrounds? Direct payment of tuition costs by the government. It's well documented that the rising tuition has reduced access for people from lower income families. Students have no power to negotiate tuition costs with the politically entrenched adminstrative class. Politicians, on the other hand, would have the power and career training for that kind of negotiation.
      - jiggy2011 12y ago
        In the UK increases in tuition fees (by up to 3x) has had no effect on the diversity of university applicants. This is because repayments are income linked (and have an income floor) so that a graduate on a low income makes no repayments at all. Only those who earn a large salary will make significant repayments. If tuition is funded by the government then this will force those without a university education to subsidise those who do go to university. Also university places would have to be limited to control costs.
superuser2 12y ago
If you are offering elimination of credit availability as a solution to the oversupply of professors, fine, but let's be clear that you believe wealth of parents is a good metric by which to decide who does and doesn't get to be a professor. Let that sink in. If you believe that colleges will lower costs to meet the lower supply of tuition money, then we'd be looking at an even larger oversupply - more people would be able to afford college. Also, let's keep in mind that when you dump every liberal arts major into engineering and computer science, engineering and computer science graduates stop being hard to find and become worthless.
- bsilvereagle 12y ago
  Any college offering an engineering degree that wants to maintain their ABET certification also has to graduate a certain number of their students; pumping unqualified or uninterested students into these programs leads to watering down of curriculum - further making the degree worthless.
- philwelch 12y ago
  > Also, let's keep in mind that when you dump every liberal arts major into engineering and computer science, engineering and computer science graduates stop being hard to find and become worthless. When you dump every liberal arts major into engineering and computer science, most of them wash out.
  - nmrm2 12y ago
    > most of them wash out. Having taught a fair share of liberal arts majors in intro CS courses, I am absolutely certain that there is essentially no difference in skill between people who choose to major in CS and people who choose to major in the liberal arts.
    - philwelch 12y ago
      At least the ones who self-select into taking intro CS courses.
pXMzR2A 12y ago
> Resorting to union representation is the sign of organizing to get fair compensation.
- JoshTriplett 12y ago
  There are too many people seeking too few jobs. Fair compensation would thus be lower. "Fair" does not only mean "fair" for one side.
Spooky23 12y ago
I'd say the issue at hand is that as a society we have an over saturation of universities and a lack of vocational training. We churn out 3rd tier MBAs and Attorneys by the dozen, but you cannot find a plumber with a clue under 50 to save your life.

stevesearer 12y ago

Are you saying that the government should put a cap on tuition costs? So instead of a student spending $40k on an English degree, that degree might be capped at $20k or something to that effect?

TheOtherHobbes 12y ago
Ideally the government should scrap all private tuition costs. That's how it works in most of Europe, and there doesn't seem to be a problem with the quality of learning or the facilities. That's how it used to work in the UK, and the main result was a strong middle class with plenty of disposable income. But... not everyone likes the idea of a strong middle class with plenty of disposable income. So now we have financial-rape loans and a weakened economy - a combination guaranteed to create huge default/delinquency issues over the next decade or two.
- jiggy2011 12y ago
  The student loan system allows more people from every social class to go to university and join the middle class. Loan repayments are linked to income after graduation so nobody has to pay back more than they can afford.
  - caseysoftware 12y ago
    Your "and join the middle class" step isn't happening. There are two classes of people who graduate from college at this point. The first graduate with degrees and skills that are useful - or can be made useful - in the professional world and start working immediately. The second graduate with degrees that are useful for the sole purpose of teaching others those exact same topics and nothing else. They get paid a fraction of what the first group is. While we need some teachers, professors, etc, the low pay in these roles point at an overabundance. If there were less people seeking those roles, recruiting them would become a priority and pay would rise. As we're seeing in software development every day.
    - jiggy2011 12y ago
      That's a problem caused by people making poor choices rather than a problem with loan financing.
  - sdenton4 12y ago
    You know what works even better to up the system to people from diverse backgrounds? Direct payment of tuition costs by the government. It's well documented that the rising tuition has reduced access for people from lower income families. Students have no power to negotiate tuition costs with the politically entrenched adminstrative class. Politicians, on the other hand, would have the power and career training for that kind of negotiation.
    - jiggy2011 12y ago
      In the UK increases in tuition fees (by up to 3x) has had no effect on the diversity of university applicants. This is because repayments are income linked (and have an income floor) so that a graduate on a low income makes no repayments at all. Only those who earn a large salary will make significant repayments. If tuition is funded by the government then this will force those without a university education to subsidise those who do go to university. Also university places would have to be limited to control costs.

superuser2 12y ago

If you are offering elimination of credit availability as a solution to the oversupply of professors, fine, but let's be clear that you believe wealth of parents is a good metric by which to decide who does and doesn't get to be a professor. Let that sink in. If you believe that colleges will lower costs to meet the lower supply of tuition money, then we'd be looking at an even larger oversupply - more people would be able to afford college. Also, let's keep in mind that when you dump every liberal arts major into engineering and computer science, engineering and computer science graduates stop being hard to find and become worthless.

bsilvereagle 12y ago
Any college offering an engineering degree that wants to maintain their ABET certification also has to graduate a certain number of their students; pumping unqualified or uninterested students into these programs leads to watering down of curriculum - further making the degree worthless.
philwelch 12y ago
> Also, let's keep in mind that when you dump every liberal arts major into engineering and computer science, engineering and computer science graduates stop being hard to find and become worthless. When you dump every liberal arts major into engineering and computer science, most of them wash out.
- nmrm2 12y ago
  > most of them wash out. Having taught a fair share of liberal arts majors in intro CS courses, I am absolutely certain that there is essentially no difference in skill between people who choose to major in CS and people who choose to major in the liberal arts.
  - philwelch 12y ago
    At least the ones who self-select into taking intro CS courses.

pXMzR2A 12y ago

> Resorting to union representation is the sign of organizing to get fair compensation.

JoshTriplett 12y ago
There are too many people seeking too few jobs. Fair compensation would thus be lower. "Fair" does not only mean "fair" for one side.

Spooky23 12y ago

I'd say the issue at hand is that as a society we have an over saturation of universities and a lack of vocational training. We churn out 3rd tier MBAs and Attorneys by the dozen, but you cannot find a plumber with a clue under 50 to save your life.